VA - Nicole Lovell, 13, Blacksburg, 27 January 2016 #4 *Arrests*

[silverkitty]

We do not know how many wounds Nicole suffered. If it was a throat slitting, likely one person did that. But both are guilty of murder, in some degree. It IS Natalie who has an affection for cutting. I can't believe that she missed the thrill of either doing it or witnessing it. I'm confident that the method of murder was her idea. JMO

The thing is, people who cut themselves don't do it for a thrill, and they don't have an "affection" for it. These teens feel that their lives are totally out of their control, and to relieve their distress and take back some small measure of control over their bodies, they make cuts, most often on their arms.

Not everyone is an expert on mental illness -- I'm certainly not -- but there is information readily available to help sort the truth from fiction (which only snowballs each time it is said).

Likely a knife was used because it was the easiest weapon for two teens to purchase, conceal, and toss, not because NK was morbidly fascinated by stabbing or slashing another person.

JMO etc.

 

[Bootsctr]

Detailed description of the area...makes me think: Could she have been murdered IN Craig Creek (in the creek itself)?

As some others have said, I pray this was quick and Nicole didn't see it coming. Fearing so much that, with the "motivation" looking as it looks to me, torture might have been involved. Please no.

More from BUF's link:

Craig Creek Road, which cuts into the thick woods that form the George Washington and Jefferson National Forest, is in the sloped wilds to the north of Blacksburg, a remote area of rural Virginia that feels a world apart from the teeming university. Virginia Tech students are known to camp and party in the area — and students sometimes come out here to do cleanup projects — a secluded but relatively close escape from campus.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...va-tech-where-nicole-lovell-was-to-be-killed/

Just 15 miles from the center of V Tech campus...

 

[Haayturtle]

From yesterday.

http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/video/virginia-murder-suspect-allegedly-excited-murder-plot-36732423


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[Backwoods]

http://abcnews.go.com/Nightline/vid...ents-allegedly-plotted-13-year-girls-36754309

If posted earlier sorry for repost but this is worth watching as well to any who have not .. IMO


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Another great video. Keep 'em coming, Haayturtle!

 

[Bootsctr]

Leaning toward David killed Nicole here:

Jones said many Virginia Tech students are familiar with the road because of a popular campsite — Campbell Fields — that sits adjacent to the road a few miles from her property. The campsite has its own gruesome history: in 2009, two Virginia Tech students were murdered there in the parking lot by an unknown assailant, a still-unsolved crime.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...va-tech-where-nicole-lovell-was-to-be-killed/

Then he went back and picked Natalie up and she helped put Nicole's body in the trunk and dispose of her body in North Carolina.

 

[IDK]

From yesterday.

http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/video/virginia-murder-suspect-allegedly-excited-murder-plot-36732423


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I'm really struck by the fact that Nicole's friend continues to repeat that she did inform the school's resource officer about Nicole's involvement with guys over age 18. To me, she sounds really credible. She does not come across as manipulative or attention seeking IMO. I think it would have been really easy for the resource officer to have put the piece of paper she gave him in his pocket and then forgotten completely about it. To be honest, he may not have taken it seriously. I'm sure he has multiple disciplinary type issues that arise daily which require more immediate attention and this young lady's plea could easily have been set aside and forgotten. It sounds like the resource officer will never admit that he may have dropped the ball. I don't know why it bothers me so much at this point, Nicole is gone and nothing will bring her back. But it does bother me. And of course I could be wrong about the friend's truthfulness.

 

[Backwoods]

I'm really struck by the fact that Nicole's friend continues to repeat that she did inform the school's resource officer about Nicole's involvement with guys over age 18. To me, she sounds really credible. She does not come across as manipulative or attention seeking IMO. I think it would have been really easy for the resource officer to have put the piece of paper she gave him in his pocket and then forgotten completely about it. To be honest, he may not have taken it seriously. I'm sure he has multiple disciplinary type issues that arise daily which require more immediate attention and this young lady's plea could easily have been set aside and forgotten. It sounds like the resource officer will never admit that he may have dropped the ball. I don't know why it bothers me so much at this point, Nicole is gone and nothing will bring her back. But it does bother me. And of course I could be wrong about the friend's truthfulness.

I pretty much agree.

Sure not "blaming" the RO for Nicole's murder -- easy to see how he could have misinterpreted the concern, forgotten, put it off while attending to something more pressing, etc. --and if he does end up remembering "something" -- I don't wish for him to be tortured in his own mind by being human and thus prone, as we all can be, to error.

For the friend, if she did indeed make a report of some kind (and I, too, think she probably did), however brief or cryptic it may have been, I'm glad she did -- I think it will help her some small bit in coping with this. She'll know she tried.

 

[Historydetective63]

Many people engage in self-harming behaviors, especially teenagers. It's pretty common. As gruesome as it may seem from the outside, self-harm doesn't generally correspond to violent behavior toward others. NK seems to be an exception. I continue to wonder about the possibility that she suffered TBI.

I agree. From what I know about self-harming behavior like cutting it does not correspond or predict violent behavior toward others. And I have been told that the cutting is not an attempt at suicide but rather provides the cutter with an outlet for their pent up emotions and stress. They are often individuals who do not feel that they can express their feelings verbally for whatever reason.

Why do you say you wonder if she suffered TBI (Traumatic Brain Injury)?

 

[Bootsctr]

I'm really struck by the fact that Nicole's friend continues to repeat that she did inform the school's resource officer about Nicole's involvement with guys over age 18. To me, she sounds really credible. She does not come across as manipulative or attention seeking IMO. I think it would have been really easy for the resource officer to have put the piece of paper she gave him in his pocket and then forgotten completely about it. To be honest, he may not have taken it seriously. I'm sure he has multiple disciplinary type issues that arise daily which require more immediate attention and this young lady's plea could easily have been set aside and forgotten. It sounds like the resource officer will never admit that he may have dropped the ball. I don't know why it bothers me so much at this point, Nicole is gone and nothing will bring her back. But it does bother me. And of course I could be wrong about the friend's truthfulness.

In light of Haayturtle's most excellent video of the girl speaking for herself, I believe her too. There was another friend that spoke out, but not prior to Nicole's murder. Her classmates/friends were aware that something was wrong with the guys she was contacting and who were contacting her.

 

[Backwoods]

I agree. From what I know about self-harming behavior like cutting it does not correspond or predict violent behavior toward others. And I have been told that the cutting is not an attempt at suicide but rather provides the cutter with an outlet for their pent up emotions and stress. They are often individuals who do not feel that they can express their feelings verbally for whatever reason.

Why do you say you wonder if she suffered TBI (Traumatic Brain Injury)?

I'm not the poster you quoted, but I believe that in the previous thread that poster noted from some social media that NK may have suffered a concussion at some time fairly recently -- thinking maybe within the last six months or so but not sure. I believe the poster said NK made reference to a concussion on social media

 

[wgram]

At break time not so much activity. It's possible both weren't there at the time, highly unlikely though. I'd say they were both in on it from beginning to the bitter end. She was thrilled to be in on this, do you think she'd be left out?

Classes began the 19th of January. There likely was a lot of activity during the time that Nicole was being murdered. Students had returned to campus and had just started the semester. I am inclined to doubt that they murdered her in the dorm. Caldwell Fields and Craig Creek seems risky since the roads were likely bad. I am not sure she would have been killed there for lack of being able to get in there

 

[Doghairrules]

http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/video/fbi-profiler-analyzes-virginia-murder-mystery-36708746

Not sure if this has been posted but it made me second guess my personal
Thoughts on the real manipulator in this case. My opinion all along has been that NK was the same if not more involved in the making of this devilish happening. Watching this former profiler speak on DE and his ability to mislead people easily. . Idk .. ?!?! I still lean more toward NK due to the lack of soul in her eye. JMO... It's crazy to see how this case has progressed from little to no info-------> information overindulge. [emoji15]


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I found the part about evolutionary behavior very interesting. I had been thinking along those same lines, but without the sophisticated thought process. It will be interesting to see what comes out about both of them.

My niece is a junior at VA Tech and I'm from Virginia. I'm soooo glad she is doing a semester overseas right now.


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[Haayturtle]

I found the part about evolutionary behavior very interesting. I had been thinking along those same lines, but without the sophisticated thought process. It will be interesting to see what comes out about both of them.

My niece is a junior at VA Tech and I'm from Virginia. I'm soooo glad she is doing a semester overseas right now.


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I found the part of evolutionary behavior interesting as well!


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[RicksPlace]

Listen to Natalie Keepers' college employment rant.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=HPN3qYGIChs

 

[Haayturtle]

Just because of the Evolutionary Behavior shoutout ! [emoji4]



http://www.wwnorton.com/college/anthro/bioanth/ch18/chap18.htm
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[Elainera]

Yes, an awful mess. Still want to know where they cleaned themselves up before they went into Walmart for cleaning supplies after. Did they bring a change of clothes? It was pretty cold & snowing then.

Walmart will have video of them in the store if in fact that did happen.

I think it was only stated by the prosecutor that it was stabbing. The throat slashing came from NK...correct?

As far as I remember NK said they decided on throat slashing but it was never said if that in fact was what they did. They might have changed their minds.

I guess they must have brought a change of clothes nonetheless. I was wondering earlier whether they threw the bloody clothes in the pond.

 

[Bootsctr]

Listen to Natalie Keepers' college employment rant.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=HPN3qYGIChs

She has a very flat affect... JMO!

 

[passionflower]

Why did they choose that date?
Weather was cold, were ponds frozen over?
A winter storm was on it's way to the east coast.
Why did they choose to meet and start planning this evil deed Jan 4th?
Did something happen around Christmas and NY day?
so many questions.....

 

[kaen]

Why did they choose to meet and start planning this evil deed Jan 4th?
Did something happen around Christmas and NY day?
so many questions.....

No excuses for their actions but I have wondered if 1st semester grades came in and were disappointing. Both DE and NK had a tough fall-- mono and appendicitis. NK was anxious about her performance generally. DE had not done well in races. They chose the scary place where a murder had occurred. Maybe they were trying to be famous/infamous.

 

[passionflower]

The authors document the childhood neuropsychiatric and family characteristics of nine male subjects who were clinically evaluated as adolescents and were later arrested for murder. Those subjects are compared with 24 incarcerated delinquents who did not go on to commit violent offenses. The future murderers displayed a constellation of biopsychosocial characteristics that included psychotic symptoms, major neurological impairment, a psychotic first-degree relative, violent acts during childhood, and severe physical abuse. The authors relate this combination of factors to prediction of violence and discuss ethical issues that are involved in intervention to prevent violence.

Murder is the most serious of all crimes.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2072934/
interesting