VERDICT WATCH - Sentencing of Jodi Arias - Break 2/27 thru 3/2 #2

[Steely Dan]

I remember there was a juror question about it. So yes, they heard it.



ETA: Juror Questions and answers


33) re: the 9mm gun that you purchased on July 1, 2008. Who was going on the camping trip? A: two dishwashers from Purple Plum, Calvin and another guy I don't remember his name, and a few other people. I think there were other women going but I don't know.

34) why were you planning on going if you were scared? A: I wasn't scared, just cautious I was trying to be cautious. I had seen a new sign of what a man could do.




Here is a great thread that WS had just for Juror questions in the guilt phase.

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...-s-questions-and-Jodi-s-answers-no-discussion

BBM

Man?

Not to mention that one of the means that she'll use to befriend her fellow inmates will likely be convincing them that they are also a victim of DV.
And that being a victim of DV is the real reason they ended up where they are today, just like her. She may even start a "support group" for victims just like her. :scared:
And the fact that her version of reality has nothing to do with reality won't matter to her as her life of lies and deception define what she is.

She can name her friends Doc, Dopey, Sleepy, Grumpy, Bashful, Sneezy, Happy and Deluded.

Dr. Demarte diagnosed Arias with BPD, and I trust Dr. Demarte. BPD is characterized by instability, and extreme reaction to rejection and/or abandonment (real or perceived). Arias became obsessed with Travis, everyone admits that. He represented something important to her and I don't think it was only his net worth, which wasn't very high. His rejection cut her much more deeply than she would ever admit, in fact she went to great lengths to make it sound like their whole relationship was no big deal to her. That is the exact opposite of the truth. Arias didn't have a reputation other than occasional waitress who glommed onto guys and obsessed over them, and someone who wanted to look like an entrepreneur and artist, but failed. Now she may not have realized that was her reputation, but testimony showed us that's what it was.

There was absolutely emotional rage and you can see it in the number of stab wounds to Travis' body. That's rage right there. Your opinion of her motive and calculating is interesting, but does not match either the facts of the case, Demarte's diagnosis, or the disordered crime scene. She wasn't evaluating data points, she was in pure "if I can't have you, no one else will have you" jealous obsession and rage. Overkill is all about rage. Stabbing someone is personal. This was a rage killing, pure and simple.

Great post.

I wonder if there was any way that Travis was going to survive that encounter. If he had asked Jodi to go to Cancun and to marry him, would he still be alive?

 

[knt]

See it in his nostril (on our right)? And the lip?

View attachment 70416

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Great observation Geevee. I just commented on the Crime Scene Animator thread that I can see the toes you worked so hard to point out to everyone. Good job.

 

[Val1]

The camera and Sony memory card was new though. Purchased after JA moved from AZ. So how could old pictures of them be on it?

Next to that, Jodi would have had to be a brunette.

What you're suggesting seems like a very complicated alternative when the fitness band around his arm (later found in the bathroom), Jodi's hair color, exif data, etc all point to the pics being taken that day.

The other explanations provided all seem to depend on MORE unproven things (manipulated exif data, other memory card etc) ttan the explanation provided in court.

BBM - Why do people keeping saying this... she had brown hair with blonde highlights in the nude pics(the exact same as at least a few other pics we've seen of her taken right around the time she had left Mesa in the beginning of April, as well as that one date stamped May 25, 2008 with her brother Joey), quite a bit different than the dark brunette(almost black) hair with no highlights that she was sporting in her June 3 selfies. Btw, that fitness band or silver tape as some have described it, was found in the laundry room, not the bedroom. It could have come from JA, perhaps something she had used to secure her knife or gun on herself.

As for the court explanation, I believe the PT probably adhere to the KISS method when possible, simply because it's not as hard to explain between objections.

 

[Steely Dan]

Why do people keeping saying this... she had brown hair with blonde highlights in the nude pics(the exact same as at least a few other pics we've seen of her taken right around the time she had left Mesa in the beginning of April, as well as that one date stamped May 25, 2008 with her brother Joey), quite a bit different than the dark brunette(almost black) hair with no highlights that she was sporting in her June 3 selfies.

View attachment 70420

Wow her eyes in the black and white picture are terrifying. She's got the whole psycho eyes going on. :scared:

 

[Madeleine74]

Respectfully snipped. BBM: "JA was all about her image and reputation when it came to interacting with others ... " Not news to those of following this case. But? Still sad. And maddening.

Honestly those same words describe about 95% of the people I've interacted with at work, at parties, at social functions. What we see are the masks people present to us. That's the case for most adults. Children do not yet have those masks in place (ever hear "out of the mouth of babes?"). The real story is what's going on beneath the veneer of image and reputation. Like politicians who cheat on their wives and get caught with prostitutes. CEOs who end up in prison for embezzlement. Priests who seem so pious and are really abusers. The mommies who look like they have it all together but have a secret drinking or drug problem.

 

[Steely Dan]

Honestly those same words describe about 95% of the people I've interacted with at work, at parties, at social functions. What we see are the masks people present to us. That's the case for most adults. Children do not yet have those masks in place (ever hear "out of the mouth of babes?"). The real story is what's going on beneath the veneer of image and reputation. Like politicians who cheat on their wives and get caught with prostitutes. CEOs who end up in prison for embezzlement. Priests who seem so pious and are really abusers. The mommies who look like they have it all together but have a secret drinking or drug problem.

[video=youtube;qdLPI6XhEN8]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qdLPI6XhEN8[/video]

 

[Reagan]

I'm rewatching some trial clips. I just watched the Lisa testimony. If you watch Jodi closely she looks silently enraged. Her eyes look pitch black, so evil. She looks so ticked when Lisa mentioned Travis talking about marriage very early on.

Also... I really think Arias bought that gun to murder again. I think she wanted more revenge and realized she was getting busted eventually so might as well continue on and cause as much criminal activity as possible.

I also think she got the gun so when the cops asked her if she had a .25 she could say, "I have a 9mm, but not a .25... so surely it wasn't me who shot travis".
She tried to point Flores in that direction by randomly bringing up guns. When Flores walked into the interrogation room, she asked "what kind of gun is that?...I just bought a gun".

 

[geevee]

You notice, though, that the car rental guy was only allowed to say "koolaid stains", nothing about the color. Red stains would have made a hugh difference to the jury, but I'm sure Nurmi got the color of those stains barred.

On Day 2 of the interrogation (post #32 of transcription here) she said:

26:10
JA: It’s all a blur. Can I please see those photos?

26:13
DF: As soon as they get back. Those detectives went to Reading to go pick up the rental car that you had that day and they took the photos.

26:26
JA: There’s probably something in the rental car.

26:29
DF: Like what

26:30
JA: Maybe blood. I don’t know.

26:34
DF: In the trunk? In the back seat?
That’s what we’re going to look for, so...

26:41
JA: I was just thinking maybe the handles, locks, steering wheel, things like that, things that get touched.
---

I'm sort of suprised they didn't find any DNA in that rental. Or at least that we heard about. She asked to see the photos so many times. :facepalm:

 

[Madeleine74]

I wonder if there was any way that Travis was going to survive that encounter. If he had asked Jodi to go to Cancun and to marry him, would he still be alive?

I believe if he had switched that encounter around, invited her to Cancun (at least) he would have survived that day and there would not have been any attack. I think their time together ended up cementing the rejection and abandonment in her mind. Remember she spent hours with him at his house. This wasn't just a 'hit.' I don't think it would have taken a marriage proposal, just him stating he wanted her to be his guest on his Cancun trip would have delighted her, even if she pretended to all she didn't care. She did care. Very much. She wanted to be accepted by him and she wanted to be his girlfriend, no matter what she claims.

 

[TexMex]

BBM - Why do people keeping saying this... she had brown hair with blonde highlights in the nude pics(the exact same as at least a few other pics we've seen of her taken right around the time she had left Mesa in the beginning of April, as well as that one date stamped May 25, 2008 with her brother Joey), quite a bit different than the dark brunette(almost black) hair with no highlights that she was sporting in her June 3 selfies. Btw, that fitness band or silver tape as some have described it, was found in the laundry room, not the bedroom. It could have come from JA, perhaps something she had used to secure her knife or gun on herself.

As for the court explanation, I believe the PT probably adhere to the KISS method when possible, simply because it's not as hard to explain between objections

Comparing hair color in different lighting is not really informative. The pic in car is in natural light. The June 4 pic is in a bedroom with the shades drawn and recovered from a blurry thumbnail that had been through a wash/bleach cycle. That being said she ain't blonde. She even tells Flores that the neighbors wouldn't recognize her at Travis's house that day because she was a platinum blonde when she left. The ky bottle is in the braids pic as well. Both sides agree that this pic is from June 4 even though it was one of two pics where the time stamp was not recovered

 

[neesaki]

And even more than that, look at the two prior photos, one where he's going down to the shower floor so rapidly he bangs his nose and mouth on his knee, and the next where he looks stunned - there was nothing light-hearted or fun in those last photos, you can see blood beginning to trickle from his nose in the full face shot and his upper lip swelling and the eye beginning to water - he was not casually looking over camera pics and deciding which ones looked good or which he 'hated'.

Hi GeeVee, I haven't looked at the photos in a while, but which one is it that you see him "bang his nose and mouth on his knee". I agree totally, they weren't photos by consent. I fully believe she completely snuck up on him. These photos have haunted me from the beginning, TIA

 

[Val1]

Comparing hair color in different lighting is not really informative. The pic in car is in natural light. The June 4 pic is in a bedroom with the shades drawn and recovered from a blurry thumbnail that had been through a wash/bleach cycle. That being said she ain't blonde. She even tells Flores that the neighbors wouldn't recognize her at Travis's house that day because she was a platinum blonde when she left. The ky bottle is in the braids pic as well. Both sides agree that this pic is from June 4 even though it was one of two pics where the time stamp was not recovered

Of course they both agreed, it helped both sides in different ways... the PT because it made it easier to show the jury she had been there that day when really all they needed was the DNA and prints, and the DT because it helped them argue why she couldn't have premeditated killing him, that she must have "snapped", oh and of course if they do indeed have proof that they were from a prior time(from any or all of JA's "broken" laptop/harddrive/multiple phones) then all the better to appeal with. As for the lighting.. just how black do you think her dark brunette should have looked in that dark bedroom, do you think it suddenly looked lighter than when she actually had blonde streaks?

 

[geevee]

Great observation Geevee. I just commented on the Crime Scene Animator thread that I can see the toes you worked so hard to point out to everyone. Good job.

Thanks knt , I try not to be a pest about the things I find (and probably fail badly in that regard lol) but I just want everyone to be able to see the things I've found while studying the pics. Lordy I don't know what I'll do when this is all finally done and over, have sleuth-withdrawal I suppose. But I'm very much looking forward to the release of the digital pics, then everyone ought to have a clearer view of everything in the pics.

 

[Steely Dan]

I believe if he had switched that encounter around, invited her to Cancun (at least) he would have survived that day and there would not have been any attack. I think their time together ended up cementing the rejection and abandonment in her mind. Remember she spent hours with him at his house. This wasn't just a 'hit.' I don't think it would have taken a marriage proposal, just him stating he wanted her to be his guest on his Cancun trip would have delighted her, even if she pretended to all she didn't care. She did care. Very much. She wanted to be accepted by him and she wanted to be his girlfriend, no matter what she claims.

I think she was setting up to be Mrs. Travis Alexander. Her relationship (not physical, just business) with Gus was to help her slide in right next to Travis as one of the big wigs of PPL. Everything she wanted out of life was wrapped up in Travis. He could be her husband, her business partner, and the winner of the I landed Travis contenders. When it became evident that he had no interest in her other than sexual she flipped out. I think she thought using sex was the way to reel him in. In fact it turned him off of her being a serious contender. When all of this added up in her mind the plan to blackmail Travis with the phone call was hatched. When that didn't work, it was just about over. He might have saved himself that day, but I wonder if he'd still be alive today anyway. Would he have done something to really set her off?

 

[Madeleine74]

The drive to make Arias seem so much more than what she is, is something I've always found interesting.

She's a personality disordered, mentally unhealthy adult who murdered one person. That's it. Her violence stems from the reaction to the level of rejection and abandonment she perceived. This is not an unusual type of crime. It's actually very common. Jealousy, rage, abandonment also aren't unusual motives. Had Arias successfully killed TA with 1 gun shot and then left, this case wouldn't seem nearly as interesting.

It's the way it played out that made it seem like so much more. This otherwise normal looking woman, who had some people fooled (but certainly not all or even most) expressed her rage in a way that most women never do. And of course the media attention where there is an angle to publicize a crime (young people, secretly having sex, attractive woman by some standards, normal guy, twisted relationship, kinky sex). The kinky sex angle and the amount of blood and gore are what captured and catapulted this story. And then the games played after the murder and through the media.

Women follow this case far more than men and women despise with the heat of a thousand suns another woman who murders a "nice guy." The murdering woman has to be seen as a "she-devil" AND in the ultimate insult, she must be called derogatory names about her appearance (as if that actually matters).

 

[mydirtysecret]

Comparing hair color in different lighting is not really informative. The pic in car is in natural light. The June 4 pic is in a bedroom with the shades drawn and recovered from a blurry thumbnail that had been through a wash/bleach cycle. That being said she ain't blonde. She even tells Flores that the neighbors wouldn't recognize her at Travis's house that day because she was a platinum blonde when she left. The ky bottle is in the braids pic as well. Both sides agree that this pic is from June 4 even though it was one of two pics where the time stamp was not recovered

Not to mention there isn't much hair at all to "compare" in either pics. Plus when i box dye my hair it is very dark the first few shampoos. It could have easily washed out color I. one day with a cheap temporary box dye

 

[TexMex]

Of course they both agreed, it helped both sides in different ways... the PT because it made it easier to show the jury she had been there that day when really all they needed was the DNA and prints, and the DT because it helped them argue why she couldn't have premeditated killing him, that she must have "snapped", oh and of course if they do indeed have proof that they were from a prior time(from any or all of JA's "broken" laptop/harddrive/multiple phones) then all the better to appeal with. As for the lighting.. just how black do you think her dark brunette should have looked in that dark bedroom, do you think it suddenly looked lighter than when she actually had blonde streaks?

It looks brunette.
The sworn testimony is she's blonde at car rental and pics on June 3 and 4 show a brunette.

 

[Val1]

Wow her eyes in the black and white picture are terrifying. She's got the whole psycho eyes going on. :scared:

Not as bad as this one...

 

[neesaki]

See it in his nostril (on our right)? And the lip?

View attachment 70416

Click if it doesn't come full-sized

I think you're right Geevee.

 

[Madeleine74]

I think she was setting up to be Mrs. Travis Alexander. Her relationship (not physical, just business) with Gus was to help her slide in right next to Travis as one of the big wigs of PPL. Everything she wanted out of life was wrapped up in Travis. He could be her husband, her business partner, and the winner of the I landed Travis contenders. When it became evident that he had no interest in her other than sexual she flipped out. I think she thought using sex was the way to reel him in. In fact it turned him off of her being a serious contender. When all of this added up in her mind the plan to blackmail Travis with the phone call was hatched. When that didn't work, it was just about over. He might have saved himself that day, but I wonder if he'd still be alive today anyway. Would he have done something to really set her off?

Hard to say what would have or could have happened that fateful day. She went there with a plan and ended up carrying out some form of the plan. I don't think it all went down the way she envisioned, not in the least.

At one time she could have fantasized about being Mrs. T.A. sure, but then at some other point she obviously realized that wasn't going to happen. She met Gus first, right? So Gus showed her a potential for what she thought might be easy money and looking important. TA carried himself in just that way. He looked the part, walked the walk, talked the talk.

By the point she moved away from Mesa, she knew she was never going to be Mrs. T.A. The plot to kill him happened, I believe, later, and partly as a result of what went down in those horrible text messages. I think that pushed her over the edge, though she was probably already teetering close to it. She had been and continued to be obsessed about Travis. Obsession is not a pleasant emotion, not even close to pleasant. It is a torturous feeling and someone in the grip of it is suffering because it is painful. But it's how one chooses to deal with it. Getting help, therapy, even meds if necessary. Not destroying the object of the obsession, which is what JA (and many others) do.