WA WA - Samantha Sayers, 28, Vesper Peak, North Cascades, 1 August 2018

[Suglo]

The Snohomish County SAR helicopter is scheduled to search again today, starting in just under two hours from now. I really hope they find something and can bring Sam's family some answers.

I think we are all holding our breath this afternoon! Two hours is not much but hopefully the search is in a high probability area where she may be.

 

[Suglo]

No news yet. I’ve been checking their page, twitter and local news sites. I did see where a couple of people asked about cadaver dogs on their page earlier this afternoon. The actual response was that they do not need nor want cadaver dogs. The post and subsequent comments have already been deleted. What can it hurt to bring in cadaver dogs? If they don’t find anything then fine but if they do find her then wouldn’t they prefer to recover her body and know the outcome than to not know and leave the body out there? I would want every type of dog and available resource searching for my child. It’s just mind boggling.

 

[zecats]

No news yet. I’ve been checking their page, twitter and local news sites. I did see where a couple of people asked about cadaver dogs on their page earlier this afternoon. The actual response was that they do not need nor want cadaver dogs. The post and subsequent comments have already been deleted. What can it hurt to bring in cadaver dogs? If they don’t find anything then fine but if they do find her then wouldn’t they prefer to recover her body and know the outcome than to not know and leave the body out there? I would want every type of dog and available resource searching for my child. It’s just mind boggling.

It truly is. That’s some serious denial.

 

[ChelaKitty]

No news yet. I’ve been checking their page, twitter and local news sites. I did see where a couple of people asked about cadaver dogs on their page earlier this afternoon. The actual response was that they do not need nor want cadaver dogs. The post and subsequent comments have already been deleted. What can it hurt to bring in cadaver dogs? If they don’t find anything then fine but if they do find her then wouldn’t they prefer to recover her body and know the outcome than to not know and leave the body out there? I would want every type of dog and available resource searching for my child. It’s just mind boggling.

And at the same time every human and dog up there is at risk of getting hurt doing the SAR. Seems the best use of resources would be to consider and search for all possibilities.

 

[Phantasma2624]

No news yet. I’ve been checking their page, twitter and local news sites. I did see where a couple of people asked about cadaver dogs on their page earlier this afternoon. The actual response was that they do not need nor want cadaver dogs. The post and subsequent comments have already been deleted. What can it hurt to bring in cadaver dogs? If they don’t find anything then fine but if they do find her then wouldn’t they prefer to recover her body and know the outcome than to not know and leave the body out there? I would want every type of dog and available resource searching for my child. It’s just mind boggling.

I know! It is very frustrating to me that they won't even consider the use of cadaver dogs. It's better to use them now than when it starts to snow. I was listening to a podcast today from The Vanished that talked about Jacob Hilkin, who also disappeared in Snohomish County (in a city, not in a state park or anything), and his mother talked about all the feelings that you feel as the parent of a missing child. She said that no matter what, when they search an area and they don't find them, it gives you that glimmer of hope that at least they're not there. She also talked about the passing of time and how it is a constant reminder that they are not there, and the guilt that the parent(s) feel(s) when they laugh or have some measure of normalcy. However, one thing she was adamant about was finding her son dead or alive. She said that no matter what, even if he is dead, she wants to bring him home so that he can be buried. And she cried at the thought of leaving him alone outside and abandoned.

She even organized one of the largest searches outside of the landslide that happened there a while back for him in a wooded area near where he was last seen. It was during this search they found the body of another missing person, who had been missing for two years. This is only 100 feet from a populated areas with numerous walking trails and still no one saw this person's body for two years! I can only imagine what might happen in Samantha's case.

EDIT: Here is the link to Jacob Hilkin's Websleuths discussion page. WA - WA - Jacob Hilkin, 24, Tulalip, 23 Jan 2018

For those that are interested, the podcast that his mother was featured on is called The Vanished. She had some very interesting updates in the most recent episode.

 

[Phantasma2624]

And at the same time every human and dog up there is at risk of getting hurt doing the SAR. Seems the best use of resources would be to consider and search for all possibilities.

I have a feeling that this might be why they are having trouble getting more SAR dogs. I posted before that many organizations with SAR dogs are likely not to want to use their resources on such a case, because the risk of injury or burnout is too high compared to the possible reward (aka the probability of finding Samantha). While I'm sure it doesn't feel like it to her family and friends, there are also numerous other people who need SAR services, and have a higher probability of being rescued, so the organizations may also need to save their resources for them. I'm not trying to be callous, but I wonder if this is what many of the dog handling agencies are thinking.

 

[Suglo]

I know! It is very frustrating to me that they won't even consider the use of cadaver dogs. It's better to use them now than when it starts to snow. I was listening to a podcast today from The Vanished that talked about Jacob Hilkin, who also disappeared in Snohomish County (in a city, not in a state park or anything), and his mother talked about all the feeling that you feel as the parent of a missing child. She said that no matter what, when they search an area and they don't find them, it gives you that glimmer of hope that at least they're not there. She also talked about the passing of time and how it is a constant reminder that they are not there, and the guilt that the parent(s) feel(s) when the laugh or have some measure of normalcy. However, one thing she was adamant about was finding her son dead or alive. She said that no matter what, even if he is dead, she wants to bring him home so that he can be buried. And she cried at the thought of leaving him alone outside and abandoned.

She even organized one of the largest searches outside of the landslide that happened there a while back for him in a wooded area near where he was last seen. It was during this search they found the body of another missing person, who had been missing for two years. This is only 100 feet from a populated areas with numerous walking trails and still no one saw this person's body for two years! I can only imagine what might happen in Samantha's case.

I’ll have to listen to that episode. You have to wonder how many groups have refused to work with them or vice versa because of their refusal to accept that she may be deceased. Maybe she needs to hear from another mother like Jacob’s mom instead of from some of the FB followers who actually post saying that they know Sam is alive.

I also worry that we are heading into the Fall and the weather on that mountain is going to make searches next to impossible. I can’t imagine how she will deal with that. I hope there’s someone in the family that’s more pragmatic and can help her get through it if they don’t find Samantha in the coming weeks. It’s so hard watching this one unfold.

 

[raja]

Just a comment on Harry Oakes, he came into the picture when Kyron Horman went missing. I do not think he was very welcomed then by local LE.

 

[zecats]

I’ll have to listen to that episode. You have to wonder how many groups have refused to work with them or vice versa because of their refusal to accept that she may be deceased. Maybe she needs to hear from another mother like Jacob’s mom instead of from some of the FB followers who actually post saying that they know Sam is alive.

I also worry that we are heading into the Fall and the weather on that mountain is going to make searches next to impossible. I can’t imagine how she will deal with that. I hope there’s someone in the family that’s more pragmatic and can help her get through it if they don’t find Samantha in the coming weeks. It’s so hard watching this one unfold.

Plus at this point in time and because of changing seasons soon, one would think she might just want Sam home in any way possible. Rather than feel the way Jacob’s mom felt about leaving their loved one out there “alone and abandoned.” She’s running out of time for that. Jmo. Sad.

 

[Phantasma2624]

I’ll have to listen to that episode. You have to wonder how many groups have refused to work with them or vice versa because of their refusal to accept that she may be deceased. Maybe she needs to hear from another mother like Jacob’s mom instead of from some of the FB followers who actually post saying that they know Sam is alive.

I also worry that we are heading into the Fall and the weather on that mountain is going to make searches next to impossible. I can’t imagine how she will deal with that. I hope there’s someone in the family that’s more pragmatic and can help her get through it if they don’t find Samantha in the coming weeks. It’s so hard watching this one unfold.

I really think this is something her family are going to have to come to terms with in their own time. If Jacob’s mother spoke to her, I feel like she would say that’s not Sam or Sam is strong, which I really hate he wording of anyway as it implies everyone else who has gone missing and perished was weak.

Right now her mother is holding onto hope because there’s snow and berries. But soon there won’t be. I don’t know how she’ll deal with this then. Even before the berries disappear, she’s going to have to reckon with Samantha being exposed to freezing temperatures. By that point, I don’t think they’ll be able to do any searches until spring.

 

[sasha17]

I really think this is something her family are going to have to come to terms with in their own time. If Jacob’s mother spoke to her, I feel like she would say that’s not Sam or Sam is strong, which I really hate he wording of anyway as it implies everyone else who has gone missing and perished was weak.

Right now her mother is holding onto hope because there’s snow and berries. But soon there won’t be. I don’t know how she’ll deal with this then. Even before the berries disappear, she’s going to have to reckon with Samantha being exposed to freezing temperatures. By that point, I don’t think they’ll be able to do any searches until spring.

For reference, the gate that I mentioned earlier that is locked on the highway up there didn't re-open until late May this year. When it opens each year depends on the snow and weather conditions.

https://www.heraldnet.com/news/14-mile-stretch-of-mountain-loop-highway-reopens-for-season/

 

[ChelaKitty]

......I hope there’s someone in the family that’s more pragmatic and can help her get through it if they don’t find Samantha in the coming weeks. It’s so hard watching this one unfold.

It sure is. I cannot imagine the pain and fear; denial is a survival mechanism for sure. As for me, I’d want to find my child alive (or deceased) QUICKLY before fall/winter. I couldn’t stand the thought of leaving her there to freeze, or worse. I’m so sorry for them.

 

[thesaint]

Families of missing people sometimes do the darndest things. Samantha's family deleting facebook comments that suggest alternative theories and avoiding cadaver dogs is a less than optimal strategy to find/recover their missing loved one asap.

Reminds me a bit of how Lauren Spierer's family refused to listen to theories about her disappearance that involved drug use. This despite drugs being found in Lauren's off-campus apt and the people Lauren hung out with that night being heavily into substances.

If Samantha's family is willing to listen to psychics then any theory should be on the table.

 

[Phantasma2624]

Just an update from the videos from Samantha’s mother.

First, in a video last night she said that they are looking at ALL possibilities, but they don’t want to discuss them on the Facebook page. This is hopeful, because it hopefully indicates that they are also considering using cadaver dogs. They just don’t want the Facebook page to get bogged down in that kind of stuff.

Her mother posted a more ranting video this morning, but the main thing is they want to know if they can ping a dead cellphone and are trying to get help from google, sprint, etc. She can’t get an answer from them and is asking the Facebook page to call whoever they can (Google, congresspeople, etc) to get answers. Basically, the issue is (although she doesn’t know it) she needs a subpoena. Because of the vast amounts of data they collect, Google and other telecommunications companies do not just hand over data, even if a person is missing, unless that person is a child. I don’t know if a dead phone can be tracked. It would seem to be unlikely. However, they may be able to get the last known location before it died, but I don’t know if this would be any different from the pings they have.

Second, she asks questions like if the phone is dead, why is it ringing? This is a common issue that missing people’s families have a problem understanding. The ring is the cellphone company trying to find the phone. It does not mean the phone is ringing or even has reception. It’s just a sound they play to make sure the person waiting on the line knows they are searching for the phone.

 

[Michellesv44]

Her mom says her phone joe rings when she calls it. Um.....

Doesn’t that mean it’s on?

So.....scenarios. A. Fluke B. She ran away but is still using the same phone. C. She was abducted but her captor let her use a charger.

None of these make sense. Any ideas?

 

[Phantasma2624]

Her mom says her phone joe rings when she calls it. Um.....

Doesn’t that mean it’s on?

So.....scenarios. A. Fluke B. She ran away but is still using the same phone. C. She was abducted but her captor let her use a charger.

None of these make sense. Any ideas?

The phone rings because the ring is a sound that the phone company plays when it’s trying to find the phone, which takes time. It doesn’t mean the phone you’re trying to reach is also ringing or even turned on. After a certain amount of time, if the phone is not found or doesn’t answer, it sends you to voicemail.

 

[GraceG]

On Sam's Instagram - scroll back a few pages, there's a photo of her in a very high altitude situation and she makes a light-hearted comment about finding the most precarious spot (and it was) and perching on it. Her Mom commented, "that's my girl!" So she knows that her daughter is a risk taker, but as a Mom is always going to hope for a good outcome. As a Mom to a young woman myself who regularly hikes and climbs in the Rockies, I'd have a hard time giving up on hope.

 

[Suglo]

Just an update from the videos from Samantha’s mother.

First, in a video last night she said that they are looking at ALL possibilities, but they don’t want to discuss them on the Facebook page. This is hopeful, because it hopefully indicates that they are also considering using cadaver dogs. They just don’t want the Facebook page to get bogged down in that kind of stuff.

Her mother posted a more ranting video this morning, but the main thing is they want to know if they can ping a dead cellphone and are trying to get help from google, sprint, etc. She can’t get an answer from them and is asking the Facebook page to call whoever they can (Google, congresspeople, etc) to get answers. Basically, the issue is (although she doesn’t know it) she needs a subpoena. Because of the vast amounts of data they collect, Google and other telecommunications companies do not just hand over data, even if a person is missing, unless that person is a child. I don’t know if a dead phone can be tracked. It would seem to be unlikely. However, they may be able to get the last known location before it died, but I don’t know if this would be any different from the pings they have.

Second, she asks questions like if the phone is dead, why is it ringing? This is a common issue that missing people’s families have a problem understanding. The ring is the cellphone company trying to find the phone. It does not mean the phone is ringing or even has reception. It’s just a sound they play to make sure the person waiting on the line knows they are searching for the phone.

Google and Samsung don’t know if she’s missing voluntarily or not. They are not about to hand over info because they feel bad for her. Like you said, they will need to get a subpoena. The thing is that they already hacked into her phone and got the last known location before it died. I know there have been rumors and such that the NSA knows how to track a dead phone. Sounds like science fiction to me. How can you track something that is not emitting a signal at all? There is also the issue that the last pings they got may not be very exact because of the mountaneous terrain.

I have a feeling Samantha is near the top of the mountain. She got a late start and was planning on being back down by 6:00 pm. I doubt she went to another peak or lake that wasn’t on the actual trail. They just need to search under brush, trees and in crevasses. They probably need more technical climbers up there to get to those areas where she could have fallen. You have to wonder about the relationship between the family and the Snohomish SAR group. I have seen in the past that SAR group members continue to help families even when the official search is over. I wonder why that isn’t happening here?

 

[zecats]

The phone rings because the ring is a sound that the phone company plays when it’s trying to find the phone, which takes time. It doesn’t mean the phone you’re trying to reach is also ringing or even turned on. After a certain amount of time, if the phone is not found or doesn’t answer, it sends you to voicemail.

Actually when a phone is dead or even set in airplane mode as I often do to save data while using my WiFi, the cell does not ring for the person calling either. It goes directly to voicemail. I know because I’ve trief to call myself from my landline when I can’t find my phone. Or someone else tried to call me and tells me such. iPhone user here with Verizon so that’s my knowledge base.

 

[AllGrace]

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