VA - Hannah Elizabeth Graham, 18, Charlottesville, 13 Sept 2014 - #10

[CoverMeCagney]

Oh don't I know that. A lifetime of pain. Both Alreetlike and myself have done something really bad in a previous life to get stuck with Newcastle United lol

I've got it worse - I don't even like football but I'm married to a Newcastle United supporter......

 

[Le Singe]

How do you know the dog's name? Are we allowed to sleuth pets?

:laughing: :laughing: :laughing: :laughing: :laughing: omg i'm dying right now

 

[franco]

But if we're all supposed to operate under the assumption that the dude is innocent until proven guilty, why WOULD'NT he help the police advance the case. So many here think this guy is innocent for whatever reason: he doesn't look creepy, he's a good Christian guy, he has a job, he said he left Hannah after Tempo, he coaches youth sports and some people think he's great are some of the reasons I've seen cited here. But it seems like the same people who are saying he is likely innocent are saying, "why should he sit down and help the police charge him. Why would he say anything!"

SO my question is this: is he an innocent good Christian youth sports coach with a job and doesn't happen to look creepy, or is he someone who shouldn't help the police charge him? It can't be both ways, so posters saying both things really confuses me. If he is truly innocent, why WOULDN'T he provide the police with his knowledge of that night? Not only could it help save Hannah's life if she is still alive, but it could also clear his name if he did not do anything to her. The information he provides could lead him to the real perp so why isn't he giving up the info?

as far as I know he did tell them all he says he knows..... Its just not what the police wants to hear. They want to blame him .

I have no idea if he is guilty or innocent , but either way if someone wants to blame you for a crime you did not commit then I would lawyer up.

I did do the crime , I would get a lawyer too.

JLM did speak to the police. He stated they went their separate ways. If that is the truth then there is nothing more he can help them with.

 

[Wahoo123]

just exploring all avenues here, could HG have been looking for a night route bus? What's the schedule of Cville's night route heading back to campus? was she walking in the direction of, or away from, a bus/trolley stop when she walked down the mall? Was she following a route when she was walking, and simply kept walking because no bus was walking? Thanks this if this is at all possible based on your knowledge of Cville

This wasn't the case. Only option is the trolley running from downtown, but it doesn't run after midnight like the University busses do. (It runs along the south end of the downtown area...so she was headed in that general area, but definitely not toward it. But, mostly I can just say that no student is looking to take the trolley to Grounds at 2 AM, just not something that would cross anyone's mind).

Really, one of the first confusing things to me is: Why was Hannah Graham walking in that direction? There just doesn't seem to be an explanation to walk anywhere outside the 14th St/Rugby area. I know most say she was lost/disoriented, and I recognize that's possible...but if so, her direct route from McGrady's to the downtown mall is pretty astounding - there are some confusing intersections there, and she booked it. It appears that she really wanted to get downtown...a place where UVA students generally don't "really want to" go at this hour.

 

[Kas80]

This is my new theory. Hannah left first party to go meet someone downtown at the first bar she stopped at (Mc Grady's? Not positive of the name). She was in a rush because she tried to catch a bus to get there. Missed it so she decided to walk but maybe got a bit lost because it was at night and maybe she was a bit drunk. By the time she got down there whomever she planned to meet was already in the bar and she couldn't get in (probably got carded by the bouncer). So she walked through the area towards the transportation center to go back to campus and saw JM whom she knew. She called to him to say hi and then they walked in that direction together. Then she realized she had to go to the bathroom so they went into Tempo to do that and bought something to be a customer. They left and she walked on to the transportation center and he got in his car and went home. He can't prove that because it was late at night and likely stopped no where else and has no alibi. Something happened to her either before getting on a bus or after getting off near her apartment.

I don't know why exactly but I just feel he was in the wrong place, wrong time. I think Longo saw the resemblance between him and the MH suspect sketch that many of you see and went crazy gung-ho thinking it was going to be HUGE and ran with it.

 

[fiorita]

Discussions end in agreements. We are not done discussing. It's useful to have points of view before coming to an agreement. Decisions made in haste are never good ones.

I'm not trying to be snarky... but previous posts and threads address these questions over and over and both "sides" don't seem to be coming to any sort of agreement.

 

[blefuscu]

I've got it even worse - I don't like football but I'm married to a Newcastle United supporter......

Oh I'm truly sorry for you

 

[carbuff]

just exploring all avenues here, could HG have been looking for a night route bus? What's the schedule of Cville's night route heading back to campus? was she walking in the direction of, or away from, a bus/trolley stop when she walked down the mall? Was she following a route when she was walking, and simply kept walking because no bus was walking? Thanks this if this is at all possible based on your knowledge of Cville

I asked this in the previous thread and didn't get an answer. I think it just got lost in the rush of other posts. But somebody found a screen shot on her Twitter that showed she had a transportation app on her phone.

 

[lateott]

Or she knew him from before, recognized him and called his name so he turned around and said "oh hey Hannah" and put his arm around her waist. Also plausible. Too bad surveillance video doesn't have sound.

Yep, it would be good to know what WG saw and heard as HG and JM approached each other. It would provide important perspective.

I wonder why media never asks the interesting questions at a press conference.

 

[Le Singe]

Or meeting minutes from today, in which we uncovered:

1. Undercover agents had coffee at Starbucks today
2. LE uses black gloves in search warrants and they don't turn purple in the sunlight (thanks Margarita)
3. Our POI went to the DMV
4. Lawyers cost money

I'm not being snarky in the least; I participated in all of these conversations...I just find it funny that we are all so analytical, and that is a GOOD thing, and why we are here.

9b. NO SLEUTHING PETS, unless they've been named POIs Pets OF Interest.

 

[Jmm124567]

Good possibility that JM tried to seduce HG and she wasn't going for it and in a fit of passion he raped then killed or killed then raped her.

 

[Lovepink]

Now I am wondering if the dog is named popcorn and if it is what happened to popcorn. Guess he's with family. Did we ever find out how we know his name?

 

[Samantharock]

I'm happy there's a billboard out with Hannah's photo, but I wish there was one with the outfit she was wearing that night. I generally don't notice people's faces while walking about, but her outfit would have caught my attention. Not that it was wrong or inappropriate, it just would have made me notice her.

Thats a good point, theyre digital billboards so hopefully they flash a couple of photos.. anyone in the are able to verify this?

 

[Sjm_qc]

The poster said "imo", clearly they meant their interpretation of what Longo said was that JM killed Hananh.

Thanks, and sorry again for shouting. Especially to the OP I targeted. There's just so much misinformation circulating here & elsewhere, I'm going a bit cray-cray-crazy.

Sorry. Again.

 

[fiorita]

I DEFINITELY SUPPORT THIS THEORY. And shall I add the area of the transportation center is NOT a good place to be at night. Neither is the Amtrak or Greyhound station

This is my new theory. Hannah left first party to go meet someone downtown at the first bar she stopped at (O' Malleys? Not positive of the name). She was in a rush because she tried to catch a bus to get there. Missed it so she decided to walk but maybe got a bit lost because it was at night and maybe she was a bit drunk. By the time she got down there whomever she planned to meet was already in the bar and she couldn't get in (probably got carded by the bouncer). So she walked through the area towards the transportation center to go back to campus and saw JM whom she knew. She called to him to say hi and then they walked in that direction together. Then she realized she had to go to the bathroom so they went into Tempo to do that. They left and she walked on to the transportation center and he got in his car and went home. He can't prove that because it was late at night and likely stopped no where else and has no alibi. Something happened to her either before getting on a bus or after getting off near her apartment.

I don't know why exactly but I just feel he was in the wrong place, wrong time. I think Longo saw the resemblance between him and the MH suspect sketch that many of you see and went crazy gung-ho thinking it was going to be HUGE and ran with it.

 

[snarkymalarkey]

I wish we knew what WG said to police. I wonder if it was the group of guys behind her that drew the attention of both men, or she was unsteady, or...? It seems to me to be a bit coincidental that two men suddenly noticed her and started following/approaching after she'd been wandering alone for such a long time, and I do not believe they were in any sort of cahoots. Nobody seemed to take any sort of notice of her at McGrady's. Why all of a sudden in the same place, at the same time did two people take a sudden interest?

Did you watch the full security video for McGradys? It seems like she had 3 guys staring at her direction. One guy pointes twice, and another ones lifts his *advertiser censored* off the seat and leans forward and crooks his head. All three seemed yto be very interested in that area when she walked over to the left. Watch it again.

 

[DocBrew]

Don't you think if they had that evidence there would be no reason to be so adamant and brazen? He would announce an arrest and then put on the show for the media...

Something in plain view within his car immediately gave them probable cause for a judge to sign off on a search warrant for his home. If it wasn't a liter of blood, they can't arrest him for murder yet. If it was sequins from her shirt, they can't arrest him for murder yet. Heck, if it was her shirt, they can't arrest him for murder yet. They need a body, or forensic proof within his car/home that she is dead, or a strong circumstantial case that he killed her, before they can arrest him.

He did it, no question in my mind. It's just a matter of getting back forensics and/or finding her. JMO.

 

[IMO]

THANKS for being here! It would be great if you would be a verified specialist for the Websleuth forums. I don't know how you do that but someone here can tell you..it's just being verified by MODS, I think. Please do! JMO

Thanks for the kind words. Will consider, but I am not sure how much expertise I can provide as again I do not do any criminal work at all.

 

[pittie_mcclure]

Woah! Where did we find out his dog's name? I am behind.

Seriously! Wow you guys move fast.

I don't know how to quote what you quoted so I apologize, but.. isn't he moving? Why would he be at his publicly known address at this point and not a his new apartment or staying with family? That makes more sense than him staying in a place that he was in the process of moving out of, especially now that everybody knows. Also, I own a pitbull and I'd be so scared leaving my dog there if LE night come in at any time. Can we assume he doesn't want his dog shot? I don't know, just me opinion.

 

[Lava]

Yep, it would be good to know what WG saw and heard as HG and JM approached each other. It would provide important perspective.

I wonder why media never asks the interesting questions at a press conference.

Didn't WG say he backed off because she looked like she was in safe hands or with a friend?

Would love to know more about that.