VA - Nicole Lovell, 13, Blacksburg, 27 January 2016 #5 *Arrests*

[Bootsctr]

Hey Dateline, That happens all of the time nowadays. 13 year olds aren't what they used to be. Young girls flirt with and crush on older guys all of the time online and in real life. And all that would matter to DE would be legalities, like what's illegal, what's not: like having sex with a minor is illegal. I don't think just meeting up with her would be enough of a stressor for him to kill her if something very illegal didn't occur. Even giving her alcohol wouldn't be enough reason imo to kill her since he would probably just get a slap on the wrist and no jail time. I also think as she was posing as a UVA student online that he may have met her online over summer while awaiting the start of school and probably thought she was at least 18. A lot of kids start looking online for friends in their new school area just prior to the freshmen year. It will be interesting to see when exactly they first made contact online. I really hope this trial is open to public so we can at least get some news reports.

me too!

 

[Nationals]

Oh, I understand what you're saying. One of my brothers is a teenager, and I was one not long ago. I think part of where we have different opinions is that it sounds like you think the motivation behind the murder was to keep NL quiet. I don't necessarily think that's the case at this point. Of course, I could be wrong. I am not clear on what I believe the motive was, yet. The only thing I'm sure of is that DE and NK are evil, and wanted to commit murder.

Yeah, I agree with that, both are evil and I believe remorseless, but I am not set on any motive either yet, just tossing ideas around in my head. One other thing I want to point out is that on Nicole's Instagram his real name is "David" and he used his real picture, so thinking about it... If he were trolling for little girls for sex it seems like he'd use a totally fake pic and name. Hmmmm. Yeah I bet he thought she was a college student at first.

 

[Nationals]

I completely agree with most of this. But by law isn't it abduction no matter what?

Not sure. Maybe if he knew her age, yeah, or if he trapped her in car and she was unable to leave.

 

[Nationals]

Legal Question -

Does anyone know if DE is required to make a statement to prosecutor or cops or anyone before trial? And if he doesn't does it look really bad? Arias was interviewed for hours by cops, remember? I wonder if he was.

 

[ykw]

Legal Question -

Does anyone know if DE is required to make a statement to prosecutor or cops or anyone before trial? And if he doesn't does it look really bad? Arias was interviewed for hours by cops, remember? I wonder if he was.

Amendment V

No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the militia, when in actual service in time of war or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offense to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use without just compensation.

 

[DatelineFan]

Yeah, I agree with that, both are evil and I believe remorseless, but I am not set on any motive either yet, just tossing ideas around in my head. One other thing I want to point out is that on Nicole's Instagram his real name is "David" and he used his real picture, so thinking about it... If he were trolling for little girls for sex it seems like he'd use a totally fake pic and name. Hmmmm. Yeah I bet he thought she was a college student at first.

About the last part, I don't know. Her posts were extremely immature for a college, or even high school student. I don't believe for one second that he thought she was 18 or over. And if he did, it was brief. I find it hard to believe he's that obtuse. You know?

 

[Mollyandme]

Cops said inappropriate relationship. Of course they had some sexual contact. His car was seen there more than once. Why would he come around her if she wasn't doing something for him. And why would he resort to killing her if he didn't "go there." Yes, sex for sure.

I don't think we will know the extent of what LE described as an "inappropriate relationship" until trial or if charges relating specifically to the "inappropriate relationship" are added. It's possible that DE was still in the grooming process of Nicole, which does provide a psychological thrill for the "groomer" if that was the case. The grooming process can last for weeks or longer because the predator wants to test the boundaries and see if they can trust the intended victim not to tell. This also includes in person meetings, not just online. So it is possible that he didn't "go there" yet physically but still had motive in his sick twisted mind to kill her. Likewise, it's also definitely possible that your opinion in your post is correct. I don't have a strong opinion either way at this point. I find the whole case heartbreaking and horrific. Hopefully the investigation will provide an answer to this so that DE can be charged accordingly.

 

[whiskers]

I agree. I feel someone is lying, too. Or they will both keep pointing fingers. What I typed was reaching for something else. Anything else. The more I think about this case, the muddier it becomes. I feel like I had better clarity a few weeks ago.

As an aside, because I don't want to add a new post, I do a lot of work on Instagram. For work, I run ads on different Insta accounts that have millions of followers. The tweens don't understand that these accounts are basically for ads only. When the ad is posted, people make comments under the photo. But it's the tweens and really young kids that don't understand it's advertising only. Their comments are sad. Some of them literally have meltdowns because you don't go and like their photos. They are literally begging for likes and attention.

Even before this case happened, I wondered to some of my colleagues how kids handle social media because as an adult, it can be stressful. I can't imaging being 13, impressionable, and having the weight of keeping up with social media. And some of these kids are seeing images, ads, etc. and they have no idea what's really going on.

Hey Whiskers, the only problem with her killing herself is, why would NK say "I saw DE kill her." Also why would NK be there at all if they weren't planning something strange. We really don't know yet exactly how or when NK got in the car or if she was even there when NL died. We've heard, DE hugged NL and went to NKs dorm, picked up NK, we picked up Nk, we went to NKs dorm, so many variations. Right now we just don't know what really went down that night other than bits and pieces from these liars mouths. The little bits that have leaked by them have already changed too so, they are both proven liars. The girl is dead and they are both saying they didn't do it. Someone's lying.

 

[Backwoods]

For the integrity of the case, because they are smart. They don't owe the public anything. It will all leak out come March 23 when DE shows up in court, if it's not delayed. Regarding your supposition that maybe DE joked around about killing her and NK took it literally... There is actually some mental disorder where the person takes everything literally and is unable to know the difference. I think some autistics are that way as well. Similar to Dr. Sheldon Cooper in BBT.

Do you guys think these two will be tried separately?

Sorry, I must not have been too clear with that part: I didn't suppose that DE joked and NK took it literally. I said maybe DE joked and they both for a bit took up a kind of dark joking about murder as the answer (nonmurderous folks do that, sometimes), both knowingly joking -- but then got to a different plan, a real plan, about confronting, talking to, scaring, whatever, but not murder.

My reason for even proposing that hypothesis was as explanation for why there would be "soundbites" (quotes scattered here and there in print, actually) of NK referring to comments about slitting throats, etc. I was thinking that, when LE was interrogating NK, she might have revisited that DE conferred with her about the "Nicole problem". Since Nicole is now dead, NK may have been asked if their discussion ever involved scenarios of violence/murder. She might have (honestly) answered, well, yes...but only as joking. But with Nicole dead, LE likely would not have taken that at face value.

One really weird twist is that, if DE and NK DID joke about murder but then move on to a real-life plan not involving violence...and if NK really did not see Nicole receive the fatal wound (and most media reports seem to say NK has said she did not witness that) -- then I'd think NK would at some point have to have her own doubts about whether Nicole stabbed herself...say, if that's what David told NK happened.

As for being tried separately. Wow, I really don't know. But I will say: Just my own current hunch is that one or both cases may not get to trial. I think we may see some pleas.

 

[Bootsctr]

If Keepers was trolling as Eisenhauer she probably was using his real name and picture. I mean if you really wanted to screw somebody over and she had access to his phone and computer you would use his real name and photo.

 

[whiskers]

If Keepers was trolling as Eisenhauer she probably was using his real name and picture. I mean if you really wanted to screw somebody over and she had access to his phone and computer you would use his real name and photo.

Agree. The person who trolled me online used my real name and photo. He was ghosting as me.

 

[Bootsctr]

Sorry, I must not have been too clear with that part: I didn't suppose that DE joked and NK took it literally. I said maybe DE joked and they both for a bit took up a kind of dark joking about murder as the answer (nonmurderous folks do that, sometimes), both knowingly joking -- but then got to a different plan, a real plan, about confronting, talking to, scaring, whatever, but not murder.

My reason for even proposing that hypothesis was as explanation for why there would be "soundbites" (quotes scattered here and there in print, actually) of NK referring to comments about slitting throats, etc. I was thinking that, when LE was interrogating NK, she might have revisited that DE conferred with her about the "Nicole problem". Since Nicole is now dead, NK may have been asked if their discussion ever involved scenarios of violence/murder. She might have (honestly) answered, well, yes...but only as joking. But with Nicole dead, LE likely would not have taken that at face value.

One really weird twist is that, if DE and NK DID joke about murder but then move on to a real-life plan not involving violence...and if NK really did not see Nicole receive the fatal wound (and most media reports seem to say NK has said she did not witness that) -- then I'd think NK would at some point have to have her own doubts about whether Nicole stabbed herself...say, if that's what David told NK happened.

As for being tried separately. Wow, I really don't know. But I will say: Just my own current hunch is that one or both cases may not got to trial. I think we may see some pleas.

bbm Yes, but only for Keepers. Your post has me thinking Keepers actually spent some time thinking what she would tell LE. She had to have thought she would tell the police, or she is telling the truth. Did LE tell her when they brought her in that DE was talking and he was telling them that she (Keepers) was the murderer? We don't know how long she was questioned. How many versions did she tell before LE was satisfied? 1, 2, 3? She had already counted on DE throwing her under the bus??

 

[Bootsctr]

Agree. The person who trolled me online used my real name and photo. He was ghosting as me.

Ghosting.... That's a horrible crime! I cannot remember... Did he get caught and punished accordingly?

 

[courtneyb]

DE didn't need NK's help to carry out a murder, but NK would have needed DE.

The second stop for cleaning supplies in light of knowing that they plotted the murder since January 4, screams to me that something unexpected happened. They plot for weeks, meaning to me that they discussed the method they would use, yet they didn't anticipate the bloody mess that happens when they (cut, stabbed) murdered this poor girl??

Add those two things together (who would need help and the 2nd store visit) and it makes me believe that NK was MUCH more involved, probably carried out the actual murder, deviating from the "plan" that she had plotted with DE. Perhaps she never actually made DE privy to the real plan.


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[whiskers]

Ghosting.... That's a horrible crime! I cannot remember... Did he get caught and punished accordingly?

No. And my LE didn't see it as a threat. But that's for another time. Luckily he hasn't done it in a while and the cyber stalking in other areas is quiet for the moment.

Sadly trolling happens a lot online. That's why last night I'd wondered if trolling was a part or even small part of this case.

 

[Nationals]

Amendment V

No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the militia, when in actual service in time of war or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offense to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use without just compensation.

If he doesn't answer their questions though doesn't it look really bad for him? Imagine, Arias talked for days and days and didn't even need to. Crazy.

 

[Bootsctr]

DE didn't need NK's help to carry out a murder, but NK would have needed DE.

The second stop for cleaning supplies in light of knowing that they plotted the murder since January 4, screams to me that something unexpected happened. They plot for weeks, meaning to me that they discussed the method they would use, yet they didn't anticipate the bloody mess that happens when they (cut, stabbed) murdered this poor girl??

Add those two things together (who would need help and the 2nd store visit) and it makes me believe that NK was MUCH more involved, probably carried out the actual murder, deviating from the "plan" that she had plotted with DE. Perhaps she never actually made DE privy to the real plan.


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That makes much more sense to me now! I wonder if Natalie stabbed Nicole in David's car? Although I think LE did locate where Nicole was stabbed, so probably outside of the car - unless Keepers jumped the gun a bit in a murderous frenzy!

Wouldn't they have purchased a tarp too ahead of time if they were going to transport a stabbing victim to a further location after the fact? This is just too weird!

 

[Bootsctr]

No. And my LE didn't see it as a threat. But that's for another time. Luckily he hasn't done it in a while and the cyber stalking in other areas is quiet for the moment.

Sadly trolling happens a lot online. That's why last night I'd wondered if trolling was a part or even small part of this case.

Ugh! That's disgusting! :sick: At least LE is aware of the person... Still that is just sooooo creepy! There is just something seriously wrong with a person who does that kind of stuff...

 

[Bootsctr]

If he doesn't answer their questions though doesn't it look really bad for him? Imagine, Arias talked for days and days and didn't even need to. Crazy.

Yes, but she is a fame ######. She loves attention. DE not so much! Keepers - probably similar to Arias.

Just thinking, actually LE must believe she played a much bigger part than she led them to believe. She got no bail and it doesn't look like she's going anywhere for a while either. LE must be sorting through tons of SM crap.

 

[Nationals]

About the last part, I don't know. Her posts were extremely immature for a college, or even high school student. I don't believe for one second that he thought she was 18 or over. And if he did, it was brief. I find it hard to believe he's that obtuse. You know?

Yeah, I hear you. Not sure though. He left such a huge blatant trail if he had ill intent and he had a lot to lose by even having sex with a minor much less killing one. He was stupid enough to do that and leave this huge trail, so who knows. It will be interesting to see if the IPs match up to the e communications he had with her every time or if NK was also involved, posing as him. I bet the computer forensic people are having a field day with this one.