VA - Hannah Elizabeth Graham, 18, Charlottesville, 13 Sept 2014 - #3

[jef3r]

Random point I forgot to mention earlier...

A few people have commented on the guy that was trailing her having different color pants and so assume that it's a different man.

I use a night vision camera system for my children and when it's in night vision mode, it distorts the colors. For example, napping during the day, the room is light enough the camera doesn't need night vision mode so their green sheets still look green. But at nighttime when the room is dark, the camera switches to night vision and those green sheets now look white. Everything becomes shades of grey and white.

So, all that being said...in the Sal's Cafe footage, everything is gray/white. Seems that that's night vision mode so his pants, which may be dark in actuality, appear light colored.

The jeweler footage is color. Probably b/c there's brighter street lamps there. So those cameras are likely NOT in night vision mode. So his pants there appear their true color which is some dark brown or black.

Just something I observed which may help clear up confusion of the two different color pants.

 

[Lamima]

I wish there was some indication where she was between the time her friends last saw her 11:50 I believe and 12:45 when she was on the pubs camera? That is an hour that is missing..

I've been thinking about this too. I wonder if she went back to her apartment like she told her friends she was going to do. From the beginning I felt she was looking for someone. Maybe some fella was supposed to meet her at her apartment (or wherever she was in that hour) and didn't so she went to look for him. Seems to me she's looking for someone at the pub. I wonder if she could see inside when she was up by the doorman. Have the police talked to that doorman...on NG it seemed like they hadn't.

As for the mall and the WG...the video of him in the nook waiting for her to pass did make me think he was a cop. I also thought he and dreads were working together. Maybe they had some undercover sting going on that WG and dreads had to get back to.

I think her friends should have some information. I wonder why there is no mention of that by police. They should know what her supposed erratic texts said and they should know if there was a fella she was crushing on. They, or her roommates at least, should know if she went back to her apartment. Police also have video footage of her at her apartment in the 9pm hour, right? So I am guessing she did not go back in the 12am hour.

 

[Ashley114]

What are you thinking Ash? What if she fell and hit her head during the 11:50~12:45 missing time frame?? Maybe that, in addition to the alcohol, is what was causing her erratic behavior? Sorry, jumping off your post.

Sorry, I had to sleep!! I think a fall is not out of the question, like you said, in addition to whatever she was under the influence of. I wouldn't go so far as to say she had any major injuries, I think it would be more obvious to us, but if she was under the influence of some sort of odd drug, she could have fallen, and be sore.

 

[TTF14]

Random point I forgot to mention earlier...

A few people have commented on the guy that was trailing her having different color pants and so assume that it's a different man.

I use a night vision camera system for my children and when it's in night vision mode, it distorts the colors. For example, napping during the day, the room is light enough the camera doesn't need night vision mode so their green sheets still look green. But at nighttime when the room is dark, the camera switches to night vision and those green sheets now look white. Everything becomes shades of grey and white.

So, all that being said...in the Sal's Cafe footage, everything is gray/white. Seems that that's night vision mode so his pants, which may be dark in actuality, appear light colored.

The jeweler footage is color. Probably b/c there's brighter street lamps there. So those cameras are likely NOT in night vision mode. So his pants there appear their true color which is some dark brown or black.

Just something I observed which may help clear up confusion of the two different color pants.

Maybe night vision glasses also make a clean cut black man look like a black man with dreadlocks.

 

[trigger]

I wish there was some indication where she was between the time her friends last saw her 11:50 I believe and 12:45 when she was on the pubs camera? That is an hour that is missing..

Yes where was she? She could have met up with a guy who put something in her drink.

Im not sure if it was me or my daughters or my sister but we are 911 operators. One of us got a 911 call from a girl. My coworker had hungup on a girl who called 911 saying she was lost but 911 op hungup on her saying i cannot help you if you do not know where you are. Then luckily she called back. She was 15 miles from where she was. She was with her friends at a Club. I asked her to walk to a street sign so I could send her help. The officer took her back to the Club and left her with her friends. A few minutes later her friends called 911 back saying they think she was given a drug and it appeared she had been raped.

I wonder if this had happen to her. The cop thought she was drunk.

 

[achilton1987]

I still can't shake my original thought that this is a highly organized, carefully staged abduction where she was handed off from one person to another until she was out of camera range. Cameras provide an excellent alibi for some. JMO

One guy to find the victim the other to get her trust.

 

[thebes]

From the comments to this morning's Washington Post article, someone who works on the mall says the dreadlocks guy is a regular down there.

The other item that seems to be receiving a lot of comments is the guy with dreadlocks and white shorts. I work on the mall with my window overlooking the mall and the guy with dreadlocks is a mall character/regular that is a bit of a nuisance but I would be shocked if he is guilty of abduction. He sees himself as a kind of protector on the mall watching out for crime (I have heard him telling police about crimes that he has prevented). Who knows but I doubt it was him.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/local...662674-3f42-11e4-9587-5dafd96295f0_story.html

 

[waltzingmatilda]

I can't go take pictures, but I can get you accurate street views. Here is a screen shot of the mall where she was walking on the Tuels camera. That is a cross street that the picture was taken from. One of only two points on the Mall that cars can cross. The block she was walking on in the video is the 300 block, the next block (also pictured below) is the 400 block. There should be businesses there that have cameras. There is a bank right there, so you would think they would have a camera. View attachment 59308 View attachment 59309

Thank you very, very much, mirv22! TODAY reported that LE will be reviewing vids from area banks today so hopefully they will find something helpful or significant.

 

[leilarose68]

From WG's actions there is nothing I would believe. Normal good natured people do not follow drunk young girls. He looks sober. Why is he walking around that area at 1am? How and where did he notice her in the first place being distressed? How and why did he than get in front of her to only stop and follow her? These actions are very suspect. At one point he looks over his shoulder to spot her. She is about 1 block behind him with another guy in between them.

Dread shows up following them but in Sals video the Tuel video which is only 2 minutes or one block from Sals he is nowhere to be seen, or he can be right next to her walking stride in stride which makes it harder to see him. They say its a reflection, yet the others that walk by don't show a reflection in the same manner. He would have had to stop or turn around, without another video feed showing him back at Sals he should be considered a suspect. He was clearly walking in that direction with the other group, however he supposedly doesnt show up in the Tuel feed.

uhh people do all kinds of things. there are awkward dudes who don't know how to help, so they follow. and there are guys who want to check girls out so they follow them around a bit. this stuff happens all the time. the vast majority of them don't abduct people. i'm sure if an attractive girl wearing an attractive outfit had a security camera on her at all times, we'd see a lot of this.

 

[leilarose68]

Yes where was she? She could have met up with a guy who put something in her drink.

Im not sure if it was me or my daughters or my sister but we are 911 operators. One of us got a 911 call from a girl. My coworker had hungup on a girl who called 911 saying she was lost but 911 op hungup on her saying i cannot help you if you do not know where you are. Then luckily she called back. She was 15 miles from where she was. She was with her friends at a Club. I asked her to walk to a street sign so I could send her help. The officer took her back to the Club and left her with her friends. A few minutes later her friends called 911 back saying they think she was given a drug and it appeared she had been raped.

I wonder if this had happen to her. The cop thought she was drunk.

she wouldn't have been able to walk for as long as she did + with purpose if something was put in her drink.

 

[GeeButtersnaps]

I've been thinking about this too. I wonder if she went back to her apartment like she told her friends she was going to do. From the beginning I felt she was looking for someone. Maybe some fella was supposed to meet her at her apartment (or wherever she was in that hour) and didn't so she went to look for him. Seems to me she's looking for someone at the pub. I wonder if she could see inside when she was up by the doorman. Have the police talked to that doorman...on NG it seemed like they hadn't.

As for the mall and the WG...the video of him in the nook waiting for her to pass did make me think he was a cop. I also thought he and dreads were working together. Maybe they had some undercover sting going on that WG and dreads had to get back to.

I think her friends should have some information. I wonder why there is no mention of that by police. They should know what her supposed erratic texts said and they should know if there was a fella she was crushing on. They, or her roommates at least, should know if she went back to her apartment. Police also have video footage of her at her apartment in the 9pm hour, right? So I am guessing she did not go back in the 12am hour.

I've thought a lot about that too..if she went to her apt though I would think they would have footage of it to verify as they do of her initially leaving her apt earlier that night. But I would like to know what all those "erratic texts" she sent out in that timeframe up until her "I'm lost" text were. I think those and where she was could be key pieces of evidence we don't have..

 

[Skigirl]

I have been thinking about WG. He is so non-descript in the video -- gimme-a-six-pack-of-people average, unremarkable, not someone you would even remember seeing five minutes later. If he had something to do with Hannah's disappearance, wouldn't it have just been smarter for him to bank on not being identified on the video than to call a tip line and remove all doubt as to his identity?


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[helpfulcharlie]

she wouldn't have been able to walk for as long as she did + with purpose if something was put in her drink.

That's a very broad statement. It would depend on WHAT was put in her drink.

 

[Detective40oz]

I have been thinking about WG. He is so non-descript in the video -- gimme-a-six-pack-of-people average, unremarkable, not someone you would even remember seeing five minutes later. If he had something to do with Hannah's disappearance, wouldn't it have just been smarter for him to bank on not being identified on the video than to call a tip line and remove all doubt as to his identity?


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I thought about that too but he reported the incident before the video was released so he wouldn't have known what they had on video or the quality of said video. For all he knew they could have had a clear shot of him.

 

[Justice101]

I wonder why the CPD only put out a description for the POI and not a sketch? Is that normal to do just a description for a POI and only use a sketch for someone known as the assailant?

 

[Detective40oz]

I wonder why the CPD only put out a description for the POI and not a sketch? Is that normal to do just a description for a POI and only use a sketch for someone known as the assailant?

The only witness may have seen the man only from behind or the side since he was following them. Or the police don't really believe his story. Lastly they don't want to start a panic with everyone comparing sketches between this POI and the MH case. These are all possibilities I can think of.

 

[leilarose68]

I have been thinking about WG. He is so non-descript in the video -- gimme-a-six-pack-of-people average, unremarkable, not someone you would even remember seeing five minutes later. If he had something to do with Hannah's disappearance, wouldn't it have just been smarter for him to bank on not being identified on the video than to call a tip line and remove all doubt as to his identity?


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yeha, exactly. and especially when he knows there will probably be more footage. it just seems foolish and doesn't make sense

 

[ultimatesoccermom]

Sorry to chime in, but I've been following this thread and the case for a while, and I really think people are focusing on the released videos way too much. At this point subjective opinions are starting to leak in instead of objective facts. You can focus on the CWG or the BG all you want, but the videos are not going to teach you anything new other than establish a timeline and identify some persons of interest. At this point the Police need to trace HG's last steps as closely as possible. Determine what cross street she turned down off from the mall, and keep pulling security tapes of nearby businesses and interviewing potential witnesses.

I live in Charlottesville, was down on the mall yesterday, and walked past the exact locations where the security camera footage was taken. Guess what, there is a Union Bank ATM just past Tuel’s on 4th street positioned on the exact same side the HG was traveling. Seeing as how ATM’s have security cameras, I hope this is footage the PD didn’t miss. Additionally, there is another ATM a block or two past the Union Bank ATM. Like I said, the PD needs to try and pinpoint exactly what street she turned down to get off of the downtown mall. From there, you may be able to identify questionable persons/vehicles by pulling traffic camera/business footage and go from there. Seeing as how this occurred after 1am – we know the local municipal garages were closed. This leaves either street parking or one major pay-to-park lot in the area.

The only other real spot to do this, based on where the PD were searching yesterday, would be an industrial park just south of LexisNexis. It’s a location where there is little to no foot traffic at night with the exception of homeless people. However, I find it hard to believe that a young woman would be ok with wandering through some trees, across a railroad track, and into an industrial park to get a ride. Seeing as how there have been no signs of a struggle found that we know of, and no one heard yelling of any kind, I’m willing to bet that HG got into a vehicle at some point…willingly. If not, then her abduction happened very very fast.

 

[DocBrew]

Heh. LE isn't going to call someone a POI if they don't have a good workup on said POI. They aren't just putting this out there because 'white guy said' this or that. If LE suspected white guy had anything to do with this, they would NEVER put out a BOLO for another POI - and actually call him a POI - as it would provide all kinds of reasonable doubt for a defense attorney.

White dude - at least this one - had zero to do with this. JMO.

 

[tgr49]

NBC29 ‏@NBC29 1m
BREAKING: police tell @HenryGraff they are executing a search warrant NOW in #HannahGraham case.