Was Burke Involved? # 4

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If he were two or three, then wouldn't his sister be a fetus?
Right? Every time those people were questioned, they got by with giving nonsensical responses and nobody called them out on it. Reading the interrogations makes me crazy. Instead of allowing them to fully respond, the cops kept interrupting them or sometimes even answering for them. Pitiful interrogation techniques.
 
Yes PL, Glen Stine followed the Ramseys to Atlanta in the summer of 1998 after resigning as Vice President for Budget and Finance at the University of Colorado.

When I think of the pitbull, I shake my head and think of her e-mail fiasco.

In case people don't know about this it's here. Just do a find for Beckner :)

Unlawful e-mails sent under Chief Beckner's name



Did she seriously think they wouldn't find out? :facepalm:

Wow. Just wow. How this woman escaped prosecution is amazing
 
And in the mean time....
A little beautiful innocent girl lies in a grave, brutally murdered and no answers to the crime.
Disgusting!

Indeed. And I'll tell you what's also disgusting. When a comedian tries to revive his sad career by joking about a dead girl. Google Jon Stewart and Jonbenet. There's plenty of fodder without having to bring her into it.
 
Indeed. And I'll tell you what's also disgusting. When a comedian tries to revive his sad career by joking about a dead girl. Google Jon Stewart and Jonbenet. There's plenty of fodder without having to bring her into it.

Not defending whatever the joke was, but by describing Stewart's career as "sad" you're letting your political viewpoint show.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jon_Stewart#Honors_and_awards

Rather we not go down this rabbit hole. The election will be over soon enough.
 
But there was no evidence of bleeding from her head wound. The scalp was intact. The ME wasn't aware of any head injury until he reflected the scalp.

Hmmm interesting, so then, do you have any thoughts on where the blood would have come from?
 
The source and the amount of blood on JonBenet's pillow is not known. The only official reference to it is in one of the interviews where Patsy was questioned about it. I tried to get clarification on it from Kolar in his AMA. Here is my question and his answer:

Q:
Because of a line of questioning in one of Patsy Ramsey’s police interviews, there is speculation about blood on JonBenet’s pillow. Is this just a small smear (like from wiping her nose), or is there an actual blood stain as might be expected from some type of injury?

A: My apologies, but in some instances it has been years since I reviewed information about specific topics or evidence and my memory is a little vague in some areas. With that qualifier, it is my recollection that any blood observed on her pillow was minimal and not attributable to an ‘injury.’ For sake of clarification, the only bleeding sustained from an injury was due to the vaginal intrusion. The blow to JBR’s head did not break the scalp and there was no exterior bleeding from that wound. Further, the coroner made no mention of an injury to her nose, or nasal bleeding. Draw your own conclusions.


https://www.reddit.com/r/UnresolvedMysteries/comments/30nfvc/hi_im_chief_marshall_james_kolar_ama/

Ah, so it was unrelated to the crime most likely. Thanks Otg -- everyone's knowledge here is very impressive.
 
Not defending whatever the joke was, but by describing Stewart's career as "sad" you're letting your political viewpoint show.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jon_Stewart#Honors_and_awards

Rather we not go down this rabbit hole. The election will be over soon enough.

Sounds like you have your panties in a bunch.

Sad: informal
pathetically inadequate or unfashionable.

As in, he hasn't been doing comedy lately. I don't even know his politics not am I a regular listener. Just read from comments that he is a has-been and there was no need to bring a dead child into a joke. From the comments on the internet, many agree.
 
Sounds like you have your panties in a bunch.



As in, he hasn't been doing comedy lately. I don't even know his politics not am I a regular listener. Just read from comments that he is a has-been and there was no need to bring a dead child into a joke. From the comments on the internet, many agree.
Wow just watched that clip of his little routine with her in it. Very disgusting honestly. She was a 6 yr old innocent murder victim. No where near OJ.

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk
 
So we don't have a confirmation that these really ARE the long johns JBR was wearing when she was "found" by her dad? I'd really like to know, because the panties and these thermal underwear are *not* in her size and neither would have stayed in place had she been able to stand up. If she was found in these, then someone dressed her in them while she was unconscious but before she actually passed away, because she released her bladder contents. All this time, I thought she had only urinated a tiny bit, and bled a tiny bit, into the new Bloomies, but if this is real, there is a different scenario to consider.

Sorry to keep you waiting. :)
and a preamble of sorts.

http://www.denverpost.com/2015/07/2...secutor-bruce-levin-dies-leaves-legal-legacy/

As those of you who’ve read the interviews in 2000 know, Bruce Levin was hired to assist in the questioning of JR. (JR had been asked previously about his participation in helping JB with her toileting and/or helping with preparing her for bed.) In this 2000 interview Levin had the delicate task of asking JR about the presence of fibers found in the crotch of the oversize Bloomies consistent with fibers of his Israeli wool shirt. Whether anyone wishes to discount that info or not, makes no difference to me. I only wished to give acknowledgement to Levin who passed away last year and to highlight his integrity as a prosecutor. From his obituary were some lines which stood out to me:

Robert Fuller, a former investigator for the Adams County Sheriff’s Office, recalled Levin’s closing argument in the prosecution of Daniel Melina, accused in the witness slaying of Paul Bueno, was so powerful it left Fuller in tears . . .

“Bruce was a man who always wanted to do the right thing, and the right thing was not always the easy thing. And it wasn’t always the thing that made people comfortable,” said Colorado Appeals Court Judge Steve Bernard, who worked with Levin in Adams County as a prosecutor. “Sometimes doing the right thing involved a level of personal sacrifice, but he always, always did the right thing.”


Levin’s difficult interview usually led me to the Bloomies question which recently has led me to evaluating the photos which appeared this past week. I, too, was surprised at what looks like a ‘flood’ of urine on both the Bloomies and the long-johns. Someone wiped away JB’s blood from her genital area and her thigh, but did not change her after her bladder released at death. Since I’m particular about sources I consequently made some effort to verify with reliable authorities that these photos did come from investigators’ files.
 
Sorry to keep you waiting. :)
and a preamble of sorts.

http://www.denverpost.com/2015/07/2...secutor-bruce-levin-dies-leaves-legal-legacy/

As those of you who’ve read the interviews in 2000 know, Bruce Levin was hired to assist in the questioning of JR. (JR had been asked previously about his participation in helping JB with her toileting and/or helping with preparing her for bed.) In this 2000 interview Levin had the delicate task of asking JR about the presence of fibers found in the crotch of the oversize Bloomies consistent with fibers of his Israeli wool shirt. Whether anyone wishes to discount that info or not, makes no difference to me. I only wished to give acknowledgement to Levin who passed away last year and to highlight his integrity as a prosecutor. From his obituary were some lines which stood out to me:

Robert Fuller, a former investigator for the Adams County Sheriff’s Office, recalled Levin’s closing argument in the prosecution of Daniel Melina, accused in the witness slaying of Paul Bueno, was so powerful it left Fuller in tears . . .

“Bruce was a man who always wanted to do the right thing, and the right thing was not always the easy thing. And it wasn’t always the thing that made people comfortable,” said Colorado Appeals Court Judge Steve Bernard, who worked with Levin in Adams County as a prosecutor. “Sometimes doing the right thing involved a level of personal sacrifice, but he always, always did the right thing.”


Levin’s difficult interview usually led me to the Bloomies question which recently has led me to evaluating the photos which appeared this past week. I, too, was surprised at what looks like a ‘flood’ of urine on both the Bloomies and the long-johns. Someone wiped away JB’s blood from her genital area and her thigh, but did not change her after her bladder released at death. Since I’m particular about sources I consequently made some effort to verify with reliable authorities that these photos did come from investigators’ files.
Thank you!

"I consequently made some effort to verify with reliable authorities that these photos did come from investigators’ files."
I am quite intrigued by your post. It sounds as though you have a contact with insider info. (?)
 
Ah, so it was unrelated to the crime most likely. Thanks Otg -- everyone's knowledge here is very impressive.

Userid,
There may have been nasal discharge from the brain, or there may have been forensic transfer from JonBenet's internal assault. Consider she might have been cleaned up and redressed in her bedroom, so a transfer of blood is probable. Again consider the bloodstain on the white blanket, pink barbie nightgown, etc.
 
Userid,
There may have been nasal discharge from the brain, or there may have been forensic transfer from JonBenet's internal assault. Consider she might have been cleaned up and redressed in her bedroom, so a transfer of blood is probable. Again consider the bloodstain on the white blanket, pink barbie nightgown, etc.
http://listverse.com/2012/01/09/top-10-occurrences-before-and-after-death/
This is a pretty interesting and easily understood link on things to expect after and before death occurs. The blood on the pillow I think originated from the vaginal injury. Remember her pillow was at the foot of the bed not the head of the bed.
The drainage from her nose could be from a few things:
1.) She was known to have allergies. If her nose was stuffy that evening, when her muscles relaxed during death the sinuses may have drained.
2.) She was strangled with a ligature at least once. That could cause a pressure buildup in her nasal passages that released at death.
3.) She did have a severe head injury leading up to her death.
4.) She had been apparently in the stages of dying after the head wound and her lungs may have been filling with fluid as well as her throat and nasal passages.
5.) The nasal drainage could have occurred after her body was placed in the final position. It could have went unnoticed by those who staged her body because it was clearish and wet at the time. Only later drying and crusting.
6.) Blood was noted in other areas so depending on the actual spot of blood on the pillow, a blood expert could tell if it was a drop from an object, a splatter, etc. I'm sure they do know this.

I have a question. Did the Ramsey's use what we in the medical profession call "Chucks" on her bed a night to keep her from ruining her sheets and mattress?
These are disposable large sheets that capture urine and such in the event of incontinence.
The reason I ask is .... if they were found in her home, they could have easily used this item to lay under JonBenet as they wiped her down and cleaned her up. It would explain (if she was found in her room that is) why the bed sheets were pulled back so far and the pillow was at the foot of the bed. A chuck could have been laid on the bed with her on top, wiped down and redressed, and then moved to the wine cellar. The chuck could have been disposed with the other evidence. The reason I say it may have pointed to the the staging in the bedroom is this.
The supplies needed to clean her up would have been kept in or near her bedroom. Those items would normally be found in or near a kids room who suffered from incontinence. So it wouldn't have seemed out of place to find those items. (Baby wipes, chucks, etc).
But there was none found with blood or other fluids. Which means the evidence was disposed of. They had plenty of time that night to dispose of items. It's quite possible that this is the reason the lights were off outside. So no one saw movement outside.
I do not think she urinated until she was outside of the wine cellar. I think that is where the last fatal move was made. I will say again.... who ever did that final ligature in my opinion committed Murder in the First Degree. No matter the reason. Whether it was done to end her suffering or just to end it or stage it. They did it with the knowledge that it was a fatal move and did it with intent. Even staging it to appear as she was strangled.... which she was and possibly the parents thought she was already dead.....that final movement was done deliberately and during the commission of a crime. There is no statute on First Degree murder.
Test the ligature for DNA and more evidence. Regardless of who initially began the attack, the one who applied the final ligature ended her life. If that person was not BR, then they can be prosecuted for First Degree Murder.
JMOO
This is a "Chuck" it is spread out over the sheet or under depending on the user. One could have been used to clean her up on and thrown away afterward.
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Regarding the blood on the pillow: in his reddit AMA, Kolar says "it is my recollection that any blood observed on her pillow was minimal and not attributable to an ‘injury.’"
 
You know, this is just not supposed to be here but I have to ask, if YOUR house were subject to an uannounced search by an entire police department, would they find blood on your pillowcases, unflushed toilets, fecal smearing on candy, sheets that reek of urine and tons of fecal stained underpants? Forget everything else. Isn't this very unusual even for a house with a 6 year old and 9 year old child?

Please. I need to know.
 
Regarding the blood on the pillow: in his reddit AMA, Kolar says "it is my recollection that any blood observed on her pillow was minimal and not attributable to an ‘injury.’"


kanzz,
Which can be interpreted as police speak for forensic transfer. More politely Kolar's statement is consistent with forensic transfer.

Bear in mind Kolar is not allowed to offer opinions on certain subjects.
 
You know, this is just not supposed to be here but I have to ask, if YOUR house were subject to an uannounced search by an entire police department, would they find blood on your pillowcases, unflushed toilets, fecal smearing on candy, sheets that reek of urine and tons of fecal stained underpants? Forget everything else. Isn't this very unusual even for a house with a 6 year old and 9 year old child?

Please. I need to know.

TeaTime,
The bloodstain on the pillow is unexplained. Until its shown to be unrelated to JonBenet's death, we can assume it is linked in some manner. Just as there is a bloodstain on her pink barbie nightgown and the white blanket, both unexplained, but I'm certain we can all guess why. Similarly for the pillow.

.
 
You know, this is just not supposed to be here but I have to ask, if YOUR house were subject to an uannounced search by an entire police department, would they find blood on your pillowcases, unflushed toilets, fecal smearing on candy, sheets that reek of urine and tons of fecal stained underpants? Forget everything else. Isn't this very unusual even for a house with a 6 year old and 9 year old child?

Please. I need to know.

Yeah very unusual. I've read about children taken away for less, especially in Chester County, SC. One woman worked for the school district and her son was mentally handicapped but she left him home while she worked. He'd take the feces from the kitty litter and smear it on the walls. He was taken away for that issue alone, never mind being left at home.

Laura Richards talked about how they tried to replicate the house as much as possible. She mentioned they used peanut butter on the basement toilet walls to replicate the smears. That makes me think the smears were fecal and not peanut butter.

If it was fecal, that house was dirtier than I even thought. They showed Patsy pictures and she said, "Wow that IS dirty."

I'm not judging, but wondering what went through the LE's minds as they went through that house. And what did the friends think??? :yuck:
 
I've always thought that it looks as if there was blood coming from her right ear in one of the pictures. I can't tell if it's just a shadow though, although it's a strange shadow if it is. I appreciate that there is no mention of it in the autopsy report.


18214d1213070520-jonben-t-ramsey-autopsy-crime-scene-photos-0jonbenetfaceop.jpg
 
Well clear fluid or watery blood leaking from the ear or nose are signs of serious brain injury. Its possible more was wiped off during staging.
 
kanzz,
Which can be interpreted as police speak for forensic transfer. More politely Kolar's statement is consistent with forensic transfer.

Bear in mind Kolar is not allowed to offer opinions on certain subjects.

I'm not sure I'm following you on this. Because when Kolar says "it is my recollection that any blood observed on her pillow was minimal and not attributable to an ‘injury.’"; he goes further - "For sake of clarification, the only bleeding sustained from an injury was due to the vaginal intrusion. The blow to JBR’s head did not break the scalp and there was no exterior bleeding from that wound. Further, the coroner made no mention of an injury to her nose, or nasal bleeding. Draw your own conclusions." I think he's being straightforward here. Forensic transfer, from what I understand, means that blood (or other fluids) gets onto something either from the victim or the perp during the commission of the crime or immediately thereafter, n'est pas? I realize Kolar is somewhat restrained due to concerns about repercussion. I don't blame him. Maybe we'll learn more about this pillowcase in the new FF.
 
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