VA - Hannah Elizabeth Graham, 18, Charlottesville, 13 Sept 2014 - #16 *ARREST*

[Elley Mae]

I think it's the same shirt and it just looks white b/c of the quality of the video.

Looking again I see that now, Thanks.

 

[MrPalomar]

I think it's the same shirt and it just looks white b/c of the quality of the video.

I think you're right, but there's something that's troubling me now.

WG described his clothes as white shirt/black pants. I'm willing to let slide that he didn't remember what kind of pants he had on, and on the video it did look like he had on a white shirt. But now we know that JM had a blue checked shirt on. How would he have gotten that detail so wrong?

WG's description of the person helping Hannah is getting further and further from reality. I understand that people have faulty memories or don't notice things but here's his track record right now:

Black: yes
Male: yes
Bald: no, dreadlocks
Goatee: yes
White shirt: no, rather obvious blue and white checked
Black pants: no, white 3/4 length shorts
Beer belly: possibly, but not exactly how I would have described JM. I would have said stocky or heavyset perhaps.

 

[ClueingForLooks]

I've been wondering about that "intent to defile" charge ever since they announced it. I read the legal description and all of that, and then I began trying to figure out how it would apply here. It almost seems like one of those charges they levy "so we can at least get him on something".

Just a shot in the dark here, but I'm thinking maybe he was taking pictures or video clips of her with his cell phone that night, unbeknownst to her. If she accepted a ride with him, maybe he took even more pictures of her after she was in his vehicle, especially if she had passed out or was close to it.

The key here is the word "intent". How would you establish that ? Helping a drunk girl walk along the sidewalk ? Starting up a chat with a tipsy woman that is out partying all night ? Putting your arm around someone that really isn't accepting of it ?

Is flirting with a pretty girl considered "Intent to defile" ?? If that's all it takes, then I would think that charge should be levied on 50 guys per night in those bars.

That charge by itself seems weak to me. However, coupled with additional evidence such as cell phone photos or video clips, it may have some teeth behind it depending what is shown. If there are no photo's or videos, just eye witness statements, then I have no idea how they would make that charge stick.

I've been wondering about this too. I'm thinking maybe an empty ziplock bag found in his car or apartment containing traces of a date rape drug. Pictures/videos are a good theory too though. Or maybe a witness saying that he makes a habit of getting girls drunk for the purpose of taking advantage of them? Perhaps, drunk himself, he said something to someone at Tempo specifically about taking advantage of HG.

 

[TravelingBug]

News that Matthew had been charged came as a shock to Walt Davis, a pastor who played football with Matthew at Liberty and now lives in Crozet.

“It’s still kind of fresh for me,” Davis said Thursday. “I didn’t know him very well, but he was just a happy guy, who seemed to love life.”

<snip>

Learning that Matthew was found camping on the beach did not surprise Davis, he said.

&#8220;He had kind of a childlike nature,&#8221; Davis said. &#8220;Like Lennie from &#8216;Of Mice and Men,&#8217; but not in a bad way.&#8221;

http://m.newsadvance.com/news/local...ba0-4501-11e4-a3ac-001a4bcf6878.html?mode=jqm

 

[TravelingBug]

Definitely not shy about approaching people unknown.

Also, soliciting teens to "hang out" at 10 pm.

That same day, McCoy&#8217;s teenage daughter realized Matthew had approached her and a family friend several weeks earlier at a 7-Eleven near Matthew&#8217;s Hessian Hills apartment, McCoy said.

Matthew pulled up next to the women about 10 p.m. and asked whether they wanted to hang out, McCoy said, but the friend told him they had somewhere to be.

&#8220;We never let her go out,&#8221; McCoy said. &#8220;It&#8217;s scary. It&#8217;s just the luck of the draw. We&#8217;ll never know how close it was to being something else.&#8221;

http://m.newsadvance.com/news/local...ba0-4501-11e4-a3ac-001a4bcf6878.html?mode=jqm

 

[MrPalomar]

I've been wondering about this too. I'm thinking maybe an empty ziplock bag found in his car or apartment containing traces of a date rape drug. Pictures/videos are a good theory too though. Or maybe a witness saying that he makes a habit of getting girls drunk for the purpose of taking advantage of them? Perhaps, drunk himself, he said something to someone at Tempo specifically about taking advantage of HG.

To charge someone, LE just needs probable cause so the bar is lower than for conviction. They did search his car and apartment, but I think they have been able to go off of something as simple as him saying that he was going to have sex with her. Plus the fact that no one has seen her since they left Tempo together.

They could have more than that, but I'm not sure how much they need.

 

[astridxx]

I think you're right, but there's something that's troubling me now.

WG described his clothes as white shirt/black pants. I'm willing to let slide that he didn't remember what kind of pants he had on, and on the video it did look like he had on a white shirt. But now we know that JM had a blue checked shirt on. How would he have gotten that detail so wrong?

WG's description of the person helping Hannah is getting further and further from reality. I understand that people have faulty memories or don't notice things but here's his track record right now:

Black: yes
Male: yes
Bald: no, dreadlocks
Goatee: yes
White shirt: no, rather obvious blue and white checked
Black pants: no, white 3/4 length shorts
Beer belly: possibly, but not exactly how I would have described JM. I would have said stocky or heavyset perhaps.

A little off topic BUT I recently gave a witness description to police in an indecent exposure case, and I got the color of the shorts wrong. It happens, especially when talking to cops. I got really nervous and tried to hard to remember that it may have worked against me.

 

[birdbox]

I am going to tell them how I think they can find the body (bodies). First of all, this guy is not that smart, he is no intellectual type. He is not getting off on sitting around trying to outsmart people as some criminals do. He is likely to dispose of a body in a place that he is familiar with, has a good comfort level. So, where is that? I'll tell you. This guys' entire life STOPPED around the time he was 19, in college and was kicked out due to sexual attack allegation. So, he went back home. The police should be looking for a place that either he used to frequent in high school with the guys. They should interview ALL former high school football teammates or college ones. For example, was there a farm or camphouse or river that the football guys used to hang out at and drink beer? I think this guy was mentally stunted at age 18 or 19 for some reason. He has been trying to connect with his former glory days as a high school star football player. My point is he would have the psychological profile to go with what he knows. They need to find his former friends from high school. Not that I am an FBI profiler or anything....just what makes sense to me. This is an opinion. No need for anyone to cut, snip and blast.

 

[alreetlike]

I think you're right, but there's something that's troubling me now.

WG described his clothes as white shirt/black pants. I'm willing to let slide that he didn't remember what kind of pants he had on, and on the video it did look like he had on a white shirt. But now we know that JM had a blue checked shirt on. How would he have gotten that detail so wrong?

WG's description of the person helping Hannah is getting further and further from reality. I understand that people have faulty memories or don't notice things but here's his track record right now:

Black: yes
Male: yes
Bald: no, dreadlocks
Goatee: yes
White shirt: no, rather obvious blue and white checked
Black pants: no, white 3/4 length shorts
Beer belly: possibly, but not exactly how I would have described JM. I would have said stocky or heavyset perhaps.

I see your point, but I'm not too concerned. WG didn't realise at the time that he'd have to recall all the details later, so he wasn't taking notes. Sounds like he did the best he could. I've been talking to my colleague all morning but she's sitting behind me now and I have no idea what she's wearing (though in return she's probably looking at my computer screen thinking "does that girl ever stop reading that forum???")

 

[ToodieWorm]

See and this is what I think - if he DID kill her (because let's be honest, we don't know at this point), it was accidental.

I have gone back and forth on this, but after reading the article...it almost sounds like he didn't understand boundaries. And it seems he might not have known his own strength. I am leaning towards accident too and then he freaked out.
I have known people like this - they just didn't understand that they were inappropriate.

 

[Magdalyn]

I still have a hard time with no one coming out to press charges against him for almost thirteen years, since 2002. How has he managed not to be caught or at least accused all that time, if he is a serial with such obvious behaviors and inappropriately touched several women just that night alone?

Perhaps the use of 'immediately contrite'/gentle giant/I'm a little slow routine is something he's been using all his life. And maybe a good lawyer. And he might have learned to exploit a common fear among victims.

I'm not as well versed on this case as I should be yet, but IIRC we have a lawyer who was assaulted by him, yet wasn't gung-ho to press charges, and a IIRC a college student sexual assault victim who didn't want to press charges....It seems like there's been either something about the nature of the crimes he perpetrates on people (they are embarrassed), or the way he acts in the immediate aftermath could have something to do with it. And a lot of people, when victimized, choose not to press charges, because they feel like it'll be too much trouble (a possible trial), or they they feel sudden empathy for their victimizer for whatever reason. My SIL was assaulted and carjacked by this young gangster wannabe years ago, right on the edge of her college campus. She and her lawyer fiancé discussed it at length, and in the end, she decided not to press charges, because she felt he was young enough to turn his life around and she didn't want to have this go on his permanent record. She is a very sweet woman, I love her dearly, but :banghead:

I think if a lot of his past victims have been underage drunk college girls, they (the girls) would feel torn about how reporting this would go. IOW, if I report this to police, am I going to get in trouble for sneaking into the bar I met him in, and also that I was willingly underage drinking? Teen girls (18/19) may not be thinking 'big picture' (get this creep off the streets) but little picture (I broke the law too, and if I get charged with underage drinking, will I go to jail?/my parents will know/will this affect college.)

And this is not in response to your post, but just wanted to throw this out as I was still thinking about it...
I personally don't think this guy has a mental disability having to do with extreme low IQ. Yes, we all have seen adults who have a mental disability who acquire jobs bagging groceries at our local stores, or as greeters, etc. But we generally don't see them on HS wrestling teams (my son wrestled, we had two females on a predominately male team, and one kid who is legally blind, but not a kid who would be qualified for LD classes/special needs.) We don't see them holding a driver's license, and being employed by hospitals. And none of the people that know him, that I have seen, has included 'slow'/special needs in their descriptors for him.

 

[Elley Mae]

When Graham disappeared Sept. 13, she became the fifth young woman reported missing from Charlottesville over the last five years.

All five vanished within a few miles of Route 29, the main highway that runs through the city.

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/hannah-graham-suspect-jesse-matthew-was-investigated-on-rape-complaint/

 

[Hiandmighty]

All night kept awakecthis scenario: JM sees pretty girl. Goes into pick up mode. Sees she's upset. Her cell phone battery dead. Tells her he will go inside tempo, someone he knows there from her dorm? Hannah waits. Fiddles with phone. Goes on briefly sending last text in que. Phone goes dead. (Happens to me) Comes back out with spiked drink. Hannah drinks. Bingo. Off they go. He gets "lucky" in his mind. Goes too far OR she succumbs to drugs. He panics. Leaves/dumps her somewhere. In his mind he didn't Murder her. Goes to PD. When sees lawyer, tells lawyer they "fooled around" but maybe not the rest. lawyer tells him he's screwed. He runs. I am a newbie/lurker. I am big on scenarios and mind sets. This is just a theory. I am sure many ways to shoot it down. I love web sleuths! You guys are brilliant!!!

I think this was a deliberate, predatory violation of HG by JM who intended to rape and murder her and she likely suffered.

 

[astridxx]

Does anyone know if they've checked the abandoned hospital and its grounds? He's a native of c'ville so he should KNOW about the abandoned hospital and how to breech it...

 

[ninij9]

See and this is what I think - if he DID kill her (because let's be honest, we don't know at this point), it was accidental.

Or at least in HIS mind? Jmo

 

[Samantharock]

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/crime/uva-abduction-suspect-complains-jail-bed-article-1.1953663

Jesse "LJ" Matthew, suspected of abducting UVA student complains about jail cell mattress: 'They had me sleeping on this hard thing'

 

[MzOpinion8d]

See and this is what I think - if he DID kill her (because let's be honest, we don't know at this point), it was accidental.

I see your point of view, but personally think if he did kill her it wasn't accidental. The way he sees her, watches her, and then intentionally follows her on that surveillance video says to me that he was looking for a victim.

 

[TravelingBug]

Perhaps the use of 'immediately contrite'/gentle giant/I'm a little slow routine is something he's been using all his life. And maybe a good lawyer. And he might have learned to exploit a common fear among victims..

It'll be interesting to see what we learn as we continue to go forward.

A few comments of potential interest:

Learning that Matthew was found camping on the beach did not surprise Davis, he said.

“He had kind of a childlike nature,” Davis said. “Like Lennie from ‘Of Mice and Men,’ but not in a bad way.”

http://m.newsadvance.com/news/local/....html?mode=jqm

Another friend, Karen Shipley, has known Matthew since elementary school when both were in a program for kids with learning disabilities
.

http://wvtf.org/post/friends-jesse-m...-their-support

And not sure what to make of what the landlady was saying in terms of "bills."

Lee-Vandell last spoke to Matthew on Thursday, she said, about bills he intended to pay.

http://www.dailyprogress.com/news/l...cle_ebd73df8-41fc-11e4-a871-001a4bcf6878.html

 

[ToodieWorm]

I see your point of view, but personally think if he did kill her it wasn't accidental. The way he sees her, watches her, and then intentionally follows her on that surveillance video says to me that he was looking for a victim.

Strictly playing devil's advocate - if he was looking for a victim, why didn't he stay in the target rich environment of the bar. Just wait until last call and look for someone who is wasted drunk?

 

[Hiandmighty]

He found a wasted drunk girl in the area. What's the point? He found a victim.