VA - Hannah Elizabeth Graham, 18, Charlottesville, 13 Sept 2014 - #16 *ARREST*

[bellesnwhistles]

I learned something interesting about the investigation that I'm pretty sure I can't post because its considered "rumor" but I will just say I think we will find out this is not his first victim/he will be linked to other missing girls. JMO

 

[Phoebeb]

Yes, That happens with me often. Or a voicemail wil pop up that was sent a few days prior.

Maybe JM told her he was taking her to a party.. She didn't know where she was so gave a cross street reference as she was starting to feel uncomfortable.. Like a clue for anyone.. I think she was starting to figure out he was not taking her to a party.. Then phone gets taken from her and turned off cause he figured out what she was doing

I think they didn't leave Tempo until 1:40am or so- text was sent either at 1:06 or 1:20am. Another site says friends said 1:06am which is confusing too since we know HG was on mall in the video at 1:06am (timestamp from Sal's)

 

[steelman]

I had thought the initial charges in Alexis' case made a bit more sense, as she was 17. But Hannah is of age in VA.

The thing is, I think many men go out with the intention of having sex that night. So what would show this? Very interesting, anyway.

I've known a few women through the years that ought to be hit with "Intent to Defile" charges themselves, normally late at night in a bar setting.

 

[Lovepink]

Not really. Criminal law is different than civil. The regular discovery rules do not apply. Instead, evidence can dribble out gradually, to the defense, despite demands for it.

Yep. And va's discovery rules are really limited. Basically any evidence that could clear the accused and the accused's statements. Everything else is the prosecution being nice.

 

[thinksalot]

I laughed outloud. I'm guessing that he will be boarded ahead of the other passengers and they will be seated at the back of the plane. Maybe squeezed up against the window. hehe That would make an interesting trip to the lavatory when others key onto him from the media notices.

I think they should have four people flying with him, not just two. He is strong --- and impulsive.

 

[cluciano63]

I think they didn't leave Tempo until 1:40am or so- text was sent either at 1:06 or 1:20am. Another site says friends said 1:06am which is confusing too since we know HG was on mall in the video at 1:06am (timestamp from Sal's)

Jm's bar receipt was at 1:10 though and depending upon if he drank the two drinks inside, he could have been inside the bar at 1:20 with Hannah waiting outside.

 

[ninij9]

Could any employee drop a bag off as long as they had the correct bag?

Hopefully there is video tape. I dont think he disposed this way though, unless he moved her at a later time.
Where is Hannah[emoji17]

 

[Perplexed 123]

Someone naked bound or gagged possibly could

or if he took a photo of her as he was walking behind her, before he caught up.

 

[Bravo]

I do strongly dislike the word closure. I don't think there ever is any. I think folks just try to find a new normal of some kind. As far as Criminals go I don't hate them either. I just hate what they did.

 

[tennisMD]

My last post regarding the topic of bags being dumped at the hospital. If he entered the hospital there will be a time record of his ID swipe.

Not necessarily. I enter by the loading dock every day and they only make us swipe our badges after certain hours. I doubt the hospital plays into this at all, a lot of people go through the basement. It's how employees get to the main staff parking garage.

 

[ninij9]

I think they should have four people flying with him, not just two. He is strong --- and impulsive.

Dont a lot of women take their shoes off on planes. Sorry jk[emoji5]

 

[ponyponyfan]

the witness descriptions of hannah (basically carried by jm) after last call at tempo seem to be consistent with a date rape drug. it seems unlikely hannah would go from running through the downtown mall at 12:55 to unable to walk at 1:45 if she only had one additional drink. i'm not sure of the letter of VA law, but my first thought was that they found additional date rape drugs at his house or in his car (or perhaps the description of her impared state after last call alone was enough to satisfy 'intent to defile')
jmo

 

[Heroine]

It was the first thing I thought of. WTH Supposedly there is evidence that we have not seen, seems that his (JM) lawyer would have to be shown this evidence, otherwise they could arrest people all day under that charge. jmo idk I also don't like that they pretty much went though his phone and wire tapped his family/friends to learn his wwhere abouts. jmo idk

IMO it's these things that lead me to believe that this case in LE's mind is a VERY high profile case. Makes you wonder and almost know that they believe he's done some very bad things recently and possibly in the past. However there must be some evidence to prove their theory that they aren't telling the public. It's because of this I can't help but think that LE and especially FBI feel like he is a repeat offender and has harmed other people. This is just my opinion, but something has to explain the way LE and FBI are handling this case and I don't think it's just that he was the last person to see HG.

 

[ponyponyfan]

also possible that her 'coming to a party... i'm lost' text was a white lie. she may have planned to go to another party after grabbing a drink with JM but was buying herself time, since her friends didn't know she was with JM.

Jm's bar receipt was at 1:10 though and depending upon if he drank the two drinks inside, he could have been inside the bar at 1:20 with Hannah waiting outside.

 

[human]

I saw that JM and 2 VA LEO's are flying coach to bring him back to Virginia. I was kind of hoping they would take him on a long car ride back....more opportunity to talk if he decided to.

Wow. Think of being on that flight. I have never seen a criminal being transported on a flight. He will have to be shackled. And coach, being 6' 2" will be fun for the guys thst have to sit by him.

The logistics really are something. I wonder what the passengers will think.

 

[teeandcee]

Not really. Criminal law is different than civil. The regular discovery rules do not apply. Instead, evidence can dribble out gradually, to the defense, despite demands for it.

I had no idea. I assumed it was given in a big package unless more became available. I mean, that's how they do it on L&O!

 

[Phoebeb]

Yes, That happens with me often. Or a voicemail wil pop up that was sent a few days prior.

Foxfire was on here this morning, and we were talking about that. He is of the opinion that Hannah WAS NOT the one that was behind that text. In other words, it was sent to mislead her friends and anybody that may have been looking for her.

But they were seen at 1:40-1:45 a.m. leaving Tempo (if true) per "Abby" at Tempo. If text sent at 1:20 a.m. he would have had to gain control of her cell before they left. jmo

 

[steelman]

I just think if Hannah was inside the city limits, that people's noses would lead them right to her. I highly doubt that JM was carrying around a shovel in the backseat of his stylish orange car. That would simply mean, she was dumped out in the country, or she was thrown into a commercial dumpster that was picked up and emptied on Monday or Tuesday morning.

 

[DavidC]

I think Hannah kept walking. I don't think she waited outside a bar for anyone. Time will tell.

 

[gitana1]

I came to this site because of Hannah, but with a lot of emotional baggage because I have a daughter at UVA. I was relieved when JM was arrested. But since then, after my emotions died down and my logical side kicked in many aspects of this case are raising a lot of questions for me.

Bessie told us not to talk of mental health issues because there is no evidence he's been diagnosed with such. Those of us that said JM doesn't seem all there mentally based it on actual video of his appearance in a courtroom but are told we shouldn't speculate on that. Yet, posters here theorize that he's a textbook narcissist and that's ok. Narcissism falls under mental health issues, fyi.

I don't discount the possibility that JM killed Hannah and hid her body, but I also don't discount that he may have only dropped her off wherever she wanted to go and something happened to her after that. There were those 3 other assaults that same weekend in the area Hannah was supposedly almost, or lost, at.

Posters bring up Bundy, Gacey, etc. What percentage of rapists or murderers are on that level? I imagine that's rare, more rare than women that claim they were raped when they weren't.

I don't discount that his incident at LU could have been consensual but the girl felt guilty the next day (Christian religions are good at guilt-I know, I'm R.C.) and claimed it was rape. That does happen.

I live in NY, and Tawana Brawley was a big thing here, and that forever changed the way I look at accusations of rape. I'm sorry if that offends, but that's what I meant by an earlier post in which I said not all females are angels.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that I'm seeing WS in a new light. It does take on a bit of the witch hunt here and has gotten caught up in the media frenzy. I'm going to dial back on the media reports, and wait for just the facts, ma'am.

You may all be 100% correct about this case, time will tell. But even if JM is the monster you think he is, I still have empathy for him. For if I lose empathy, I am a monster too.

I hope they find Hannah alive. If not, I hope they find her and her family can get closure.

Peace.

It is offensive to equate what's happening here on websleuths with mass hysteria and unfounded allegations based on hysteria. First of all, the rules don;t allow that kind of nonsense. As you can see, we weren't even allowed to discuss a possible connection to the Morgan Harrington case until the MSM began to discuss it.

Second, you are dealing with various people who have a lot of education and experience researching these cases and a ton of cumulative experience with the criminal justice system as it applies to these cases. I have seen a lot of well founded speculation about possibilities based on profiling, MO's, missing persons. Much of it is indeed, based in logic. No one is making a definitive statement, really, stating JM MUST be a serial killer or serial rapist. Instead, people are sleuthing out that possibility because, well, this is websleuths, ya' know?

To equate what is happening here with a pitch fork wielding hysterical crowd screaming for the blood of the accused, is grossly unfair. No one wants to deny this man his due process rights. But most websleuthers are here out of concern for the safety of society and the rights of victims and their families, not the constitutional rights of defendants. (Although I am sure there is a website for the latter somewhere).

Finally, "narcissism" is not a mental health diagnosis. Neither is being a narcissist. It's a personality trait or type. (NPD is a different thing).

And as to logic? Logic is my job. It's a tool I utilize in my profession every day. And I'm using my logic to state that it is much more likely than not that JM raped and murdered Hannah and that it is quite likely he has acted in a sexually predatory manner in the past.

:moo: