Found Deceased WA - Cheryl DeBoer, 54, Mountlake Terrace, 8 February 2016 #6

[DanceCard]

To all the people who say suicide was not possible, read this ^^^^

It is very common. I have seen the look of shock on family's faces so many times because the internal pain, suffering, anguish is well hidden by people who are able to function day in and day out. Until they can't. I've also been in the same boat, but we were lucky enough to stop my daughter.

I've been there too and completely agree.

 

[otto]

If Cheryl walked to the culvert, how did she get there without being seen?
What route did she take?

Why would she choose that particular location?
Why didn't she choose one of the nearer culverts, or the lake in the cemetery?

Where might her phone be found?

 

[gladyskravitsinvest]

I'm assuming box knife razor for I've only used A razor in Fast food or Drug store to open boxes. To me a razor comes across as a box knife razor to me. Only my opinion.

 

[DanceCard]

I'm assuming box knife razor for I've only used A razor in Fast food or Drug store to open boxes. To me a razor comes across as a box knife razor to me. Only my opinion.

I believe it was said to be a 'razor blade', but can't find the link to where it was described as that.

ETA FOUND LINK : http://mltnews.com/mlt-police-chief-shares-some-details-of-cheryl-deboer-investigation/

 

[TTF14]

If it were raining that morning - would she remove them just to prevent them from getting wet and being blurred especially if she didn't need them for distance? Not sure myself because it's been ages since I've worn glasses but my husband sometimes takes his off if they are getting wet or fogging up (going from cold to warm).

I always take mine off in the rain.

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[WhisperWorm]

I think the razor blade is connected to the mats on the cat...and I think it is possible that the self inflicted wounds on her fingers could also be related. If she was piecing through and removing them, it is possible that her fingers on her hands could become sliced. Especially a shy cat that might be moving around. Just seems to me that that could make some sense.

I do not feel that the blood in the car is in any way related to the cat, though.

Here's a thought...it would make sense that Cheryl wanted to get the matted areas off of the new kitty before his first day semi-alone in his new home. Perhaps she realized this as she was almost out the door "on time" - she would have had her jacket on. So she grabs a razor blade (I personally have a pack in my kitchen drawer for all kinds of stuff, like scraping paint off of windows, or crafts, etc.) - works a bit on Mr. New Kitty, realizes she's REALLY got to get moving, so absentmindedly sticks the blade in her pocket and hurries out the door, forgetting to double-check to make sure she has her badge.

Since there was no blood on the steering wheel (and she had one cut on a finger of each hand) - that would mean she had to be in the passenger seat where the blood was found when reaching into her pocket, eventually cutting herself.

Definitely not feeling that there is a tie-in between her new cat and the animal blood in her car, like marcyjoy. But why animal blood - enough to smear - on the passenger side floorboard at all??? (And no, it could not have been meat...we covered that lol)

 

[ANZAC]

Unfortunately, I am more receptive now to suicide then I was earlier (maybe 20%) But if someone did snatch me off of the road (while texting) and quickly put a bag over my head (to conceal their identity) tight or loose... I may conk over on the spot (faint). And I'm sure that would incite panic on the perps part. I'm sure they would look for a spot to get me out of their vehicle real quick (not having planned for this.) Pull over on the corner of 205th and Cedar and roll me over the edge. Any brush or leaves I gathered would be washed away after 6 days in the water..

Most people male or female (unless you were perhaps either elderly, infirm or very young) would have enough oxygen to either fight back, pull the bag or rip the bag (assuming it was a light grocery/takeout bag). Rule of thumb would be approx 3 minutes but it depends when the bag went on. I realize this is longer than most people hold your breath but that is different than actually losing consciousness.

So I'd wager most people would be able to put up a good fight for at least 1 minute, if not 2.

 

[marcyjoy]

As to the first, I think threatening a woman with a gun or knife (or razor blade!) and saying, "don't move & I won't hurt you" is so common it's almost cliche. People freeze in terror, especially if they're completely preoccupied and looking at their phone, in a hurry, thinking of several things at once.

The second - I think you're asking if all of those reasons are such that no one would want to murder her just as they'd be reason not to suicide? IMO Jealousy is a very, strong motivation to hurt or kill. Jealousy of love life, jealousy of career, personality, friendships... The more someone succeeds, the more they radiate and people notice. Sometimes they get on the radar of mentally unstable or violent person who forms a vendetta. If it wasn't random, this would be my guess.

Thank you for responding...

I agree that a gun or knife could be used, but my thought is, wouldn't someone have seen or noticed? Wouldn't there be evidence around? Video captured? And if the same "fight or flight" response that people seem to think should kick in for suicide, wouldn't it also apply here?

I absolutely agree with your second point. But my hiccup comes in that someone killing over jealousy or some such think probably wouldn't have the experience or know how or pre-planning to literally "get away with murder". Someone would know something. Someone would see something, or there would be some trace evidence somewhere.

This is why I have so much trouble believing murder. I would think if it was murder, the killer would have to be extremely experienced or extremely lucky

I appreciate reading your insite though, thank you.

 

[idfinch]

I have been to mortuary school and participated in a number of embalmings and restorations. While I am certainly no pathologist, I have had classes on decomp and observed bodies in a number of stages of decomp. A lot of factors contribute to the state of decomp when the deceased is found. In this case, it would depend upon how long she had been in the water, how cold the water was, etc. Based on what I have read so far about the climate of her location, she would most likely be well preserved in spite of the water. Suffocation would lead to petechial hemorrhaging in her eyes, skin, etc. They also said water was found in her lungs. Both of these would show the pathologist a cause of death.

Thank you for that info, I was wondering about that. I have a question. Since the ME listed both asphyxiation and drowning, would it be possible to die of asphyxiation and then have a week's worth of rushing water, and a loosely tied plastic bag filled with it, force water into her lungs post mortem? Or would she actually have to be breathing?

Also, would the petechial hemmoraging in her eyes be the same after the week of decomp, and would the amount seen in her eyes reflect the degree of suffocation/closeness to death before drowning began? Apologies if these are dumb or redundant questions.

 

[otto]

I'm assuming box knife razor for I've only used A razor in Fast food or Drug store to open boxes. To me a razor comes across as a box knife razor to me. Only my opinion.

A boxcutter blade is not a razor blade. They're quite different to handle as well.

 

[DatelineFan]

I still haven't heard of a way for Cheryl to commit suicide this way without drugs. I don't think it happened.

 

[otto]

I always take mine off in the rain.

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I've never taken my glasses off in the rain, I look away from the rainfall. Steam from warm/cold temperatures is something else, where I can see better without glasses.

 

[gladyskravitsinvest]

I believe it was said to be a 'razor blade', but can't find the link to where it was described as that.

ETA FOUND LINK : http://mltnews.com/mlt-police-chief-shares-some-details-of-cheryl-deboer-investigation/

A razor blade was found in DeBoer’s pocket. Yes a Razor Blade is what is used in a box knife.

 

[dizzychick]

I still have the following question's. I'am not going with Suicide My family member took their life and left a ten page letter.
The Time of Death?
Were the glasses not broken?
Box Knife Razor I only associate with when I held jobs in Fast food and drug store to open boxes.
But why in the pocket? Staged in my opinion.
Wallet and Cell phone Missing?
Were her shoes on?
If she fell into water would she not have a bruise (s) on face or contact to body after falling?
Animal Blood is odd to me in my opinion, But thinking back to the initial report on the day she was found, Why was the Animal Control at the scene? My thought was a wild animal had gotten to the body. But also thought I heard in the initial reports that she was found in grassy area of a culvert?
By pictures I thought was fully fenced on East side. A picture in the past few days I thought it appeared anyone could walk on grass around fence?
I also assumed people walk dogs in that area? I would think if she had been there long they would have smelt or alerted owner?
What book was found in car?
Why were the doors locked?
I also feel this was planned and that it is someone close to her. IE knows her routine. I do not think the car moved and in the beginning I did not feel she ever arrived in that car on that street.

These are all just my thought's due too I watch crime shows and wished I'd gone into PI work. I send my condolences to her Family and Friends. Just my thought's and opinions.

I have a slew of questions too, I want to know:

1.) who was the last person to see or talk to her the weekend before 2/8
2) who checked the home surveillance cam
3) how many other cams would her car pass and have they been checked
4) did she have even the slightest trouble with anyone at work or did she recently get promoted or demoted
5) I know Hutch has life insurance, did she buy up the policy ( has a max of 1 million)
7) why didnt the cops find her car before the hubby got to it and what did he do to the car before it was impounded
8) did the cops go to the park and ride on Feb. 9 to to ask questions
9) were all the residents on the street where the culvert is get interviewed

I could go on and on and this would take a lot of time that LE probably does not have, recent article says they need many more cops, they are understaffed big time

 

[Master Gee]

Most people male or female (unless you were perhaps either elderly, infirm or very young) would have enough oxygen to either fight back, pull the bag or rip the bag (assuming it was a light grocery/takeout bag). Rule of thumb would be approx 3 minutes but it depends when the bag went on. I realize this is longer than most people hold your breath but that is different than actually losing consciousness.

So I'd wager most people would be able to put up a good fight for at least 1 minute, if not 2.

ANZAC, not sure if you're interested or even can, but if so, could you speculate and detail what the story would be to the public in LE's perspective if it they are leaning toward suicide? Eg. CD pulls the car over on 58th..etc. test cuts her fingers, bag over head, into the water...etc. found in the culvert.. How they may think the whole suicide went down...

 

[otto]

I still haven't heard of a way for Cheryl to commit suicide this way without drugs. I don't think it happened.

We have an innate desire and reflex to breath, so it would be pretty much impossible for someone to place a plastic food take-out bag over one's head, lie down in a cold shallow drainage ditch, and not jump out pretty fast. To lie there until breathing stopped is absurd.

 

[DanceCard]

A razor blade was found in DeBoer’s pocket. Yes a Razor Blade is what is used in a box knife.

Ok, I don't know what a 'box knife' is so I didn't know that. (I'm British and as you know we don't always speak the same language, even though we do, if you get my drift!).

 

[DatelineFan]

We have an innate desire to breath, so it would be pretty much impossible for someone to place a plastic food take-out bag over one's head, lie down in a cold shallow drainage ditch, and not jump out pretty fast. To lie there until breathing stopped is absurd.

I agree with you. It's preposterous.

 

[TTF14]

ANZAC, not sure if you're interested or even can, but if so, could you speculate and detail what the story would be to the public in LE's perspective if it they are leaning toward suicide? Eg. CD pulls the car over on 58th..etc. test cuts her fingers, bag over head, into the water...etc. found in the culvert.. How they may think the whole suicide went down...

To piggy back, do you know of any suicide cases involving bags over the head and no drugs?

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[ANZAC]

@Anzac : can you say what a "Verified SAR" is? I've looked around in the search function and can't seem to find what that means. I'm just curious to know what that label means

Search and Rescue. In Washington state, search and rescue is managed by the sheriff's offices of the 39 counties. I'm a non-commissioned (no gun, no power of arrest, no shiny badge) volunteer with one of the sheriff's offices - we do get a sheriff's office ID card. WA state law allows SAR to assist with evidence searches and crime scenes. We are required to be trained in crime scene procedures (I carry yellow crime scene tape in my rig.....). Because some outside deaths turn out to be suicide or homicide, we also see a lot of those, though far more accident and suicide than homicide.

SAR from two counties assisted with this case, but I was not involved and have not asked for any of the details (which frees me to speculate here). We're sort of the "low-cost" CSI team. We find things, but generally we don't touch them. Though under WA state law we are able to move bodies and human remains to the medical examiner (I've driven with a body in my car, which is ...weird) and we also testify in court cases when called. We're also part of the chain of custody for evidence.

Some of the types of resources we provide:
- air scent, trailing scent and cadaver/human remains detection dogs
- trackers
- helicopter landing support
- ground search for people, human remains, evidence (metal detectors, brush cutting, grid searches)
- crime scene mapping/surveying

WA state has the infamous distinction of being home to some famous serial killers as well. SAR volunteers put tens of thousands of hours into many of the cases listed on this site. Green river killer, Bundy, Sky Metalwala etc. We get called in from a city, to us (the county), and then maybe to another county.

Our typical evidence search cases are: murder weapon thrown in the bushes (guns, knives, shell casings etc.) and human remains (partial or complete bodies). Sometimes we also look for things that are subject's effects (eg phone, wallet, jewelry, stolen items from house that kind of thing). Sometimes we are looking for items as small as teeth.

We work very closely with major crimes detectives. Also have worked with ATF, NCIS, FBI even the Army...etc. They need help, they call the sheriff's office and we show up.

Generally we just do what we're told by LE (they tell us when/where to show up) -- but in many cases we have people with far more expertise in finding things/bodies etc. So they let us do our thing and tell us what they know.

Not all of the crimes we work on are committed outdoors. For example, someone kills someone in a house, then runs away and throws the murder weapon away. In that case we don't go near the body, but we do help find evidence. We also work cold cases too.

The best part of the crime scene work is putting bad people away. When a detective says "you did it, this guy is going to go to jail" that's a great feeling.

OR, CA, UT and CO I think are similar, but I'm not 100% sure.