VA - Nicole Lovell, 13, Blacksburg, 27 January 2016 #4 *Arrests*

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Agreed about the self-harming; it's more of a coping mechanism, as strange as that sounds. I don't know so much about TBI, but many psychological conditions (BPD, schizoaffective disorder, schizophrenia) also manifest in the late teen years. I agree that her eyes look dead. She may have not been correctly diagnosed or diagnosed at all. FWIW, prozac seems to be a drug of choice by many prescribers. She may have needed something totally different, like an anti-psychotic. Then again, some people can have worse symptoms from psych meds than their actual condition until the right diagnosis/medication is achieved. It's a really frustrating "science," IMO.

What strikes me upon reading the various articles if "why" she says she helped DE, i.e., to be part of something secret and special. I wonder if she doesn't feel the way other people feel?

I really don't know what to think, apart from believing that she's responsible for doing these horrible things.


The wish to take part in something "secret and special" sounds to me like someone who feels superior to others and wants to manifest this superiority in the outside world. jmo


Detailed description of the area...makes me think: Could she have been murdered IN Craig Creek (in the creek itself)?

As some others have said, I pray this was quick and Nicole didn't see it coming. Fearing so much that, with the "motivation" looking as it looks to me, torture might have been involved. Please no.


Or rape? :(


She has a very flat affect... JMO!


Yes I totally agree. Found her very unappealing and boring in that video.
 
We do not know how many wounds Nicole suffered. If it was a throat slitting, likely one person did that. But both are guilty of murder, in some degree. It IS Natalie who has an affection for cutting. I can't believe that she missed the thrill of either doing it or witnessing it. I'm confident that the method of murder was her idea. JMO
I'm not sure that her cutting behavior automatically means she would be inclined to stab someone else. Those are certainly not the same thing, or necessarily related. I absolutely think she's evil, but I don't think her cutting is necessarily relevant. I know people who self harm, and some of the comments I've seen in this thread have been a little insensitive, in my opinion.

Self harm has nothing to do with murder.
 
I'm really struck by the fact that Nicole's friend continues to repeat that she did inform the school's resource officer about Nicole's involvement with guys over age 18. To me, she sounds really credible. She does not come across as manipulative or attention seeking IMO. I think it would have been really easy for the resource officer to have put the piece of paper she gave him in his pocket and then forgotten completely about it. To be honest, he may not have taken it seriously. I'm sure he has multiple disciplinary type issues that arise daily which require more immediate attention and this young lady's plea could easily have been set aside and forgotten. It sounds like the resource officer will never admit that he may have dropped the ball. I don't know why it bothers me so much at this point, Nicole is gone and nothing will bring her back. But it does bother me. And of course I could be wrong about the friend's truthfulness.
This really bothers me, too. It's so unfair to this poor girl!
 
I'm still thinking this was suicide by proxy, at least on NK's part. I'm not sure about DE yet as his lawyer is wisely keeping things quiet. (I don't believe DE's "friend" who is fundraising for bail money is sanctioned by DE or his lawyer.)

I think she ended her life by ending someone else's.

Incredibly sad, all around.
 
You simply do not commit murder unless you are bitter, angry and resentful. Children and teenagers who kill have been living with rage for years.
"I can't believe he did it. He was such a quiet person"...angry adolescents hide their resentments so well that most observers are shocked when they turn to violence.......
They feel deeply cut off socially and emotionally. They usually just don't fit in. And if they appear to others to fit in, inwardly, they do not believe they do. They do not feel loved, nor do they have a sense that they belong!
They may have a preoccupation with
death, or show cruelty to animals.

Other times the alienation is within the family. One child grows up feeling different from his siblings, unwanted, unloved or resentful.
http://www.ncfliving.org/bk_102_violence1.php
 
I agree. From what I know about self-harming behavior like cutting it does not correspond or predict violent behavior toward others. And I have been told that the cutting is not an attempt at suicide but rather provides the cutter with an outlet for their pent up emotions and stress. They are often individuals who do not feel that they can express their feelings verbally for whatever reason.

Why do you say you wonder if she suffered TBI (Traumatic Brain Injury)?

On her FB, before it was scrubbed, there was a comment from someone several years back that mentioned her having a concussion. I really don't know much about TBI, but my understanding is that it can cause permanent changes to the brain including a predilection for violent behavior. Of course, there are many reasons why people become killers, and many people have concussions without any long-term consequences. I just thought it was really interesting.
 
Z
On her FB, before it was scrubbed, there was a comment from someone several years back that mentioned her having a concussion. I really don't know much about TBI, but my understanding is that it can cause permanent changes to the brain including a predilection for violent behavior. Of course, there are many reasons why people become killers, and many people have concussions without any long-term consequences. I just thought it was really interesting.

You can be sure more will be heard about this. Maybe the concussion even caused her "false" confession, who knows...
 
I'm still thinking this was suicide by proxy, at least on NK's part. I'm not sure about DE yet as his lawyer is wisely keeping things quiet. (I don't believe DE's "friend" who is fundraising for bail money is sanctioned by DE or his lawyer.)

I think she ended her life by ending someone else's.

Incredibly sad, all around.

Interesting! I hadn't thought about Nicole's murder as being symbolic in Keepers' mind as her own death. Not unlikely, I have to agree. I do see DE as the master manipulator. He chose Natalie because he could manipulate her. He manipulated the "friend" trying to fundraise for his bail money and by sneakily getting "his side of the story" out there. I won't be linking that story any more.

Definitely not an excuse for NK at all! She knew right from wrong. She was excited about being a part of a murder plot! She could have stopped Nicole's death. She must be punished to the full extent of the law. I'm still not sure if she witnessed the murder or not. Maybe DE convinced her if she didn't see him kill Nicole then she wouldn't be charged. I think she's surprised she got caught! DE, not so much. I think he had a game plan if he got caught and Keepers is definitely part of the plan since he got caught. He decided from the beginning he wasn't going to go down alone.
 
VA Tech track team...

“It has been a tough week,” Cianelli said. “We’re trying to just keep everything basically as routine as we can.”

When Cianelli was asked how he’s tried to keep things routine for his team, Mary Lee Gibson, a Virginia Tech strategic communications assistant, signaled for him to stop talking.
.....
When races began Friday night, many Virginia Tech distance runners wore a blue ribbon on the breast of their jersey. Some of the women’s distance runners tied an additional blue ribbon in their hair. Lovell’s mother has said blue was Nicole’s favorite color.

http://www.richmond.com/sports/coll...cle_83d09580-ccdc-11e5-8d83-13c55809ffbb.html
 
The authors document the childhood neuropsychiatric and family characteristics of nine male subjects who were clinically evaluated as adolescents and were later arrested for murder. Those subjects are compared with 24 incarcerated delinquents who did not go on to commit violent offenses. The future murderers displayed a constellation of biopsychosocial characteristics that included psychotic symptoms, major neurological impairment, a psychotic first-degree relative, violent acts during childhood, and severe physical abuse. The authors relate this combination of factors to prediction of violence and discuss ethical issues that are involved in intervention to prevent violence.

Murder is the most serious of all crimes.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2072934/
interesting

Someone previously said this same thing, but in different words, pertaining to NK: "Malmquist (21) suggested that homicide “can serve the illusory function of saving one's self and ego from destruction by displacing onto someone else the focus of aggressive discharge.”" Looks like they may have been on to something!
 
http://s3.documentcloud.org/documents/2701727/Charging-documents-David-E-Eisenhauer.pdf

http://s3.documentcloud.org/documents/2701754/Charging-documents-Natalie-Keepers.pdf

https://www.documentcloud.org/docum...uments-Natalie-Keepers.html#search/p1/Keepers

I've came across some of these documents before but just wanted to combine and make more of a direct understanding .. When other news outlets attach docs. To the story Along with a bunch of other information I tend to not take all of it in too clearly.

I've stated before that I'm new .. And I am trying to follow what's allowed. If these links are not I will delete post. TY! [emoji89][emoji258]


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
I'm really struck by the fact that Nicole's friend continues to repeat that she did inform the school's resource officer about Nicole's involvement with guys over age 18. To me, she sounds really credible. She does not come across as manipulative or attention seeking IMO. I think it would have been really easy for the resource officer to have put the piece of paper she gave him in his pocket and then forgotten completely about it. To be honest, he may not have taken it seriously. I'm sure he has multiple disciplinary type issues that arise daily which require more immediate attention and this young lady's plea could easily have been set aside and forgotten. It sounds like the resource officer will never admit that he may have dropped the ball. I don't know why it bothers me so much at this point, Nicole is gone and nothing will bring her back. But it does bother me. And of course I could be wrong about the friend's truthfulness.

I don't think you're wrong. Folks have reported here that there was a post to Nicole from the same friend warning her about dating men, so her notifying the SRO fits in with that.

I think it sucks if the SRO is calling this little girl a liar to avoid accepting responsibility.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
http://s3.documentcloud.org/documents/2701727/Charging-documents-David-E-Eisenhauer.pdf

http://s3.documentcloud.org/documents/2701754/Charging-documents-Natalie-Keepers.pdf

I've came across some of these documents before but just wanted to combine and make more of a direct understanding .. When other news outlets attach docs. To the story Along with a bunch of other information I tend to not take all of it in too clearly.

I've stated before that I'm new .. And I am trying to follow what's allowed. If these links are not I will delete post. TY! [emoji89][emoji258]

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

You're doing great Haayturtle.
Thank you for posting these arrest warrants for DE and NK.
 
I don't think you're wrong. Folks have reported here that there was a post to Nicole from the same friend warning her about dating men, so her notifying the SRO fits in with that.

I think it sucks if the SRO is calling this little girl a liar to avoid accepting responsibility.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

This will probably come out at trial. I have missed a lot of this - it sounds like the disagreement is a girl saying she reported concerns about Nicole to the SRO, and the SRO denies that the girl reported concerns? And then the mom is outraged that the girl is called a liar? Is that the gist of the story?
 
This will probably come out at trial. I have missed a lot of this - it sounds like the disagreement is a girl saying she reported concerns about Nicole to the SRO, and the SRO denies that the girl reported concerns? And then the mom is outraged that the girl is called a liar? Is that the gist of the story?

LE also interviewed her on January 28 and she made no mention of her concerns until several days later in the Washington Post.




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So interesting. That's what I said upthread, exactly, about her affect. Flat. She was flat then, she's flat now.

My thoughts from the moment I watched her video she made for school on YouTube.
 
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