Was Burke Involved? # 4

[BBB167893]

Hey, guys. We all know by now that the CBS special's theory is that Burke was angry because JB stole some of his pineapple. Well, I'd like some help on this. Is it true that during his interview with Dr. Bernhard, she took a sip from his drink and he got upset about it? Saying that he couldn't drink from it anymore? If so, it would indicate a boy with some SERIOUS personal space issues. It might also explain why he left it there on the table and why he got so upset: because someone else touched it, it was "ruined."

Is this right? Or am I finally case-crazy?

 

[debbiegarcia36]

Hey, guys. We all know by now that the CBS special's theory is that Burke was angry because JB stole some of his pineapple. Well, I'd like some help on this. Is it true that during his interview with Dr. Bernhard, she took a sip from his drink and he got upset about it? Saying that he couldn't drink from it anymore? If so, it would indicate a boy with some SERIOUS personal space issues. It might also explain why he left it there on the table and why he got so upset: because someone else touched it, it was "ruined."

Is this right? Or am I finally case-crazy?

I agree. Same goes if she knocked over one of his toys. A kid that smears feces has serious issues as well.

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[Mandala]

somebody on YT posted this link from the NY Times. Almost difficult to read to be honest. I admire parents who are dealt a rough hand and persevere, and do their best to raise 'good' kids. But in some cases it sounds like the genetics are against you.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/05/13/magazine/can-you-call-a-9-year-old-a-psychopath.html

Wow, very chilling article. It makes me wonder, did the R's housekeeper ever mention anything about B's behaviour that seemed abnormal?

 

[just the facts pls]

Hey, guys. We all know by now that the CBS special's theory is that Burke was angry because JB stole some of his pineapple. Well, I'd like some help on this. Is it true that during his interview with Dr. Bernhard, she took a sip from his drink and he got upset about it? Saying that he couldn't drink from it anymore? If so, it would indicate a boy with some SERIOUS personal space issues. It might also explain why he left it there on the table and why he got so upset: because someone else touched it, it was "ruined."

Is this right? Or am I finally case-crazy?

No, I don't think you're crazy. It's interesting that you brought this up because I was once told by a second grade teacher that "space issues" (overreacting to perceived intrusions or even slight physical contact contact) can be associated with ADHD. ADHD, in turn, is associated with other disorders 2/3 of time including conduct disorder and oppositional defiant disorder which often develops into antisocial personality disorder.

I can't say that BR had these disorders, only that if he did have space issues it could have been indicative of serious developmental issues as a child.

Edited to add: Wasn't there a photographer that said Burke screamed at her "don't touch me" because she was just in the same room as him?

 

[SweetCaramels]

You've probably already seen that intent is not required to constitute the charge of murder (in Colorado). But that's the reason for excluding what Colorado calls and "infant" (a child under the age of ten) from any criminal liability. Their reasoning is that an "infant" is unable to form criminal intent. Surely anyone can see that this reasoning is not without merit if you consider the actions of (say) a 5yo. That child just isn't old enough to know right from wrong. So at what age do lawmakers cut off that age of responsibility? In Colorado, they chose the age of ten. In my state, that age is flexible depending on how heinous the crime is, but a judge has to decide whether or not to allow a DA to proceed with criminal charges against a child. (At least that is my understanding of it; and actually, I'm more familiar with the laws of Colorado now than I am with my own state.)

I guess not unless it was determined the murder was committed during the sexual abuse. Otherwise it would seem like some kind of intent is required.

 

[ThinkHard]

Hey, guys. We all know by now that the CBS special's theory is that Burke was angry because JB stole some of his pineapple. Well, I'd like some help on this. Is it true that during his interview with Dr. Bernhard, she took a sip from his drink and he got upset about it? Saying that he couldn't drink from it anymore? If so, it would indicate a boy with some SERIOUS personal space issues. It might also explain why he left it there on the table and why he got so upset: because someone else touched it, it was "ruined."

Is this right? Or am I finally case-crazy?

That kind of behavior is often seen on OCD.

Not saying Burke has OCD just saying having real issues with people touching their food, or being weird about germs from others in general, is often associated with OCD.

 

[ThinkHard]

I agree. Same goes if she knocked over one of his toys. A kid that smears feces has serious issues as well.

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Food & feces is always about control.

With feces it's like a dog who marks his territory, he's saying "I own you"

 

[ThinkHard]

No, I don't think you're crazy. It's interesting that you brought this up because I was once told by a second grade teacher that "space issues" (overreacting to perceived intrusions or even slight physical contact contact) can be associated with ADHD. ADHD, in turn, is associated with other disorders 2/3 of time including conduct disorder and oppositional defiant disorder which often develops into antisocial personality disorder.

I can't say that BR had these disorders, only that if he did have space issues it could have been indicative of serious developmental issues as a child.

Edited to add: Wasn't there a photographer that said Burke screamed at her "don't touch me" because she was just in the same room as him?

Interesting I have been an educator a while now, and I would be unlikely to associate personal space issues with ADHD. In my experience it's usually the ADHD kids who are constantly in violation of others personal space, not the ones concerned if their personal space is violate. Usually in my experience space issues are a Sensory Processing Issue, sensory seekers try to innapropriately hug, where as sensory avoiders are the kids the stiffen if you touch them. Of course it's possible to have ADHD and sensory dysfunction together.

However food could be more about germs, then personal space which makes me think in Burkes case it may have been more of an OCD thing.....which btw OCD can develop when a child feels their world is out of control so they try to compulsively gain control over what pieces of their life they can.

 

[johnjay]

Hey, guys. We all know by now that the CBS special's theory is that Burke was angry because JB stole some of his pineapple. Well, I'd like some help on this. Is it true that during his interview with Dr. Bernhard, she took a sip from his drink and he got upset about it? Saying that he couldn't drink from it anymore? If so, it would indicate a boy with some SERIOUS personal space issues. It might also explain why he left it there on the table and why he got so upset: because someone else touched it, it was "ruined."

Is this right? Or am I finally case-crazy?

Oh that's interesting, it wasn't that she just nicked a piece of pineapple, she ruined the whole bowl for him.

 

[ThinkHard]

I think that may explain why it was left unfinished too.

Though I don't buy the pineapple being the reason he clobbered her over the head though. I know that's conventional theory from CBS, but I still think he hit her sometime after the pineapple incident.

 

[Ambitioned]

I don't buy the forgiveness thing from the Ramseys unless they were medicated or under the influence of some pastor at the time. How could John forgive some phantom stranger that wasn''t even known or caught and could be out there hurting other children. He doesn't seem to have forgiven the media and police for loss of finances and business. I've thought that he would not be stupid enough to go along with the ransom note, but thinking more of the forgiveness statement , and not being angry makes we think maybe he is stupid enough to have written it or approved .

Reading this board, it's funny how forgiveness means different things to different people or denominations. I've heard some say they cannot forgive until the one who deeply hurt them admits wrongdoing and asks for forgiveness.

 

[Ambitioned]

I beg to differ. I think the wording of th GJ indictment does indicate to some degree who did what.

What do you think of this? Valid or someone trying too hard to sway to IDI? https://www.reddit.com/r/JonBenet/comments/56396e/confused_about_the_gj/

Feel free to delete if I'm breaking rules.

IMO I agree with you about the wording. But it's not so much the wording of the true bills. it's the fact the GJ found enough evidence to admit the four charges.

As the public, we have only seen a small portion of evidence.

 

[Heymom]

Reading this board, it's funny how forgiveness means different things to different people or denominations. I've heard some say they cannot forgive until the one who deeply hurt them admits wrongdoing and asks for forgiveness.

That must not be a Christian. Jesus told us to forgive others seventy times seven and turn the other cheek. Leave the judgement to God and not hold resentments and grudges in our hearts. The kind of forgiveness in my faith is not dependent upon the other's repentance, although that is of course the optimal, but not usually achievable, end point. We must forgive for our soul's sake, because harboring resentments separates US from the mercy of God. God gives us mercy in spite of ourselves, so we must endeavor to do the same.

 

[Ambitioned]

He also said "One of her eyes was kinda droopy...."

Maybe because you had HIT HER IN THE HEAD so hard it cracked her skull nearly in half??? Or because of the AUTOPSY that was necessary because she was MURDERED??

What a rotten thing to say about your dead sister lying in her coffin.

He's a horrible excuse for a human being.

What he said wasn't bad enough. It's fact he said it with beaming smiles and giddiness.

"Burke, did you harm your sister?" (Huge grin) "Absolutely not."

Yes he is despicable.

 

[Ambitioned]

Hey, guys. We all know by now that the CBS special's theory is that Burke was angry because JB stole some of his pineapple. Well, I'd like some help on this. Is it true that during his interview with Dr. Bernhard, she took a sip from his drink and he got upset about it? Saying that he couldn't drink from it anymore? If so, it would indicate a boy with some SERIOUS personal space issues. It might also explain why he left it there on the table and why he got so upset: because someone else touched it, it was "ruined."

Yeah he did get upset when she touched his soda. Now many have poo-poohed it, saying it's germy and they'd be upset too. I think it shows a lot about his behavior though. It was certainly cause for Dr. Bernhard to mention it. I don't necessarily believe she was hit over the pineapple but I believe it could have started the chain of events that night. "Dont you dare touch my food!"

And would help explain why the bowl sat there unfinished.

 

[JerseyGirl33]

Reading this board, it's funny how forgiveness means different things to different people or denominations. I've heard some say they cannot forgive until the one who deeply hurt them admits wrongdoing and asks for forgiveness.

That's how I perceive forgiveness...what that means for me, knowing I will never get an apology...is I still hurt when I think of what was done to me. I'm trying to change my mindset...but how can you forgive someone who won't admit he never did you any harm?

 

[Heymom]

I thought it was one of the detectives, and that person had drank from Burke's soda can accidentally. I do wonder if maybe they were testing him to see what his response might be. I will go look at Kolar's book to see if it was the psych. or a detective. They did note that he would not drink from the can after that. I probably wouldn't, either, frankly, but at his age, I wouldn't have cared as much about germs.

 

[Heymom]

That's how I perceive forgiveness...what that means for me, knowing I will never get an apology...is I still hurt when I think of what was done to me. I'm trying to change my mindset...but how can you forgive someone who won't admit he never did you any harm?

You forgive him in spite of himself. However, this does not mean that you treat that person in the same way as someone who has never hurt you. You can forgive, but still not trust that person in the same way again. I am not saying it is easy to forgive some very grave wrongs....Only that it is a burden to carry that pain in your heart and better to lay it down and be able to move on.

 

[dogperson]

I don't know that we can read anything into Burke's behavior about his soft drink. I don't have any germ phobias but as a child, and now an adult, I think it's particularly disgusting to drink after someone else. I can't help thinking about the "backwash". I'm not finicky about anything else and rarely think about germs or catching viruses, but something about drinking after another person just seems nasty.

But if Burke was upset because someone else "dared" to touch something that belonged to him, that's another matter. It may have had more to do with his personal space than anything to do with germs. True, some people with OCD have germ phobias, but many of them do not. Plus, people with OCD are not usually violent. Instead they are overly concerned with preventing harm.

 

[ThinkHard]

That's how I perceive forgiveness...what that means for me, knowing I will never get an apology...is I still hurt when I think of what was done to me. I'm trying to change my mindset...but how can you forgive someone who won't admit he never did you any harm?

You don't forgive other people for their benefit, you do it for yourself, so you don't have to carry around all the weight of the negative energy anymore. Forgiveness is a gift you give to yourself, more then anything you bestow on someone else.