VA - Hannah Elizabeth Graham, 18, Charlottesville, 13 Sept 2014 - #3

[TTF14]

So according to LE "He was seen with Hannah Graham in the 3-500 blocks of E. Main St. on the Downtown Mall in the City of Charlottesville around 1 to 1:15 a.m. on September 13 (Friday night/Saturday morning), according to police" so if the surveillance from Tuel's Jewelers located at 319 E. Main St at 1:08 doesn't show this guy, then he would have approached Hannah sometime between the moment we've seen her in that video and the time she may have reached the end of the 500 block, right?

Sounds that way. Dreadlock guy (if he's not a figment of all of our imaginations) fits in with this time/scenario since he's seen with her within these parameters. But I guess Dreadlocks dropped off at some point and another black male took over. The only way I will believe that is what happened is if Dreads really is a figment of our imaginations or the video has been altered to change his appearance from what WG says (highly unlikely).

 

[achilton1987]

I am actually focused on both. Maybe the black guy only walked with her so far, then the witness comes back into the picture. At some point she either was left by herself again, dragged off somewhere or put in a car.

They could very well be working with each other. They did say the white guy used his phone right as he went into the doorway.

 

[jbennett]

I think it's strange that dreadlocks is so obvious in the videos yet police have not mentioned him and it seems WG did not mention him either, although he definitely would have seen him had he been watching Hannah like he says he was. The only reason I can think of for this would be that police think Dreads was working with the other BG that WG told them about and they dont want to spook him.

 

[popsicle]

Henry Graff ‏@HenryGraff 14m
UPDATE: police say no new developments in #HannahGraham case overnight. Search crews will continue east. They aren't out yet.

 

[Topcat]

The problem we have here is we don't know everything that LE knows.We don't know everything that WG has told them and we don't know what other info LE has from off the streets. LE will not show their hand as they build up their database of info.They release enough to show they are very involved. ..

 

[popsicle]

NBC29 ‏@NBC29 2m
BREAKING: police tell @HenryGraff they are investigating two reported sexual assaults from this weekend on Wertland Street and 15th Street.

NBC29 ‏@NBC29 1m
BREAKING: police tell @HenryGraff they DO NOT believe pair of sexual assaults is connected to #HannahGraham case.

 

[waltzingmatilda]

If there are no cameras at businesses in the 300-500 blocks of main where BG allegedly put his arm around Hannah and WG stopped following then my hinky meter is gonna go off the rails since BG description is so similar to MH's abductor/killer. I'd also like to know if WG and/or Dreadlocks Guy is seen on any vids walking back alone to his point of origin after he stopped following Hannah. If I were a serial predator I would stalk victims in an area where there are no known cameras since cameras seem to be everywhere these days.

Dang I wish some locals could go and take pictures of all the places Hannah was spotted. Someone did that for us in Heather Elvis' case and it was helpful to understand the layout of the areas in question.

 

[trigger]

If she was taken away in a car...we are likely looking at a situation of sheer luck in her being found, if she is not alive. Like Morgan. And like, I think, Christina in TX. They have to search the area but then what? Once a victim ends up in a car, they could be anywhere and not usually a good one. I am afraid if they don't find her in searches over the next five days or so, this will end up being another "search based on tips only" case. LE can only invest manpower like this for so, if are they in fact searching randomly.

I think she had to be taken by car bc of her text message. She was seen on video and few minutes later she sent a text in another area, right?

Did you guys see the map/timeline that was posted on video?

Look at first video

http://wtvr.com/2014/09/18/all-surveillance-videos-of-missing-uva-student-hannah-elizabeth-graham/

 

[thebes]

This morning's Washington Post article has a few new pieces of information I haven't seen before:
1. The cooperating witness (doorway guy) lives in Charlottesville
2. "Graham last texted friends at 1:06 a.m. — likely moments after she was last on video — to say that she was lost, according to police."
3. "He said the witness [doorway guy] contacted police through a hotline, on which police had received 100 tips. He did not release the name of the witness, who he said played phone tag with investigators before voluntarily coming to the police department around 10 p.m. Wednesday."
4. "Dave Taylor, owner of the Read it Again Sam book shop, said that Charlottesville police had not come to his business seeking camera footage as of late Thursday. His storefront is one of the last places Graham is seen walking, captured by an exterior camera at Sal’s Caffe Italia across the street."

http://www.washingtonpost.com/local...662674-3f42-11e4-9587-5dafd96295f0_story.html

 

[achilton1987]

Sounds that way. Dreadlock guy (if he's not a figment of all of our imaginations) fits in with this time/scenario since he's seen with her within these parameters. But I guess Dreadlocks dropped off at some point and another black male took over. The only way I will believe that is what happened is if Dreads really is a figment of our imaginations or the video has been altered to change his appearance from what WG says (highly unlikely).

From WG's actions there is nothing I would believe. Normal good natured people do not follow drunk young girls. He looks sober. Why is he walking around that area at 1am? How and where did he notice her in the first place being distressed? How and why did he than get in front of her to only stop and follow her? These actions are very suspect. At one point he looks over his shoulder to spot her. She is about 1 block behind him with another guy in between them.

Dread shows up following them but in Sals video the Tuel video which is only 2 minutes or one block from Sals he is nowhere to be seen, or he can be right next to her walking stride in stride which makes it harder to see him. They say its a reflection, yet the others that walk by don't show a reflection in the same manner. He would have had to stop or turn around, without another video feed showing him back at Sals he should be considered a suspect. He was clearly walking in that direction with the other group, however he supposedly doesnt show up in the Tuel feed.

 

[gingerbread]

just to clarify, the description of the black male, that was not seen on any surveillance footage came from another man who was seen on surveillance video following hannah.

I'm just posting this since a lot of conversation was going back and forth concerning whether le was providing the description of the person of interest based on the man's word or if they'd seen him on video.

Actual quote from article-
"the description came from another man who was seen on surveillance videos following graham on the night she disappeared. The "person of interest" is not seen on any surveillance footage." http://abcnews.go.com/us/missing-university-virginia-student-hannah-graham-man/story?id=25592387

""right now we're seeing him as a cooperative witness," capt. Gary pleasants told abc news referring to the man seen on the video"

the words 'right now' and 'seeing him' leads me to believe they do not necessarily trust him, but for 'right now' they've not determined one way or the other if he's hiding something.

thank you!!!

 

[alreetlike]

Where I live (and maybe other places too) if you ever wake up not really remembering how you got home safely, it's colloquially known as the "beer angel" guiding you home.

Shame that Hannah didn't seen to have a beer angel that night. Hopefully other young men and women will be reminded to stay safe and keep in touch with their friends after drinking.

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Beer Angel

 

[Tuckersmom]

I wish there was some indication where she was between the time her friends last saw her 11:50 I believe and 12:45 when she was on the pubs camera? That is an hour that is missing..

Is the person seen early in the video crossing 9th st NW and walking back towards the pub the same person seen later in the video at the 2min 50 mark. If it is, then it means that Hannah Graham walked a good ways past the pub, then something made her come back. She may have realized she was really lost at that point.

 

[Madison418]

I think it's strange that dreadlocks is so obvious in the videos yet police have not mentioned him and it seems WG did not mention him either, although he definitely would have seen him had he been watching Hannah like he says he was. The only reason I can think of for this would be that police think Dreads was working with the other BG that WG told them about and they dont want to spook him.

I feel like this is all very purposeful by LE. Perhaps the description they released is made up and really it was dreads guy but they released a different description in order to not spook dreads guy and in hopes he may come forward. I hope we will find out soon enough. This family needs answers, I cannot imagine how they are feeling.

 

[Tuckersmom]

And wouldn't you think we would get a sketch vs description if WG was so close to see the POI? I am still on the fence on WG..If the description is true, I would think if she did not know the POI and he put is arm around her, I would think she would have pulled away or reacted, esp since the video shows there were people out and about at the mall. Now, if a older white man offered to drive me home, I may not be as guarded.

I don't completely agree with you. LE has to make a case that there is or is not a POI described by the WG who was following her. So far, he is the only witness describing the BG with the goatee. If others don't come forward as having seen this guy, it could be because the WG is making him up.

 

[achilton1987]

If there are no cameras at businesses in the 300-500 blocks of main where BG allegedly put his arm around Hannah and WG stopped following then my hinky meter is gonna go off the rails since BG description is so similar to MH's abductor/killer. I'd also like to know if WG and/or Dreadlocks Guy is seen on any vids walking back alone to his point of origin after he stopped following Hannah. If I were a serial predator I would stalk victims in an area where there are no known cameras since cameras seem to be everywhere these days.

Dang I wish some locals could go and take pictures of all the places Hannah was spotted. Someone did that for us in Heather Elvis' case and it was helpful to understand the layout of the areas in question.

Sals is at 221 E Main and Tuels is at 319 E Main so exactly one block from eachother or 2 minutes according to the video feed times.

 

[Madison418]

If there are no cameras at businesses in the 300-500 blocks of main where BG allegedly put his arm around Hannah and WG stopped following then my hinky meter is gonna go off the rails since BG description is so similar to MH's abductor/killer. I'd also like to know if WG and/or Dreadlocks Guy is seen on any vids walking back alone to his point of origin after he stopped following Hannah. If I were a serial predator I would stalk victims in an area where there are no known cameras since cameras seem to be everywhere these days.

Dang I wish some locals could go and take pictures of all the places Hannah was spotted. Someone did that for us in Heather Elvis' case and it was helpful to understand the layout of the areas in question.

Very good thought, I too would love to know if there's more surveillance of dreads guy and WG walking off alone after that point. If there is not video then that is very shady! I'm sure LE has all of this info, everything they've done to this point has been with purpose.

 

[Luvrosco]

Unfortunately, I have a bad feeling about this.

 

[mirv22]

If there are no cameras at businesses in the 300-500 blocks of main where BG allegedly put his arm around Hannah and WG stopped following then my hinky meter is gonna go off the rails since BG description is so similar to MH's abductor/killer. I'd also like to know if WG and/or Dreadlocks Guy is seen on any vids walking back alone to his point of origin after he stopped following Hannah. If I were a serial predator I would stalk victims in an area where there are no known cameras since cameras seem to be everywhere these days.

Dang I wish some locals could go and take pictures of all the places Hannah was spotted. Someone did that for us in Heather Elvis' case and it was helpful to understand the layout of the areas in question.

I can't go take pictures, but I can get you accurate street views. Here is a screen shot of the mall where she was walking on the Tuels camera. That is a cross street that the picture was taken from. One of only two points on the Mall that cars can cross. The block she was walking on in the video is the 300 block, the next block (also pictured below) is the 400 block. There should be businesses there that have cameras. There is a bank right there, so you would think they would have a camera.

 

[razzledazzle]

They could very well be working with each other. They did say the white guy used his phone right as he went into the doorway.

I still can't shake my original thought that this is a highly organized, carefully staged abduction where she was handed off from one person to another until she was out of camera range. Cameras provide an excellent alibi for some. JMO