Wayne Millard Murder Trial - Dellen Millard Charged With Murder - #1

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Common Questions About Death Investigations

<snipped>
Who decides whether an autopsy is needed?
The coroner, often in consultation with a forensic pathologist, will decide if an autopsy is needed.

Common questions about death investigations | Ministry of Community Safety and Correctional Services

(More from the same link)
What is a death investigation?
“A death investigation is a process whereby a coroner or forensic pathologist seeks to understand how and why a person died. A coroner or forensic pathologist must answer five questions when investigating a death:

  • Who (identity of the deceased)
  • When (date of death)
  • Where (location of death)
  • How (medical cause of death)
  • By what means (natural causes, accident, homicide, suicide or undetermined)
Information may be obtained from several sources including, but not limited to family, co-workers, neighbours, doctors, hospital records, police and other emergency service workers. Contact with family is vital as they often have important information that can aid the investigation...”
 
I don't recall anything about them having retrieved the bullet, only that the bullet had been lodged in WM's brain... however in order to know that it was lodged in his brain, one would assume an autopsy would have to have made that discovery? So yes???? It would REALLY surprise me if an autopsy was NOT done in this case....... however, from the sense of would it really surprise me in *this* case, considering all of the other seeming inadequacies, I suppose that sadly, it would NOT surprise me? The retrieval of the bullet is another dimension of the whole autopsy thing - they would have had to retrieve the bullet in order to prove that it came from the gun found next to him, so it only makes sense that an autopsy had to have been done. moo.
You mean that you wouldn't be surprised if they just went in, got the bullet and then called it a day. We do know that the body went to the morgue. (Officer Lee testified that he followed the body back to the morgue.) I would be shocked if the Coroner was incompetent. I'm expecting to hear evidence about angle of entry etc when he testifies and the answer to the one big question- why hadn't they concluded their investigation.

Once DM was arrested for TB's murder and they started to investigate LB and WM-

BBM "However, after charges were laid in Bosma’s murder, the office of the Ontario chief coroner said the investigation into Wayne Millard’s death was “still ongoing.”

(It’s) open and has not yet concluded,” Cheryl Mahyr, the coroner’s issues manager, said in May."
No answers for lengthy delay in Dellen Millard probes | The Star
 
You mean that you wouldn't be surprised if they just went in, got the bullet and then called it a day. We do know that the body went to the morgue. (Officer Lee testified that he followed the body back to the morgue.) I would be shocked if the Coroner was incompetent. I'm expecting to hear evidence about angle of entry etc when he testifies and the answer to the one big question- why hadn't they concluded their investigation.

snipped
No answers for lengthy delay in Dellen Millard probes | The Star

If the death was ruled suicide by police, does the coroner have the right to hold body for full autopsy if he disagrees or simply wants to do a thorough job? I'm not familiar with who has what authorities. The body would be released to the family quickly, after the autopsy if one was perform, so the grieving (??) family could bury their loved one. DM would have been quick to have WM cremated as it would destroy evidence, especially if an autopsy was not performed.
The coroner would not have to agree with the police and this may be why they never signed off on the death. Hopefully we will get more details soon.
 
I am learning a lot about trials from all three of these trials. I only followed one other murder case before and it was in the U.S.
On another forum people with a lot more knowledge of trials from me are telling me what the crown has to do in order for DM to be found guilty beyond a reasonable doubt.
It is not enough to show motive or to show DM was at the house, it has to be shown that he was in the room and had the gun and shot the father and he planned it beforehand.

I hope the crown has some good evidence.
 
All along I have absolutely been assuming that an autopsy was done. Is this in question?? When I searched for any mention anywhere of an autopsy having been performed on WM, I come up empty-handed. Is it even possible that an autopsy was not done? I had thought an autopsy was always required in a sudden unexpected death, especially if it did not occur in a hospital. But if, upon brief look, it appears to be a suicide, and the only immediate family member is saying suicide, and I don't want an autopsy, is it then up to the coroner to decide whether to have one? I will be in total shock if an autopsy did not take place in this case.
I'm wondering this as well. We had a family friend pass a way unexpectedly a few years ago. Someone went to pick him up for work and he was just found in his apartment. Friends and coworkers were really hoping on an autopsy to find out what could have happened, but his immediate family opted to not. So I do believe it's up to the family when homicide is not suspected (or they at least have some influence). However, in WM's case, he had a gun shot wound. Therefore, it could go either way: an autopsy was necessary because of the concerning circumstances, or entirely not necessary, because they "knew" how he died.
 
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Wouldn't there need to be more proof that this particular gun was the one mentioned in texts? My gut is telling me someone spilled. ... for perhaps selfish reasons (he knew they had him, so he admitted to it, hoping for charge/sentence reductions). moo

Isn't it interesting that the particular gun used in WM's murder is an oldie? So simple to explain that WM owned guns in the past, but it was thought they had been given away.

Interesting too that according to the testimony from those on the scene so far, DM did not offer up that he had just given that same gun to his father for his birthday?

So many things to consider!
If I was LE, that would set off alarm bells for me. Did DM have a gun license? You obviously need one to legally purchase a gun.
 
A Possession and Acquisition License (PAL) is required to purchase or possess a firearm in Canada. Additional License and further education is required in order to purchase or possess a restricted firearm in Canada. Restricted firearms typically are handguns. Then there are illegal firearms in Canada which is anything the government deems illegal. The regular PAL covers long guns, i.e., shotguns and rifles. This is the simplified version of the Possession and Acquisition laws in Canada.
 
You mean that you wouldn't be surprised if they just went in, got the bullet and then called it a day. We do know that the body went to the morgue. (Officer Lee testified that he followed the body back to the morgue.) I would be shocked if the Coroner was incompetent. I'm expecting to hear evidence about angle of entry etc when he testifies and the answer to the one big question- why hadn't they concluded their investigation.

Once DM was arrested for TB's murder and they started to investigate LB and WM-

BBM "However, after charges were laid in Bosma’s murder, the office of the Ontario chief coroner said the investigation into Wayne Millard’s death was “still ongoing.”

(It’s) open and has not yet concluded,” Cheryl Mahyr, the coroner’s issues manager, said in May."
No answers for lengthy delay in Dellen Millard probes | The Star
No, what I'm saying is that I will be shocked out of my mind if no autopsy was performed in this case. I won't necessarily be *as* shocked if there are more inadequacies in this case that come to light during the trial.

Because members here are of varying opinions as to whether an autopsy was ever even performed on WM, I was trying to find info to enlighten me as to autopsy is the coroner's prerogative even in a sudden death occurring outside of hospital which is thought to be caused by suicide. I haven't been able to find anything which conclusively states clearly in layman's wording that an autopsy must be performed on all suicides, or on all sudden unexpected deaths occurring outside of hospital.

I was also trying to find evidence via MSM to confirm whether an autopsy was in fact performed on WM, but I was unable to find any mention of autopsy in this case. Normally in cases I follow, I will see something like, 'autopsy is scheduled for x-date', or 'an autopsy was performed on x-date which ruled that the death was a suicide', etc. In this particular case, I am unable to find mention of autopsy at all - which in turn, had me going there for awhile.

I have since reassured myself that an autopsy HAD to have been done, there are no two-ways about it, and I look very much forward to hearing the findings and why it was so quickly determined to be suicide.

Although the article quoted above says the investigation was still ongoing, there are other MSM mentions that the case may have been closed and then later reopened - meaning perhaps that at the time MSM asked the coroner's office about the case (which seems to be half a year later, after DM had been charged with TB's murder), it had already been reopened by then and was therefore at that time, still ongoing.

I don't want to call the coroner incompetent, *however*.... what should we call it and who was incompetent in this case? From the below quotes, it seems that due to the coroner's ruling that this death was a suicide, and only a mere day or two after the body was discovered, the police closed their investigation. If that means the incompetence-shoe fits, then so be it. Not everyone in a given line of work is of equal competence. Previously in this thread, members, including myself, have been amazed that more investigative work was not done by the police, however if by December 1st the coroner had ruled it a suicide, is it up to police to correct that expert's determination, or are they left with no option but to close the case? Or is it a joint effort, where, IF police had provided more details to the coroner, then the coroner may have looked at something differently, or more thoroughly?

"By Dec. 1, 2012, the coroner had concluded the death was a suicide, and police closed their investigation."
Dellen Millard facing 3rd murder trial — this time for his own father's death | CBC News

"In less than two days, on Dec. 1, he had concluded that the death was a suicide, and that, at least until police re-opened the case in the spring of 2013, was that."
Christie Blatchford: Millard murder ruled a suicide inside two days

"She could not say whether the case was reopened because of recent events or had never been closed."
Suspect in Tim Bosma’s death was always ‘a little different’ and did ‘odd stuff’ at private school, classmate says
 
Is there any discussion treads here discussing what (if you think DM was responsible) is believed DM was "going for" WM's death looking like, suicide or murder? I wouldn't think it advantageous to look like murder...?
 
Just created one!
My apologies that I still can't figure out how to transcribe twitter posts. Thanks to all who can!
 
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I should be able to post the Twitter feed all day today but if for any reason I have to step away, I'll let you all know. It looks like AC is there so far, and Mark Carcasole is on tour with the Andrea Horwath so he will not be. No other reporters have posted yet.

Adam Carter‏Verified account @AdamCarterCBC 21s21 seconds ago
We're now underway. The Crown has given an overview of this week. Ken Lockhart says we're currently well ahead of schedule. #Millard
 
Is there any discussion treads here discussing what (if you think DM was responsible) is believed DM was "going for" WM's death looking like, suicide or murder? I wouldn't think it advantageous to look like murder...?

From what we’ve heard so far, WM’s death “appeared” to be a suicide because he was shot with a weapon from within the home and he was the only person said to be in the residence at the time. If the death had been staged to look like a murder, an intruder would’ve taken the gun and a murder investigation would’ve immediately occurred to determine if robbery had also occurred. But why shoot a home owner sound asleep in bed?

I highly doubt DM would’ve wanted any questions asked because he would’ve come under the scope much sooner, especially if it was found he had unexplained hours near the home that same night.

Had not DM been arrested a few months later in the murder of TB, I doubt the deemed suicide of WM would’ve ever been re-examined. It’s rather unsettling to think about....how many others?
 
Adam Carter‏Verified account @AdamCarterCBC 2m2 minutes ago
The next witness is Dr. David Evans. #Millard

Adam Carter‏Verified account @AdamCarterCBC 18s18 seconds ago
He was the regional supervising coroner for Toronto West Region. #Millard

Adam Carter‏Verified account @AdamCarterCBC 1m1 minute ago
Before he was the regional coroner, he was an investigating coroner, and would go out to scenes. #Millard

Adam Carter‏Verified account @AdamCarterCBC 53s54 seconds ago
He says the coroner investigates any death that is "non-natural." #Millard
 
Adam Carter‏Verified account @AdamCarterCBC 2m2 minutes ago
He says there are five classifications of death in Ontario: natural (such as disease or disease process), an accident (an unforeseen event or circumstances) ... #Millard

Adam Carter‏Verified account @AdamCarterCBC 2m2 minutes ago
...suicide (which must meet intent and understanding on the part of the person who kills him or herself), homicide, and "undetermined." #Millard

Adam Carter‏Verified account @AdamCarterCBC 53s54 seconds ago
Evans says the classification is based on the "balance of probabilities." #Millard
 
Ontario forensic pathologists get expanded role in homicide investigations
The causes of suspicious deaths and homicides in Ontario will soon be determined by forensic pathologists rather than traditional coroners — but only in a small number of cases, the province announced Wednesday.

Community Safety Minister Madeleine Meilleur said the move is intended to avert errors in the criminal justice system because forensic pathologists are more highly trained than medical doctors doubling as coroners.

“The change is that the forensic pathologists will also be trained as coroners and will be called to the scenes of death,” Meilleur said in an interview Wednesday.

This article is from August, 2013. As there’s always a reason for governments to change their processes, it would seem the Province of Ontario came to realize Forensic Pathologists should sometimes become involved in sudden deaths. A Coroner, a physician, obviously isn’t as skilled as a Forensic Pathologist in recognizing what might be a murder, especially in the event of a staged crime scene.
 
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