WA - Lindsey Baum, 10, McCleary, 26 June 2009 - #16

[McCleary]

It could be Knox. I think Jvk posted that across from Libby's house is a park and ride type lot. That would mean cars in and cars out, right? And I don't think all access would be just off of 3rd St or it could be dangerous, turning in to it against the traffic.

The house is right behind the bus station...between main and 4th, I believe.

 

[MarieG]

Hi NS, I have read the changing statements too, about some info not given to LE and also questioned why those so close to the case started posting info in online comments and the Lindsey forums. We all sat here in horror reading those posts as we didn't want the case compromised. I haven't read about contaminated searches but assume you have good info about that to bring it up.

What comes to my mind is why LE didn't get a grip on this right away. They have read the forums and so have to be very aware of how changing info was put out there. And they would have to know who these players were as it is easily traced info. Did they confront these people and ask why?

If we have read about info not given to them, they must have read that on the forums too, right? And why did they tell one of these posters when asked by her, to use her own judgement or common sense about what to say in her informative posts on what she knew about the case?

I do fault LE for that. These posters I speak of, enough other people have spoken to them to know they are who they portend to be. Their comments are out there to read as well.

All that says to me that the solving of this case will show those very close to the case know much more than they have said so far. I think LE should put these people in the box and with what they have learned up till now, re-interview them and clear up all the changing statements. Starting over at square one. That will possibly tie into other info they have, like from the dogs {which I have read is a lot more than we are privy to} and maybe items found in some of the first searches.

Will they do this? That is the question of the hour IMO.


PS: From all I have read I don't even think Lindsey was taken for sexual purposes anymore, not by a stranger or a local SO. And I think her body was temporarily hidden within those few blocks from Kara's house to her own. It just makes me sick that there have to be people who know about this and can't belly up to giving out the truth of it to LE. IMO

Hi Scandi, Per your post above, are you speaking of people who post on forums by ways of internet? People who knew Lindsey personally? and if so, why would they be posting on forums, is that something that is normal these days? I would think mums is the word when it comes to a criminal investigation and/or a missing child case. I would also think it would be different for them to post on forums vs the public. I never thought that people close to such cases would want to do such things, or as you stated, LE should put a stop to it. Please forgive me if I mis-understood your post.
M

 

[Novice Seeker]

Hi Scandi, Per your post above, are you speaking of people who post on forums by ways of internet? People who knew Lindsey personally? and if so, why would they be posting on forums, is that something that is normal these days? I would think mums is the word when it comes to a criminal investigation and/or a missing child case. I would also think it would be different for them to post on forums vs the public. I never thought that people close to such cases would want to do such things, or as you stated, LE should put a stop to it. Please forgive me if I mis-understood your post.
M

Marie,

We keep asking that very question. Why would persons risk jeopardizing this investigation by hitting the internet and posting on forums about this case? As to LE, I've been asking myself or more like :banghead: why a higher level of LE such as the FBI haven't been brought in. There's a missing little girl from a community that has individuals directly involved in this case who have taken to cyberworld to discuss this case, a local law enforcement who recently stated that no new tips are coming in and at the same time take the opportunity to bash sleuthers who get on these boards to discuss this case.

Now, I don't have a criminal degree but do have common sense and can recognize big ol' red flags when they're waving in the air. If "sleuthers" are aware of all the contradicting everchanging stories, information being given out or discussed that directly influences this case why can't this local LE? Why can we see the importance of going back to beginning and search for the truth and possibly discover new information to help this case why doesn't the local LE? An even bigger question is why hasn't the FBI stepped in and taken over a case that has been so contaminated and poorly investigated?

But, that's just my personal opinion.

Novice Seeker

 

[scandi]

Hi Scandi, Per your post above, are you speaking of people who post on forums by ways of internet? People who knew Lindsey personally? and if so, why would they be posting on forums, is that something that is normal these days? I would think mums is the word when it comes to a criminal investigation and/or a missing child case. I would also think it would be different for them to post on forums vs the public. I never thought that people close to such cases would want to do such things, or as you stated, LE should put a stop to it. Please forgive me if I mis-understood your post.
M

Hi Marie, Yes, first by posting in the comment sections of online newspapers or TV stations. Like King 5 for one. I don't know which ones posted where except for Mlechester who knew Lindsey well and posted info which was upsetting and brought posts trying to refute what she had said. She said there were police reports to back up Lindsey saying she was being abused in some way at home. That poster suddenly stopped posting so maybe got the word, and she had also moved out of McCleary to a neighboring area.

I think many locals who are players in the case have posted on internet forums, and still do at times, including Kara, Mom Baum, MM and Tena, the mother of Dale. Some might belong here, or all, but one would have to follow the threads very close to eventually realize who is who.

I agree it is the bunk. On one hand we have learned allot from their posts. And yet there have been many changes in their statements, problematic for a Sleuther who needs the truth/facts to be successful. How does one sort them out?

I don't think I have ever seen a case where so many posters have been very close to the actual investigation in a missing child case. And it is weird, as I do not believe anyone in McCleary has been actually 'cleared' in the case yet. IMO

 

[scandi]

Marie,

We keep asking that very question. Why would persons risk jeopardizing this investigation by hitting the internet and posting on forums about this case? As to LE, I've been asking myself or more like :banghead: why a higher level of LE such as the FBI haven't been brought in. There's a missing little girl from a community that has individuals directly involved in this case who have taken to cyberworld to discuss this case, a local law enforcement who recently stated that no new tips are coming in and at the same time take the opportunity to bash sleuthers who get on these boards to discuss this case.

Now, I don't have a criminal degree but do have common sense and can recognize big ol' red flags when they're waving in the air. If "sleuthers" are aware of all the contradicting everchanging stories, information being given out or discussed that directly influences this case why can't this local LE? Why can we see the importance of going back to beginning and search for the truth and possibly discover new information to help this case why doesn't the local LE? An even bigger question is why hasn't the FBI stepped in and taken over a case that has been so contaminated and poorly investigated?

But, that's just my personal opinion.

Novice Seeker

ITA NS, About the FBI, I think it is because of the way they work. I haven't ever seen them assume control of a missing child case except those taken across state lines. They do their own separate investigation along side the local officials who do theirs as well. They work together in that respect, but when it comes time for arrests the FBI lets the local guys do their thing.

Now I don't know about crimes on Federal Land. That might be different. It could be if they found evidence of a crime against Lindsey in a State or Federal forest they would take the reins. For instance if they had found evidence in their searches of the Capitol Forest. IMO And correct me if that is wrong ;}

 

[STEADFAST]

Marie,

We keep asking that very question. Why would persons risk jeopardizing this investigation by hitting the internet and posting on forums about this case? As to LE, I've been asking myself or more like :banghead: why a higher level of LE such as the FBI haven't been brought in. There's a missing little girl from a community that has individuals directly involved in this case who have taken to cyberworld to discuss this case, a local law enforcement who recently stated that no new tips are coming in and at the same time take the opportunity to bash sleuthers who get on these boards to discuss this case.

Now, I don't have a criminal degree but do have common sense and can recognize big ol' red flags when they're waving in the air. If "sleuthers" are aware of all the contradicting everchanging stories, information being given out or discussed that directly influences this case why can't this local LE? Why can we see the importance of going back to beginning and search for the truth and possibly discover new information to help this case why doesn't the local LE? An even bigger question is why hasn't the FBI stepped in and taken over a case that has been so contaminated and poorly investigated?

But, that's just my personal opinion.

Novice Seeker

I thought the FBI was brought in at the beginning of this case. I remember us discussing the agent assigned.

ETA The FBI has been involved in Lindsey's case since the second day. From June 28th: "MCCLEARY, Wash. - The FBI has joined the search for a 10-year-old girl who vanished Friday while walking home from a friend's house in this small mill town. Officials said the federal crime-busting bureau was brought in because of its expertise and experience in solving missing children cases. The FBI also will be bringing in more law enforcement personnel to assist."
http://www.komonews.com/news/local/49383897.html

They were also involved when the search warrants were executed.

 

[breanna]

Can someone please explain what is meant by "contaminated searches"?

By us at the center searching? Or LE in the beginning? Or?

I've never heard this and I search all the time. I'm very careful and carry a bag of rubber gloves in my car. I wear them so much I forget they are on sometimes

That's a broad statement and I'd like some clarification.

Thanks.

 

[scandi]

Can someone please explain what is meant by "contaminated searches"?

By us at the center searching? Or LE in the beginning? Or?

I've never heard this and I search all the time. I'm very careful and carry a bag of rubber gloves in my car. I wear them so much I forget they are on sometimes

That's a broad statement and I'd like some clarification.

Thanks.

Hi Brianna, That was one thing I posted above that I was not familiar with. I did say tho that if Novice Seeker said that he must have something to make him believe it as he is a very studied poster.

The only thing I thought odd was from the poster who said when the media is there they search differently. It is just my opinion that searchers should have complete focus on the searching, and the team leader or someone would be the one to keep the media at bay. xox

 

[TakeNote]

thinking of lindsey tonight....i wrote some stuff....but deleted it....its so hard to try and find answers.....when lindsey just vanished so close to home, with nothing left behind but conflicting stories....... LE keeping everything close to the vest....where do we really go from here?......we need something....a direction to advance.....sorry i have been away from the thread for awhile...im just frustrated......

:hug:

 

[Novice Seeker]

Can someone please explain what is meant by "contaminated searches"?

By us at the center searching? Or LE in the beginning? Or?

I've never heard this and I search all the time. I'm very careful and carry a bag of rubber gloves in my car. I wear them so much I forget they are on sometimes

That's a broad statement and I'd like some clarification.

Thanks.

Thanks for asking for clarification of my thoughts before just taking offense which happens frequently on the boards. I think we've all seen what this has often led to.

First, please accept my apology if you felt offended which I assure you it was not meant to. I have the utmost respect for all searchers who give their time and heart to search for a missing loved one. There are no ulterior motives, only compassion for another human being.

Second, for many reasons I used a broad term to describe this particular issue. Why? Out of respect for search groups that once this was discovered chose the ethical path and withdrew from this case. However, the persons who broke the trust of their leaders of these search groups will understand the specifics behind my term "contaminated searches". As one who hates riddles or parables b/c darn it I'm simply not good at trying to interpret the meaning. So, thank you for allowing me to clarify what I was attempting to describe. From what I've read which includes several pieces of correspondence's the contamination did not involve ANY of the searchers. The contamination took place at a different level that involved processing information and passing it thru the chain. However, again I want to stress that the searchers and the organization itself were in NO WAY INVOLVED. (that wasn't meant as a scream, only for emphasis)

Third, well dang it guys I enjoy tossing around ideas and discussing key issues with you and therefor try not to commit an infraction that could lead to being banned.

Novice Seeker

 

[Novice Seeker]

Knox posted this yesterday on another forum and I wanted to bring this over so others who may not have seen this article read it.

Sheriff’s office says there’s no truth to Baum case rumors
The Grays Harbor Sheriff’s Office says rumors of a break in the Lindsey Baum case, involving a missing McCleary girl, are false.

Baum vanished on June 26 just 10 days before her 11th birthday while walking a few blocks from her home.

Undersheriff Rick Scott said Friday that he had fielded media calls all day asking him about alleged warrants and arrests.

Scott said someone was contacting media outlets anonymously with bogus tips. Reporters and community members called the Sheriff’s Office all day to ask about the rumors.

“About the only thing true is that I’m burning up the minutes on my cell phone,” Scott said.
Scott said no one has filed any police reports and there is nothing legally the Sheriff’s Office can do about the false reports.


Here is yet another example of why I have concerns about how this investigation has been handled. Hopefully this comment will not cause some to hesitate or not bother at all to call in something that could be the key tip to solving this case and bringing justice for Lindsey. Please understand that this is only my opinion.

FYI: perhaps those who believe they have important tips should contact the FBI liason in this case instead.

Novice Seeker

 

[Novice Seeker]

I thought the FBI was brought in at the beginning of this case. I remember us discussing the agent assigned.

ETA The FBI has been involved in Lindsey's case since the second day. From June 28th: "MCCLEARY, Wash. - The FBI has joined the search for a 10-year-old girl who vanished Friday while walking home from a friend's house in this small mill town. Officials said the federal crime-busting bureau was brought in because of its expertise and experience in solving missing children cases. The FBI also will be bringing in more law enforcement personnel to assist."
http://www.komonews.com/news/local/49383897.html

They were also involved when the search warrants were executed.

TY. Hopefully you can help me understand this aspect of an investigation b/c this is like everything else Legal which is like learning Latin at my age. Hard on the brain, at least to mine.

I posted in another comment about an article that has the local sheriff or undersheriff (which btw, what does that mean?) talking about the lack of and useless tips that are coming into his office. So, if the sheriff is in charge of receiving any/all tips and appears to be the one who determines if a tip is valid how can the FBI help?

Novice Seeker

 

[MarieG]

I would have to say that it would be highly unlikely. There is never an area that needs to be looked at that goes unsearched even if it means just the core team stays late to do it themselves and there is never an area that can't or shouldn't be looked at again. IMO ~ But I do see what you were getting at. Hopefully, this makes sense - if not please let me know. As a core member I will try to answer if I can as do the other core members that participate here.

Quite the contrary, and in all honesty I do not understand the "core member" as you have defined in your statement.

It might not ever make sense to me that when there is a search planned or in progress why the media should detour the searchers. As I have posted previously, It seems the search team is struggling for volunteers, the searches are only done on two day weekends, and not every weekend (weather permitting). So as someone looking on the outside, looking in, I do not understand why the media would even want to interrupt the search team at the cost of maybe finding Lindsey Baum.

 

[MarieG]

I have another question. Does the media read the forums?

 

[MarieG]

Can someone please explain what is meant by "contaminated searches"?

By us at the center searching? Or LE in the beginning? Or?

I've never heard this and I search all the time. I'm very careful and carry a bag of rubber gloves in my car. I wear them so much I forget they are on sometimes

That's a broad statement and I'd like some clarification.

Thanks.

I notice that you are one of the searchers for Lindsey Baum. Thank you first and foremost for all your hard work and passion for Lindsey Baum.

In my posts that I have previously asked questions about the medias involvement at "Some" but not all searches. Do you Breanna find it to be something that interrupts the search efforts? If the searchers take the media to an area that has already been searched, do you think that this compromises the actual searches for Lindsey? Or do you think because Lindsey needs as much media attention as possible that this is something needed? I am not familiar really with how the searches for a missing child or any other person for that matter, works. Are there not different groups/sectors that just focus on the different areas needed for the Lindsey Baum? Such as;a group who focuses on the searches, a group that communicates with the media, a group in support of Lindsey mom etc...?

 

[breanna]

I notice that you are one of the searchers for Lindsey Baum. Thank you first and foremost for all your hard work and passion for Lindsey Baum.

In my posts that I have previously asked questions about the medias involvement at "Some" but not all searches. Do you Breanna find it to be something that interrupts the search efforts? If the searchers take the media to an area that has already been searched, do you think that this compromises the actual searches for Lindsey? Or do you think because Lindsey needs as much media attention as possible that this is something needed? I am not familiar really with how the searches for a missing child or any other person for that matter, works. Are there not different groups/sectors that just focus on the different areas needed for the Lindsey Baum? Such as;a group who focuses on the searches, a group that communicates with the media, a group in support of Lindsey mom etc...?

Hi there. Let me try and clear this up for you, Scandi and some others that were asking.

When the media was here (they haven't been for quite a while now) and searchers would go out, media would follow them. These were real searches and real searchers. The searchers were looking thoroughly.

The only exception to this was when the Oprah crew was there. We took them to an area so they could do their filming and interviewing. AFTER the Oprah crew left, a group of us (about 6 of us) stayed and searched that area.

Then the following weekend, we sent the soldiers (about 50 of them) back to this same area. They split up in groups, walked the whole area and did a grid search.

I beleive that's what the poster was referring to when they talked about not searching areas when the media is there. Does that make sense?

As far as different groups doing different things, yes, in the beginning we were. But since searchers have tapered off (the weather is awful) and it's just a few of us, we all do everything. Food, searching, paperwork, support for MB.

We only call ourselves the core group because that's what LRC refer to us as. It's just a group of us (about 9 people) who got trained and have stuck around to run the search center as best we can.

I hope that clears some stuff up.

 

[Knox]

Thank you Breanna for the explanation, that makes sense. The searchers in the single instance you are describing were giving a "photo op" to the Oprah crew. After the film crew was gone the area was searched properly. Somehow, I think what the former poster said about "searches while media is present" was taken out of context.

We appreciate you Breanna, we really do!!

 

[ChuckMaureen]

Knox posted this yesterday on another forum and I wanted to bring this over so others who may not have seen this article read it.

--- begin news quote

Sheriff’s office says there’s no truth to Baum case rumors

// some snippage //

Undersheriff Rick Scott said Friday that he had fielded media calls all day asking him about alleged warrants and arrests.

Scott said someone was contacting media outlets anonymously with bogus tips. Reporters and community members called the Sheriff’s Office all day to ask about the rumors.

“About the only thing true is that I’m burning up the minutes on my cell phone,” Scott said.

Scott said no one has filed any police reports and there is nothing legally the Sheriff’s Office can do about the false reports.

--- end news quote

Here is yet another example of why I have concerns about how this investigation has been handled. Hopefully this comment will not cause some to hesitate or not bother at all to call in something that could be the key tip to solving this case and bringing justice for Lindsey. Please understand that this is only my opinion.

FYI: perhaps those who believe they have important tips should contact the FBI liason in this case instead.

Novice Seeker

NS, thanks for re-posting that article.

I now have lost confidence on McCleary PD to a certain degree. I know they are human, but where's the professionalism in this statement:

“About the only thing true is that I’m burning up the minutes on my cell phone,” Scott said.

Quite frankly, UnderSheriff Scott, it's not about your cell phone minutes.

Does anyone know if Scott is using his personal cell phone or if it is provided by the County? Even if it is his personal cell phone, well ....

I hope what Scott said wasn't meant to imply everyone calling him is wasting his minutes and / or time on this case. I'm sure it is completely frustrating to not being able to solve a case in a straight forward manner and on top of that to receive phone call after phone call about this bogus tip and that unfounded rumor, etc.

The last thing LB/MB/JB need is for people that are already uncomfortable with some close-to-the-case McCleary town-folk to also be uncomfortable with local LE.

Might I respectfully suggest: UnderSheriff Scott should have furthered his statement, perhaps as this:

“About the only thing true is that I’m burning up the minutes on my cell phone with all the rumor questions. Please continue to call in tips if you know anything about this case or provide any information you remember about the evening Lindsey disappeared. We want to bring her home,” Scott [should have] said.

... and yes, he does hot have to say her last name. First-name only personalizes the statement.

It's all semantics, I know, but if the authority figures in this case do not put their best face forward, how is anyone to take this case seriously?

 

[razzberry]

Wish I knew the details of the *rumor*!!!

Was someone asking about the pool that the kids swam in that day? I found some that I had not seen before here; http://s296.photobucket.com/albums/...urrent=pool_looking_southeast--cyberswept.jpg

Hello,
I actually heard the rumor last monday (I live in Grays Harbor county) and kept checking here to see if anything was posted about it. I also kept checking the newspaper and nothing, after a couple of days I realised it was just that, a rumor. Im not sure if it would be appropriate to post a rumor here so I will just say it involved a hit and run and hide scenerio and multiple individules involved. I have to admit I was hopping that it was a break in Lindseys case, although I still hope for a much more happy outcome.

 

[SarahC]

NS, thanks for re-posting that article.

I now have lost confidence on McCleary PD to a certain degree. I know they are human, but where's the professionalism in this statement:

“About the only thing true is that I’m burning up the minutes on my cell phone,” Scott said.

Quite frankly, UnderSheriff Scott, it's not about your cell phone minutes.
<clip>

Just a quick clarification: Undersheriff Rick Scott is with the Grays Harbor County Sheriff's Office - not McCleary PD.

I myself like Scott's work, I was impressed early on watching him in TV interviews. I can see how that quote might not seem professional but for me it fit in with the story. Quotes can be so taken out of context in media, I tend to give folks some slack.

But that's just me.

I sure wonder who is responsible for the rumors.