Was Burke Involved? # 4

DNA Solves
DNA Solves
DNA Solves
Status
Not open for further replies.
I've always thought that it looks as if there was blood coming from her right ear in one of the pictures. I can't tell if it's just a shadow though, although it's a strange shadow if it is. I appreciate that there is no mention of it in the autopsy report.


18214d1213070520-jonben-t-ramsey-autopsy-crime-scene-photos-0jonbenetfaceop.jpg

Enhanced:

attachment.php
 

Attachments

  • ramsey JB autopsy ear2.jpg
    ramsey JB autopsy ear2.jpg
    59.3 KB · Views: 571
You know, this is just not supposed to be here but I have to ask, if YOUR house were subject to an uannounced search by an entire police department, would they find blood on your pillowcases, unflushed toilets, fecal smearing on candy, sheets that reek of urine and tons of fecal stained underpants? Forget everything else. Isn't this very unusual even for a house with a 6 year old and 9 year old child?

Please. I need to know.
:laughing:
attachment.php
 

Attachments

  • 1375ceedeab62f26227a00a1487017c0.jpg
    1375ceedeab62f26227a00a1487017c0.jpg
    75.3 KB · Views: 543
A 6 year old? Blood on the pillowcase could easily be from loosing a tooth....
 
TeaTime,
The bloodstain on the pillow is unexplained. Until its shown to be unrelated to JonBenet's death, we can assume it is linked in some manner. Just as there is a bloodstain on her pink barbie nightgown and the white blanket, both unexplained, but I'm certain we can all guess why. Similarly for the pillow.

.

Let's try not to assume. It leads people off in all sorts of rabbit-trails. You know what they say about assuming. Amazingly enough, not everything in that house was related to the murder.
 
Let's try not to assume. It leads people off in all sorts of rabbit-trails. You know what they say about assuming. Amazingly enough, not everything in that house was related to the murder.

Heymom,
BBM: That is precisely its purpose. Its use is optional hence the use of can. So you feel free to ignore the blood on the pillow.

I never used to give it much thought but I would nowadays assume that events of the Ramsey Christmas Party and events on the night of JonBenet's death are somehow linked?

1. Christmas Party: Susan and Douglas Stine present.

2. Christmas Visit: Susan and Douglas Stine present.

Susan Stine says the R's were all bubbly full of Christmas cheer, yet JR says he stayed in the car with JonBenet. So maybe the R's requested the Stines to collude in their version of events, after the fact of course?

You have to wonder what the Stine's knew for the R's to disburse their patronage and largesse upon them?

.
.
 
Heymom,
BBM: That is precisely its purpose. Its use is optional hence the use of can. So you feel free to ignore the blood on the pillow.

I never used to give it much thought but I would nowadays assume that events of the Ramsey Christmas Party and events on the night of JonBenet's death are somehow linked?

1. Christmas Party: Susan and Douglas Stine present.

2. Christmas Visit: Susan and Douglas Stine present.

Susan Stine says the R's were all bubbly full of Christmas cheer, yet JR says he stayed in the car with JonBenet. So maybe the R's requested the Stines to collude in their version of events, after the fact of course?

You have to wonder what the Stine's knew for the R's to disburse their patronage and largesse upon them?

.
.
Hi UkGuy, I'm afraid I don't know enough about the blood stained pillow to give any further thoughts. With regard to the Stines, they are just yet another factor (and there are so many in this case) that seems strange and makes you go hmmm, but with no evidence of anything more than that, one way or another. So many things in this case seem strange coincidences or unexplained, and who knows if they are connected, or, as Heymom says, are mere red herrings?

I agree that the Stines do seem connected to the Ramseys in some way that, in my own opinion, seems to go above and beyond friendship alone- answering the door to the police at the Ramseys home (why didn't JR or PR answer their own front door themselves?), sending emails to impersonate LE, and moving states to follow the Ramseys. However, while these things seem odd enough to raise eyebrows, that's all we can say right now. If there is anything more that the police somehow missed, maybe someone will talk eventually or something will come to light, in time. If not, then time will also bear that out in future, too. I always like to hope that the truth will out eventually, one way or the other!

I've only ever seen one interview with SS, and I think it was on the documentary "Jonbenet's America", where she was defending the Ramseys, especially Patsy, and saying how she couldn't accept either of them being involved in the crime in any way, because she knew them so well. It struck me, and this is only my opinion, that she might be one of those people who prides herself on being a "good judge of character", who is never wrong about people. As well as being dazzled and impressed by the Ramseys (who were pretty charming and manipulative), she probably didn't like to think that she might have been duped, and therefore refused to consider it. I could be completely wrong, of course- just my take on it, as one reason why she was defending them so adamantly.

Focussing on the 3 Ramseys- JR, PR and BR- there are enough odd things surrounding them with regard to the party on 23rd and afterwards. The fact that there were two 911 calls connected to the Ramsey home in some way, within days of each other, and their daughter ends up murdered, seems to be an extremely unusual coincidence, at the very least. There are several possibilities- it was an accident, as the police were told; it was a prank call; someone was calling for help or witnessed something; or someone was testing police response times? The last option seems least likely to me, only because this would indicate premeditation of some sort, and therefore seem to point away from a BDI scenario?

Again, this isn't a fact, just my instincts, but I find it strange that JR and PR repeatedly used the word "zonked" to describe JB in the car on the way home. It could just be their choice of word and not mean anything, but to me, it implies being unconscious or knocked out on drugs, rather than asleep.

Also, BR contradicted them, and told police that JB walked into the house herself, when they arrived home. If JR and PR were following some kind of script with their use of the word "zonked", then BR clearly wasn't following their script. Was this because he was telling the truth, and they were lying? If so, why did they need to lie? Or, was it because they were telling the truth, and he was lying, thinking that for some reason it would be better for him?
 
Hi UkGuy, I'm afraid I don't know enough about the blood stained pillow to give any further thoughts. With regard to the Stines, they are just yet another factor (and there are so many in this case) that seems strange and makes you go hmmm, but with no evidence of anything more than that, one way or another. So many things in this case seem strange coincidences or unexplained, and who knows if they are connected, or, as Heymom says, are mere red herrings?

I agree that the Stines do seem connected to the Ramseys in some way that, in my own opinion, seems to go above and beyond friendship alone- answering the door to the police at the Ramseys home (why didn't JR or PR answer their own front door themselves?), sending emails to impersonate LE, and moving states to follow the Ramseys. However, while these things seem odd enough to raise eyebrows, that's all we can say right now. If there is anything more that the police somehow missed, maybe someone will talk eventually or something will come to light, in time. If not, then time will also bear that out in future, too. I always like to hope that the truth will out eventually, one way or the other!

I've only ever seen one interview with SS, and I think it was on the documentary "Jonbenet's America", where she was defending the Ramseys, especially Patsy, and saying how she couldn't accept either of them being involved in the crime in any way, because she knew them so well. It struck me, and this is only my opinion, that she might be one of those people who prides herself on being a "good judge of character", who is never wrong about people. As well as being dazzled and impressed by the Ramseys (who were pretty charming and manipulative), she probably didn't like to think that she might have been duped, and therefore refused to consider it. I could be completely wrong, of course- just my take on it, as one reason why she was defending them so adamantly.

Focussing on the 3 Ramseys- JR, PR and BR- there are enough odd things surrounding them with regard to the party on 23rd and afterwards. The fact that there were two 911 calls connected to the Ramsey home in some way, within days of each other, and their daughter ends up murdered, seems to be an extremely unusual coincidence, at the very least. There are several possibilities- it was an accident, as the police were told; it was a prank call; someone was calling for help or witnessed something; or someone was testing police response times? The last option seems least likely to me, only because this would indicate premeditation of some sort, and therefore seem to point away from a BDI scenario?

Again, this isn't a fact, just my instincts, but I find it strange that JR and PR repeatedly used the word "zonked" to describe JB in the car on the way home. It could just be their choice of word and not mean anything, but to me, it implies being unconscious or knocked out on drugs, rather than asleep.

Also, BR contradicted them, and told police that JB walked into the house herself, when they arrived home. If JR and PR were following some kind of script with their use of the word "zonked", then BR clearly wasn't following their script. Was this because he was telling the truth, and they were lying? If so, why did they need to lie? Or, was it because they were telling the truth, and he was lying, thinking that for some reason it would be better for him?

Scandigirl,

The blood on the pillow night be relevant, who knows, but interestingly there was also blood on items found in the wine-cellar crime-scene. JonBenet could have been moved from her bedroom to the basement, so the blood stained pillow might place JonBenet in her bedroom, and not in the breakfast bar, as Kolar suggests along with CBS. Bear in mind the CBS documentaries are entertainment, they don't have to tell it like it really was, particularly if you are ex law enforcement and have signed off on all the non-disclosure protocols.

Where the Stine's are concerned the common link is Doug Stine, buddy of BR. The Stine's know where the skeletons are buried, and patently have dirt on the R's. I'll just mention sleepovers and leave it there.

Again, this isn't a fact, just my instincts, but I find it strange that JR and PR repeatedly used the word "zonked" to describe JB in the car on the way home
I agree, zonked is not the same as asleep is it? You can be zonked and awake I've heard some cannabis smokers refer to themselves as being zonked, yet they looked fine to me. zonked sounds like the R's term for being tired or worn out?

I reckon everyone can see that the version of events regarding the Stine visit is less than truthful. It's a good example of Ramsey speak, particularly with BR saying JonBenet walked into the house.

.
 
My take on it is John/Patsy invented the lie that JonBenet fell asleep by the time they got home. Notice how the words vary in police interviews, as to the stage at which JonBenet fell asleep. Since it's hard to believe she fell so deeply asleep between the Stines and home, literally two turns of the car, they extended it to her probably being asleep during the visit to the Stines. As John would probably not have left JonBenet asleep in the car on her own, he had to remain outside too. That is where he got into difficulty with his JonBenet sleeping/zonked lie, and had to feign poor memory of the visit. He couldn't guarantee what the Stines had told police.
 
Has anyone got a theory for the Santa Claus letter torn up in JonBenet's bedroom bin?

Has it been discussed in any of the books and was it fingerprinted?
 
My take on it is John/Patsy invented the lie that JonBenet fell asleep by the time they got home. Notice how the words vary in police interviews, as to the stage at which JonBenet fell asleep. Since it's hard to believe she fell so deeply asleep between the Stines and home, literally two turns of the car, they extended it to her probably being asleep during the visit to the Stines. As John would probably not have left JonBenet asleep in the car on her own, he had to remain outside too. That is where he got into difficulty with his JonBenet sleeping/zonked lie, and had to feign poor memory of the visit. He couldn't guarantee what the Stines had told police.
Tortoise, thanks for your post. To respond to both you and UkGuy's thoughts on this, you got me thinking further, Tortoise, and I think you're right! It was JR and PR who were lying about JB being "zonked" throughout the entire car journey home, and they couldn't have known exactly what the Stines would say to the police. They also obviously hadn't prepped BR on following their script at that point, either, as he must have been telling the truth about JB walking into the house herself when they arrived home.

Perhaps the odd word "zonked" was used by JR and PR, to underline firmly that JB was absolutely deeply asleep, and there was no way or any possibility whatsoever that she woke up or interacted with anyone once they left the party?

I'm just thinking, why did the Ramseys lie? To give the impression that BR couldn't have had any contact or interaction with JB at any point, after they arrived home. Thereby avoiding having to answer any difficult questions surrounding this. Much easier to say that JB was asleep the whole time, just as they instructed BR to say he was asleep all night, and saw and heard nothing! Except that BR wasn't aware of this script, and declared that JB was awake when they got home.

UkGuy, maybe looking at it this way, the Stines were also telling the truth, when they indicated that they saw all of the Ramseys as an "intact family" for the last time, before they went home? Perhaps they weren't aware of JR and PR's need for JB to be "zonked" either?

Or am I confusing myself, and looking at it the wrong way round?
 
Tortoise, thanks for your post. To respond to both you and UkGuy's thoughts on this, you got me thinking further, Tortoise, and I think you're right! It was JR and PR who were lying about JB being "zonked" throughout the entire car journey home, and they couldn't have known exactly what the Stines would say to the police. They also obviously hadn't prepped BR on following their script at that point, either, as he must have been telling the truth about JB walking into the house herself when they arrived home.

Perhaps the odd word "zonked" was used by JR and PR, to underline firmly that JB was absolutely deeply asleep, and there was no way or any possibility whatsoever that she woke up or interacted with anyone once they left the party?

I'm just thinking, why did the Ramseys lie? To give the impression that BR couldn't have had any contact or interaction with JB at any point, after they arrived home. Thereby avoiding having to answer any difficult questions surrounding this. Much easier to say that JB was asleep the whole time, just as they instructed BR to say he was asleep all night, and saw and heard nothing! Except that BR wasn't aware of this script, and declared that JB was awake when they got home.

UkGuy, maybe looking at it this way, the Stines were also telling the truth, when they indicated that they saw all of the Ramseys as an "intact family" for the last time, before they went home? Perhaps they weren't aware of JR and PR's need for JB to be "zonked" either?

Or am I confusing myself, and looking at it the wrong way round?

There is no wrong way, so be guided by what makes most sense to you.

This is what makes the most sense to me, without completely guessing that one of the Stines was involved in what happened. I don't believe the Ramseys would cover for a Stine, so the only scenario that is possible in my book is that if a Stine was there, they were only a witness to what happened and nothing more. I don't believe a Stine was there, given that they were leaving so early the next morning.

To me it is obvious that the story had to be that JonBenet was asleep when they entered the house and remained asleep until the others were in their own beds, to stop any questions about who in the family may have interacted with her last, if she was awake.

I would like to know at what point John changed his story from JonBenet being awake and reading to her, to JonBenet being asleep and the cops having got their notes wrong. I think that is the key to understanding this. I don't know at what point it was revealed to the family or the public, that there had been a sexual intrusion on JonBenet, but it could be relevant.
 
Tortoise, thanks for your post. To respond to both you and UkGuy's thoughts on this, you got me thinking further, Tortoise, and I think you're right! It was JR and PR who were lying about JB being "zonked" throughout the entire car journey home, and they couldn't have known exactly what the Stines would say to the police. They also obviously hadn't prepped BR on following their script at that point, either, as he must have been telling the truth about JB walking into the house herself when they arrived home.

Perhaps the odd word "zonked" was used by JR and PR, to underline firmly that JB was absolutely deeply asleep, and there was no way or any possibility whatsoever that she woke up or interacted with anyone once they left the party?

I'm just thinking, why did the Ramseys lie? To give the impression that BR couldn't have had any contact or interaction with JB at any point, after they arrived home. Thereby avoiding having to answer any difficult questions surrounding this. Much easier to say that JB was asleep the whole time, just as they instructed BR to say he was asleep all night, and saw and heard nothing! Except that BR wasn't aware of this script, and declared that JB was awake when they got home.

UkGuy, maybe looking at it this way, the Stines were also telling the truth, when they indicated that they saw all of the Ramseys as an "intact family" for the last time, before they went home? Perhaps they weren't aware of JR and PR's need for JB to be "zonked" either?

Or am I confusing myself, and looking at it the wrong way round?

BBM: No, you just assume what suits your ideas about the case, if they lead to a contradiction, then just tweak your theory to include your resolved contradiction, simple.

What the Stine's say, i.e. intact family sounds a lot like zonked talk. Yet it does imply Susan Stine saw all the R's in her house?
 
There is no wrong way, so be guided by what makes most sense to you.

This is what makes the most sense to me, without completely guessing that one of the Stines was involved in what happened. I don't believe the Ramseys would cover for a Stine, so the only scenario that is possible in my book is that if a Stine was there, they were only a witness to what happened and nothing more. I don't believe a Stine was there, given that they were leaving so early the next morning.

To me it is obvious that the story had to be that JonBenet was asleep when they entered the house and remained asleep until the others were in their own beds, to stop any questions about who in the family may have interacted with her last, if she was awake.

I would like to know at what point John changed his story from JonBenet being awake and reading to her, to JonBenet being asleep and the cops having got their notes wrong. I think that is the key to understanding this. I don't know at what point it was revealed to the family or the public, that there had been a sexual intrusion on JonBenet, but it could be relevant.

Tortoise,
What you say makes sense. With hindsight being an exact science it looks like JR was making it all up as he went along, one minute he is reading to JonBenet, next he carried her sleeping into the house and upstairs to bed, just as he invented all that stuff with Lou Smit.

.
 
Tortoise,
What you say makes sense. With hindsight being an exact science it looks like JR was making it all up as he went along, one minute he is reading to JonBenet, next he carried her sleeping into the house and upstairs to bed, just as he invented all that stuff with Lou Smit.

.

I think that was a misreading of what JR said. I remember this coming up once before on FFJ and we went back and re-read his interview and he was talking about going to bed and reading HIMSELF, not that he had read to JBR. I'd look for the specific bit, but I'm tired and am going to bed myself (yes, to read).
 
I think that was a misreading of what JR said. I remember this coming up once before on FFJ and we went back and re-read his interview and he was talking about going to bed and reading HIMSELF, not that he had read to JBR. I'd look for the specific bit, but I'm tired and am going to bed myself (yes, to read).
There's some pretty exciting reading material on the Kala Brown thread right here on WS! Wowzer!
 
There is no wrong way, so be guided by what makes most sense to you.

This is what makes the most sense to me, without completely guessing that one of the Stines was involved in what happened. I don't believe the Ramseys would cover for a Stine, so the only scenario that is possible in my book is that if a Stine was there, they were only a witness to what happened and nothing more. I don't believe a Stine was there, given that they were leaving so early the next morning.

To me it is obvious that the story had to be that JonBenet was asleep when they entered the house and remained asleep until the others were in their own beds, to stop any questions about who in the family may have interacted with her last, if she was awake.

I would like to know at what point John changed his story from JonBenet being awake and reading to her, to JonBenet being asleep and the cops having got their notes wrong. I think that is the key to understanding this. I don't know at what point it was revealed to the family or the public, that there had been a sexual intrusion on JonBenet, but it could be relevant.

their DA mole told them about the sexual assault right after the autopsy was performed grrrr
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Members online

Online statistics

Members online
171
Guests online
2,575
Total visitors
2,746

Forum statistics

Threads
603,401
Messages
18,155,863
Members
231,720
Latest member
bobcatbob
Back
Top