VA - Hannah Elizabeth Graham, 18, Charlottesville, 13 Sept 2014 - #10

[blefuscu]

You'd be surprised. No matter what story he tells, he still IS the last person known to be with Hannah. So they would get a warrant to search his car and place 'to be safe' whether they believed his story or not.

They could have played it off much better than this and had at least a chance of getting him to talk.

He had a chance to talk before the police confirmed his name. He walked out of the police station and not long later drove in a reckless manner to escape the police tail of him. Longo and his staff are no doubt frustrated that JM is not willing to help them advance the case. They couldn't arrest him without evidence that a. A crime had been committed and b. He had committed that crime.

 

[fiorita]

I believe he went there to ask about getting a lawyer. I think he believed that of all places, the police station would set him up with one for free or at least could give him advice on how to get one for free. He probably thought that was his constitutional right. He probably assumed he'd have been given a lawyer. And once they got one, he and his family may have planned to give some statements about that night.

I don't think he'd have taken his family members with him if he was just asking about when he was getting his car back.

 

[cluciano63]

Also, it's RESPECTFUL to call people by their proper names.

IMO

Agree, but not so respectful the way some have been called out for errors this weekend, all caps or worse. Heather Graham is a pretty famous actress and some may be familiar with her name just type Heather by mistake. There are nicer ways to correct posters, imo.

 

[bogart64]

IMO Longo has not given us a lot of information. In the beginning most of his info was wrong (reflections, BG descriptions etc) and now he is so vague and dramatic. We still dont know anything more than from when the video was released.

In fairness to Longo .... the BG description was said to be what the WG gave... it has not been stated whether the WG's statement was incorrect or LE misspoke.

I feel people will ALWAYS find something to complain about it. If they were not holding interviews to provide information and kept everything tight lipped everyone would assume they had nothing or didn't want to really find her, but because they are putting information out as much as possible, it's perceived as sloppy LE work. Also there are hundreds of people working on this case and Longo won't know every single step that is made sometimes until after it's made so let's give LE some credit. They are working around the clock trying to find Hannah. If this was your sister you would want the passion they have!

 

[Wysteria]

I have no idea. Was it lapsed already?

I don't know. I presume it was lapsed.

I just find it odd that the POI went on that day; taking into consideration all of his (POI) other behavior and what is/was going on in his life at the time he went to the DMV.

On the other hand; some members have made very good points that it's not weird to them.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that I got a red flag when I first read the information here. Photo ID for a passport maybe?

 

[fiorita]

My point is I don't think he went there for THAT reason. Doesn't make sense (and...he had probably experienced a bit of the justice system by then enough to know how things worked.)

But I think he went there for A reason.

So my response to you, why do you think he 1) Went there, and 2) Asked for an attorney?

I say it is to talk, or to find out how to get his car back.

See my post #505. I forgot to put the quote in it.

 

[cluciano63]

He had a chance to talk before the police confirmed his name. He walked out of the police station and not long later drove in a reckless manner to escape the police tail of him. Longo and his staff are no doubt frustrated that JM is not willing to help them advance the case. They couldn't arrest him without evidence that a. A crime had been committed and b. He had committed that crime.

But why would LE expect JM to give them the evidence to charge him??

 

[Jmm124567]

@Stones, Can you provide an example from this site where someone has alleged that JM is a POI because of his race and for no other reason? I think this is a straw man argument that could be put to bed.

There is not one example.

 

[Evie Ivy Over]

I'm so curious about what LE could have taken from JM's apartment today. It would seem that if he had anything to connect himself to HG, he would have removed that days ago.

 

[Dixie811]

He had a chance to talk before the police confirmed his name. He walked out of the police station and not long later drove in a reckless manner to escape the police tail of him. Longo and his staff are no doubt frustrated that JM is not willing to help them advance the case. They couldn't arrest him without evidence that a. A crime had been committed and b. He had committed that crime.

Before LE confirmed his name, they held the press conference baiting the media to print his name and already giving the impression to the public that they believed he was guilty, IMO.

Now I do agree that before LE even identified him themselves (before Thurs night/Fri AM when they arrived with the search warrant for the car) he did have the opportunity to come forward and talk if he saw himself on video footage or was aware that the girl he had been with went missing.

 

[RSC]

Except...now they have a warrant out for his arrest.
Which means, he can't legally just disappear, which he likely could have before.

Agreed. I firmly believe had it not been for his theatrics and over the top ranting, JLM may well have been willing to talk to police and may not have considered asking for an attorney right off the bat. After those 2 press conferences, JLM isn't going to tell them squat. I believe he came to the station wanting to talk with an attorney present, but was advised not to by the attorney. And I wouldn't doubt that part of the reason why he was advised not to was due to Longo's actions. Compare Longo's demeanor to that of the Det Sgt leading the investigation. Night and day. If I was that detective, I'd be right pissed at my Chief.

 

[goldenbear]

A poster earlier in the thread said not one of Websleuth cases turned out to be organized crime but crimes of individuals. Therefore Hannah is somewhere local not really very far away from where she was last seen.

 

[RSC]

They don't. IMO, they are stalling until they get information back from forensics.

But why would LE expect JM to give them the evidence to charge him??

 

[Deba]

Something or spooky coincidence but I saw this mentioned on twitter. Don't bite my head off lol
(mods delete if necessary)

Alexis Murphy walking past an orange car at the service station

View attachment 59672

http://www.wset.com/story/23085986/new-surveillance-pictures-of-alexis-murphy-fbi-searches-home-for-cellphone

This same photo of Alexis, along with the photo of the back of the orange car confiscated by police in the recent Hannah disappearance, was posted on the Find Alexis Murphy FB page earlier today. It was later deleted along with comments.

 

[Emaa]

'

We need to get the poor guy a calendar!

His Birthday is in December!

'

You may renew your driver's license as early as one year prior to the expiration date on your license.

http://www.dmv.state.va.us/drivers/#renewing.asp

 

[bakerlady]

I recall reading or hearing in a press conference that the reason Jesse Mathew came to the police station on Saturday was because he wanted to inquire if it was legal for LE to overtly follow him, and LE told him YES, it is legal. He then asked to consult with an attorney, they found him one, they chatted, and then he left.

I can't seem to find a link that works but I am pretty sure Longo said it in the press conference yesterday.

 

[gitana1]

I have seen no potential defamation of JLM either. In fact, LE did not even release his name - it was his grandmother who outed his name to the world with her interview with the Daily Mail reporter.

I think when some feel very strongly and outraged by public statements and the effect those statements may have, they suspect such statements can be actionable.

"Stepped off the face of the earth" was a very poor choice of words in my opinion. Reasonable people could interpret that as a factual disclosure on the one hand or an emotional outburst on the other. Either way, not very helpful under the circumstances. Again, IMO.

But not very helpful to whom? I think to LE and the FBI who are likely guiding LE, that statement is quite helpful. These are psychological pressure tactics. Sometimes they work. I mean, there are loads of studies about how psychology is used in investigations and investigators have a ton of education on the subject.
http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...9otOLOfZxuZpgnMeaoW842g&bvm=bv.75775273,d.cGU

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...xuZpgnMeaoW842g&bvm=bv.75775273,d.cGU&cad=rja

Some are more intelligent and capable than others. It depends. And this chief of police seems to have much more education than the average chief of police. He's an attorney, seems well regarded.

LE generally has reasons for everything they do and they are "chaperoned", usually, by the local DA. In this case, the FBI is involved. It always surprises me when LE is regarded as not more than a local gossip mill. I've seen this in other cases - we sleuthers are better or just as good as LE so we should be given all the info they have (even though divulging it would likely harm the case), they don't know what they're doing, they're grasping at straws, etc.

This is their profession. And this isn't some podunk police department out in the holler. Charlottesville VA is an important, historic city.

I appreciate healthy skepticism and scrutiny is always good. It's what keeps our government officials in line. But I don;t understand why so many tend to think that if these cases aren't quickly solved, LE has failed in their job or that LE must be railroading someone if there isn't an immediate arrest.

I think it is safe to assume LE knows how to do its job until it is clear they are not. That happens (i.e. LE refusing to release the sketch in the Elizabeth Smart case after her sister recalled the perp; LE gaining a false confession in the Riley Fox case; witch hunt of Tonya Craft, etc.), but this is rare in a case so high profile.

And we must understand - this is not your typical pre-DNA "Hey, this guy is the same race as the suspect so we are nabbing him and eyewitnesses are being encouraged to ID him", Innocence Project case. It is clear that JM was seen on the video with Hannah, we haven't heard that she was seen after that with anyone else or alone and he refuses to talk.

I'm very open. I am. But I see nothing out of order in this case yet.

Whoever murdered and/or abducted Hannah is the last person to have seen her before she "stepped off the fave of the earth." Clearly, Longo believe this is JM. Now he has to prove it and so far, he has not been able to even come up with a charge that would keep him in jail for more than a day or two. So to me that is a very strong statement made too early in a case without arrests. He told the world he thinks JM killed Hannah, Imo. That is how I took it. I just can't recall a police chief saying that so
early in a case with evidence not even processed as yet. I found it alarming and unprofessional, but jmo.

It has happened in several cases.

He has no obligation to help police build a case against him.

For a moment, assume he IS innocent and they indeed went their separate ways after Tempo's. BUT he remained the last person seen with Hannah "before she vanished off the face of the earth". Do you really believe the police would move on and scratch him off their suspect list?

Yes. If he spoke to them and they got his DNA, heard his story, gave him a polygraph, why couldn't they clear him?

Of course, they may not clear him despite all that, but they would have no reason to continue to hound him. Now they do. It's that simple.

 

[ClueingForLooks]

Several people seem a bit hung up on the fact that WG was still following several minutes later but while looking at the map today I had a thought:

There's nothing to say the first vid happened at 1:06:59 and the next vid at 1:08:00.

Tuels is mid block so what's to say JM catches up with HG just after the start of the block, wouldn't it look even weirder if WG followed HG to see if she was okay, but then turned and walked the other way as soon as she was approached by someone else? Wouldn't we be picking that to shreds if he had done that!?

Also, what if he was parked at the end of the mall in the parking lot, maybe he wasn't 'following' her in the second video, more that he had been, saw that she seemed to know someone she knew and finished his walk to the car, which coincidentally happened to be in the same direction HG and JM were walking, which was the way he was originally walking anyway before he saw HG.

Plus it's not all that weird to be out by yourself that late by yourself on a Friday night, isn't there a movie theatre near by? Who's to say he didn't go see a 10pm movie, and had just left the theatre after one.

My take on it is that he's innocent, I truly believe there are still decent people who are out there and I think he was just being fatherly in wanting to make sure she was alright in the only way he thought he could. Heck, I know that I've questioned myself when considering helping people, you do not know how someone will react, especially a 'distressed' female, and sometimes just keeping an eye out is all you can do.

This is a great post and I'm not trying to be argumentative. But police say WG said he left or stopped following, didn't they? They didn't say WG said he continued behind them on his way to his car.

Also, was tempo on the way to the parking lot? Would WG have noticed them pop into the bar on his way?

 

[jamicat]

JM seems to have had a lot of experience with the courts and DMV, traffic, that sort of violation. He likely picked up his attorneys, if he got any, from those mulling around the courts. He and his family probably thought due to the seriousness of the situation that he would get a public defender. I don't think they understood that he was not being arrested or accused at that point. JM did get time with an attorney who likely clarified the situation to him and told him he did not have to talk to LE and that he should not. This must have been very confusing to him. I'd have been confused too if police showed up at my place at an off time with a warrent to search and seize my car and search my home, and then wanted to talk to me. I don't think LE gives out much info to anyone when this happens, so my reaction too, would have been to get an attorney. So as an innocent person, I'd not be feeling kindly or cooperative at all towards the police at this point in time, and I don't think anyone would even given the seriousness of the missing person. Yes, I'd selfishly be thinking about myself and be scared out of my mind, paranoid and not at all friendly with the police.

I still don't get how LE got a search warrent for the car, was able to seize it, got search warrent for the apts, and yet can't touch the owner of said car, resident of said apartment.

 

[Jmm124567]

In fairness to Longo .... the BG description was said to be what the WG gave... it has not been stated whether the WG's statement was incorrect or LE misspoke.

I feel people will ALWAYS find something to complain about it. If they were not holding interviews to provide information and kept everything tight lipped everyone would assume they had nothing or didn't want to really find her, but because they are putting information out as much as possible, it's perceived as sloppy LE work. Also there are hundreds of people working on this case and Longo won't know every single step that is made sometimes until after it's made so let's give LE some credit. They are working around the clock trying to find Hannah. If this was your sister you would want the passion they have!

I agree. LE is not going to give the public every single bit of info they have while the case is open. It can compromise the case. They usually don't even share much info with the victims family/friends while the case is open. Everything they are doing is strategic.