Victim - Melissa Barthelemy

[Emre E]

Thank you for taking your time for a detailed view.

I think when looking at the "facts" of the case it seems it is more plausible that they were "snatched" not "walked themselves into a cobweb". I feel the need to thank Peter Brendt for his excellent work on Megan's case. I wish he would be back.

What you and I differ is; you say LISK stalked them, what I say is LISK (Band) has an extracurricular activity of prowling around motels hotels to rape and rob. What I mean is; they may have developed an "eye" to spot prostitutes. They may not need a regular stalking phase.

For Melissa, I feel like LISK already laid eyes on her. Remember she walked the streets for a long time. LISK probably knows who she is, who her pimp is. Again, this is not a dedicated stalking, just observing.

According to Dave; there's a john, who sounds creepy from the other room, he offers an unusual amount of money and tells Amber to come alone and not to take her phone. It's a gallery of red flags and although I think Amber may have taken wrong decisions in her life because of drugs, I don't think she would fall for it.

I think Dave Schaller's testimony is total bull..t fed to him by the police. To add mystery smoke on a case which they have no intention to solve. Dave is a pimp, kinda drug dealer, turns nasty tricks on johns and no charges were pressed against him for anything. He sells the nonsense story to save his fat . ss. IMHO

Read (qutoe from Lost Girls, Robert Kolker)

“Oh, okay,” said Mari. “And my daughter’s cell phone and purse have never been found.”
“Megan’s hasn’t been found, neither,” said Lorraine.
“My sister had her phone,” said Kim,



I think GB4 being petite is kind of a coincidence.. And actually Megan isn't. She's 145-150 lbs. 5.5 height is also not bad for a woman.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v242/KellyJolkowski/MeganPoster.jpg

One common denominator is they were on the street alone and without protection.
Melissa is off with Terry, working alone
Maureen is left alone in Manhattan
Megan is out of the hotel, probably going to the concession store.
Amber, for whatever reason, is alone.

Yet, I think the more striking common aspect is they are "pretty". They are pretty girl next door types. A commodity johns pay good for. Which brings them money but unfo makes them preferred targets for a rape&rob crew.


I don't think Maureen is the first victim.

Maureen's case is truly interesting and I think we catch a glimpse of LISK. A man (let's call him Mike) robs her and Maureen's phone goes dead. I think during that time Maureen didn't have her phone. If you read Lost Girls you'll get a better picture of what I'm surmising.

Mike sees Maureen and Sara. Two girls from out of the town. Pretty ones. Making enough money to hire rooms in Manhattan. They don't have pimps or muscle power, only two nerdy guys. The next day Maureen is alone in the room. What I think is she was assaulted in the room, and somehow she got out. Maybe she ran when a cleaning lady came in or perhaps she pleaded for her life.

I can bet real money that she tried to tell the hotel people what happened but they just laughed off. Probable that she was intimidated by the band seriously to keep her mouth shut. What happens after that is hard to contemplate.

I asked Meltruth how Maureen called her. From her cell or from a payphone? But she hasn't been around for a long time. A payphone might support a scenario like above.

How they got hold of her back? Maybe they thought it wasn't a good idea to let Maureen, they found her back and approached with an apologetic manner to lure her in arms length. Can a person be snatched in Manhattan? Yes.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_Jennifer_Moore

 

[giagreen]

Peter Brendt thinks this site is full of a bunch of board housewifes lol but I too wish he'd come back.

I dont think any of these girls were stupid. I think they were more brave then they were tough and that was their downfall that got them killed. And by brave I don't mean they were dumb enough to go on secret dates and leave their phones behind. They became conditioned to the life style but stood out because pretty girls who don't look like crack heads but come from proverty and broken homes stick out. And you get messed with by all kinds of weirdos. And after awhile you know how to handle them. It makes you tough enough to walk to a gas station alone at night thinkin you'd know how to fight someone off.

Now stalking vs prowling around motels or hotels and developing an eye for prostitutes.....I could go either way with that. I could see it as not a dedicated stalking but they were most deffently being watched. He new who they were. Except for Maureen. I don't think he new who she was.

And your right Megan was a little bit bigger. But still to me she was on the smaller side just not fragile looking and had curvs as a nice way to put it. Imo

But I have to ask why do you think Maureen was assaulted in the room? And what leads you to believe she tried to tell the hotel people? I've read lost girls and I loved that book. But it was a year or so ago now and I should reread it to refresh my mind. I have a bad memory.

And also you say they and band. Why do you think its more then one person working together? I wouldn't be shocked if it is more then one person working together. Its not like that's never happen before. That could actually tie SG into this some how. I'm just curious as to what leads you to believe that? I just think if its a few people someone would of got them busted by now by talking.

 

[Aleph]

I thought (assumed) that Peter Brendt was banned. Anyone know for sure?

 

[giagreen]

I thought (assumed) that Peter Brendt was banned. Anyone know for sure?

Yeah I've talked to him threw email. He got a time out but was super put off by the time out that he vowed to never return

 

[giagreen]

Emre, almost everything you said is basically why I beleive they were all stalked for a period of time before being snatch up off the streets while walking alone. Weather it was a client they new or recognize and got in the car willingly with or forcefully I don't know. It could of even been a little bit of both. Regardless, all four girls were pretty small. Why do you think that is? Sexual fetish? Killer hates small women? Easy to throw in the brush? Or maybe because the smaller the victim the easier to over power?
And if your going to be snatching women off the streets you need to make it fast and easy....right? So nobody sees you doing it. You also need to watch and wait for the perfect moment to grab them unless if you wanna be caught.

If these girls were being stalked then it only make sense that how they went missing is a complete mystery. There is nothing that actually proves for a fact any one of these girls where offered big bucks to do a secret call. Or had a secret date.


There is also nothing at all that proves they were asked to leave their phones behind. Personally, I think dude likes playing with their phones. Yes. Dave Schaller say Amber was asked to leave her phone behind but I don't care what anyone says I take what he says with a grain of salt. He never reported Amber missing. No one did. Your roommate is asked to leave her phone behind while going on a call with an unknown john and never comes home and you don't think to report her missing? He obviously didn't truly care about her safety. I don't care what anyone says I think he knows how bad it makes him look as a human if he admitted he didn't want her to take the phone because he wanted it. He didn't care about her safety. I'm not convinced she was truly asked not to bring a phone. I think Dave just wanted the phone.

MW why did she go outside? I don't know and neither does anyone els. Did she go out to smoke a cigarette? Take a walk to the store? Maybe she really did just want some fresh air. If she was being stalked then that'd be that perfect moment he was waiting for. Would it not? I can't count the times I've been at a hotel and have wondered out side because I was sick of being cooped up in that room.

The other two had their phones on them. And both phones were messed with by the killer. They obviously were not told to leave them behind.

With MB there is nothing to prove she was killed by who ever she was going to meet that day. As far as anyone knows she was done with her call and was headed back home. Or to another call. Again, if she was being stalked as she walked the perfect moment the killer had been waiting for might have came and she was taken.

What is interesting to me is that the throwaway phones where purchased in Manhattan. And Maureen was last seen in Manhattan. And Maureen was also the first to go missing. I do not believe for one moment she took a last moment call. She stood 4 feet 11 inches tall and was 105 pounds!!! How hard could it of been to force her into a car? She was done for the day and was walking. Hmmm

MBB is the odd ball really. The other girls were all some how connected to Holiday inn. But not MBB and she was the first. That says something.

Snatched not snatch lmao omg why can't I edit this for the love of god. Hahahaha

 

[Emre E]

One group of people I find particularly callous about sexual assault incidents are hotel employees.

1) They have seen so much of both rape and alleged rape incidents,
2) They develop an intrinsic reaction of playing things down to protect the name of their business
3) And sometimes they may even be accomplices to crimes

Maureen calls Sara about thirty minutes after they left for Connecticut. Sara doesn't get the call and doesn't try to contact Maureen till evening hours. When she calls back Maureen's phone is off.

It is only by 11:30 PM Maureen contacts her sister and she never tells a word about the robbery. Why Maureen won't tell her sister about her adventurous day is truly curious for me. What I've seen in my life is sisters talk and talk and talk, share everything. I wouldn't think otherwise for Maureen and Missy who seem quite close siblings to me.

One explanation I surmise is she was threatened and only thing she wanted was to get away from New York safely. Which is why she desperately tries to get a male to accompany her, while instead she could simply get the train. I think her story deserves a deeper look and the killer is not in her phone records. A wild guess, maybe the people who assaulted Maureen was with her when she made that call. I can surmise a scenario but as is the above it would be a mere speculation, just an attempt to give a seamless story to explain some odd events.

 

[giagreen]

Right. I remember that now. And didn't Missy find out from Sara that Maureen was robbed?

The only other reason is if Maureen just didnt want to worry Missy and have Missy lecture her.

 

[deedee21]

Varrone said it best. It doesnt matter how smart the girls thought they were. Once you get into a killers car your dead. It doesnt matter if you have rules to stay safe if you are breaking them. A killer knows how to get around the rules when he has someone on his radar. Stalking comes in all forms. I do believe the girls were stalked. Melissas disapperance brought media attention. I think thats why the killer bypassed the boros of NYC and picked up his last two victims on LI.

 

[Emre E]

Varrone said it best. It doesnt matter how smart the girls thought they were. Once you get into a killers car your dead. It doesnt matter if you have rules to stay safe if you are breaking them. A killer knows how to get around the rules when he has someone on his radar. Stalking comes in all forms. I do believe the girls were stalked. Melissas disapperance brought media attention. I think thats why the killer bypassed the boros of NYC and picked up his last two victims on LI.

Maybe it is Rudy Giuliani's attempts in 2007 to clean up New York for attracting more tourists, a move which probably drove prostitution more into Long Island?

 

[Emre E]

Right. I remember that now. And didn't Missy find out from Sara that Maureen was robbed?

The only other reason is if Maureen just didnt want to worry Missy and have Missy lecture her.

You're correct Sara K is the one where the robbery report originates from and I believe many aspects of Maureen's story are looked into properly.

The reason? I think it is New York City. It is a city that celebrates its days without murder (or more accurately days they don't find a murder victim). Police looked into her phone records, did a brief cadaver dog search around the location where her phone lastly pinged, probably interviewed the hotel employees and that's pretty much it. Still, I think it is fair share of love for a missing prostitute in their mind.

 

[Emre E]

You're correct Sara K is the one where the robbery report originates from and I believe many aspects of Maureen's story are looked into properly. .

Just noticed. Apologies to everyone.

I believe many aspects of Maureen's story are NOT looked into properly

 

[giagreen]

Just noticed. Apologies to everyone.

I believe many aspects of Maureen's story are NOT looked into properly

I new what ya ment. Lol

 

[waltzingmatilda]

Varrone said it best. It doesnt matter how smart the girls thought they were. Once you get into a killers car your dead. It doesnt matter if you have rules to stay safe if you are breaking them. A killer knows how to get around the rules when he has someone on his radar. Stalking comes in all forms. I do believe the girls were stalked. Melissas disapperance brought media attention. I think thats why the killer bypassed the boros of NYC and picked up his last two victims on LI.

Bravo deedee21! Great post...short simple and to the point!

 

[hawkshaw]

Varrone said it best. It doesnt matter how smart the girls thought they were. Once you get into a killers car your dead. It doesnt matter if you have rules to stay safe if you are breaking them. A killer knows how to get around the rules when he has someone on his radar. Stalking comes in all forms. I do believe the girls were stalked. Melissas disapperance brought media attention. I think thats why the killer bypassed the boros of NYC and picked up his last two victims on LI.

It was my experience when I worked in NYC homicide squad that some of the bodies we found in Queens were killed on LI and dumped in NYC. It was commonly known that in certain classifications of murder the NYPD really didn't give a hoot. Drug related murders, prostitutes, OC ( if it wasn't a Paul Castellano and our bosses could care less if it meant spending money on overtime. Trust me when I say it doesn't take someone long to figure this out.

We had a special 4 man team working with the DEA on Colombian related homicides. Duing one period of them their record was 0-50. Another time we caught a guy plotting to kill a cop. He was brought in and his information led to another specially created team to solve 55 homicides. All solved to satisfy statistical records BUT no arrests.

When I first retired I was going home and I saw a lot of police activity. As soon as I saw a car with detectives gathered around it I knew it was an OC dump job. All I needed to know is where the body or the car came from. When the sergeant told me it was from Ridgewood I knew who the killer was and directed them to the house I thought they could find the killer. The NCPD detective laughed because he said no one would kill someone in Queens and risk taking the body in a car so far away. This detective had no idea what these stone cold killers were capable of. Of course, I was right and the killer was eventually convicted of that crime and other RICO crimes.

ALL PD's have their priorities. But even in Nassau and Suffolk dead prostitutes are not high on the list to investigate other than the detectives piling up some overtime.

Had they not found the GB4, by accident I doubt if they would have even found SG in her grave.

Nobody by-passed NYC because the heat was on. Those gals all were dumped near the kill site.

 

[To Kill a Mockingbird]

It was my experience when I worked in NYC homicide squad that some of the bodies we found in Queens were killed on LI and dumped in NYC. It was commonly known that in certain classifications of murder the NYPD really didn't give a hoot. Drug related murders, prostitutes, OC ( if it wasn't a Paul Castellano and our bosses could care less if it meant spending money on overtime. Trust me when I say it doesn't take someone long to figure this out.

We had a special 4 man team working with the DEA on Colombian related homicides. Duing one period of them their record was 0-50. Another time we caught a guy plotting to kill a cop. He was brought in and his information led to another specially created team to solve 55 homicides. All solved to satisfy statistical records BUT no arrests.

When I first retired I was going home and I saw a lot of police activity. As soon as I saw a car with detectives gathered around it I knew it was an OC dump job. All I needed to know is where the body or the car came from. When the sergeant told me it was from Ridgewood I knew who the killer was and directed them to the house I thought they could find the killer. The NCPD detective laughed because he said no one would kill someone in Queens and risk taking the body in a car so far away. This detective had no idea what these stone cold killers were capable of. Of course, I was right and the killer was eventually convicted of that crime and other RICO crimes.

ALL PD's have their priorities. But even in Nassau and Suffolk dead prostitutes are not high on the list to investigate other than the detectives piling up some overtime.

Had they not found the GB4, by accident I doubt if they would have even found SG in her grave.

Nobody by-passed NYC because the heat was on. Those gals all were dumped near the kill site.

Can you explain - in layman's terms what RICO is?
Make is simple, so someone that is not a copper can understand?

 

[hawkshaw]

RICO - racketeering Influenced Corruption Organization Act. And you damned well know what it means so why are you busting my chops?

 

[LINative13]

She probably thought you meant Rico as in a Spanish guy.

 

[To Kill a Mockingbird]

RICO - racketeering Influenced Corruption Organization Act. And you damned well know what it means so why are you busting my chops?

I asked you to explain it - not define it.
Who's busting your cops chops copper?

 

[hawkshaw]

She probably thought you meant Rico as in a Spanish guy.

Most of the folks that read this Board are reasonably intelligent. Most of them are interested in matters of police/law enforcement. Most readers know what RICO means. Most know of it and few really knows what it means - including yours truly. If they truly wanted to prosecute on RICO the Congress would be subject to arrest.

 

[hawkshaw]

OK, you asked and now you shall receive. A PERFECT example of a RICO case can be found in the Suffolk County DA office and parts of the SCPD. Those two agencies are aligned to commit crimes, hide crimes, and to subvert the criminal justice system in furtherance of their own criminal enterprises.

A prominent newsman told me so time ago he had in friend in the criminal justice system. He asked him if he ever read my blogs. To my shock and surprise this man ( I don't know who he/she is) said they did and added almost EVERYTHING I have been saying about Tom Spota and his little friends is true. He added my comment that Spota has 'criminalized' the SCPD was spot-on. Now this was a few years before Spota had Jim Burke appointed to be the Chief of Department.

Now that is a RICO in every sense of the word. A great irony of this is that the author of RICO: G.Robert Blakey, that man that took down organized crime has a son working for Spota. Why such a great public figure would have a son working for a outfit is a mystery to me. BTW, the son isn't a bad guy.