Wayne Millard Murder Trial - Dellen Millard Charged With Murder - #1

[Velma]

Adam Carter‏Verified account @AdamCarterCBC 1m1 minute ago
Campbell now answering questions about Millard's drinking problem. "He said if anybody could help him or take him out of it with encouragement, it was me," Campbell said. #Millard

Mark Carcasole‏Verified account @MarkCarcGlobal 1m1 minute ago
Pillay reads transcript from Campbell’s later statement to police. Police ask Campbell about “walls” Wayne #Millard put up that she’d apparently mentioned earlier. Quotes conversation between Campbell and investigator. Campbell telling cop she didn’t pry, let WM tell her things

Lisa Hepfner‏ @LisaHepfnerCHCH 50s51 seconds ago
Wayne told Campbell he had a drinking problem. He thought she could help. "He said if anybody could help him or take him out of it with encouragement, it was me." She says Wayne talked to her with ease. "I don't know how else to put it." #Millard

 

[Velma]

Adam Carter‏Verified account @AdamCarterCBC 2m2 minutes ago
"He talked to me with ease, I don't know how else to put it," Campbell said. She adds that "more in the beginning of their conversations" on the phone, he was drinking. She said he was "tight" -- which essentially means drunk. Pillay says he had to google the expression. #Millard

Michele Mandel‏Verified account @MandelSun 2m2 minutes ago
She agrees Wayne #Millard told her he had a serious drinking problem. But says he wasn’t slurring his words in their last phone convo on day of his death

Lisa Hepfner‏ @LisaHepfnerCHCH 2m2 minutes ago
Sometimes Wayne #Millard was "tight" on the phone while talking to her. Ravin Pillay had to look that word up. "That's an old one," she laughs. It means drunk.

Mark Carcasole‏Verified account @MarkCarcGlobal 2m2 minutes ago
Campbell admits she described Wayne #Millard as “tight” during some of their early phone conversations. “Tight” is apparently an old way of saying “drunk.”

 

[Velma]

Adam Carter‏Verified account @AdamCarterCBC 2m2 minutes ago
Campbell says Millard would copy her on emails from the business, and let her know what was being done. But she agrees she doesn't know the details of the business. #Millard

Mark Carcasole‏Verified account @MarkCarcGlobal 54s55 seconds ago
Campbell agrees with Pillay that she doesn’t know much about aviation. Says Wayne #Millard would describe function and purpose of various things. Didn’t know anything about MillardAir financials “other than what he related to me.”

Adam Carter‏Verified account @AdamCarterCBC 35s36 seconds ago
Pillay says that she didn't know the financial state of the business, or Millard himself. "I didn't ever look at the financial statements, no," Campbell responds. #Millard

Lisa Hepfner‏ @LisaHepfnerCHCH 2m2 minutes ago
Janet Campbell didn't look at financial statements for Millardair. She only knew what Wayne #Millard told her. He was stressed about loans, because his father had never taken out loans. She reminded him that his father lived in a different financial era.

Adam Carter‏Verified account @AdamCarterCBC 1m1 minute ago
"He did tell you he was experiencing a great deal of stress from taking out loans, right?" Pillay asks. "He didn't like taking out loans," she says. #Millard

 

[Velma]

Mark Carcasole‏Verified account @MarkCarcGlobal 1m1 minute ago
Campbell says Wayne #Millard expressed stress over having to take out some loans. “He didn’t like taking out loans.” She says WM told her his dad, Carl, would’ve never taken out a loan. She says WM might’ve told her amounts at some point but she can’t remember now.

Lisa Hepfner‏ @LisaHepfnerCHCH 56s57 seconds ago
"He didn't like taking loans," Campbell says, but doesn't seem to think Wayne #Millard was feeling "a great deal of stress about that." He did speak about the cost of the fall arrest system. You'd probably be upset about that cost too, she laughs gently at Pillay.

Adam Carter‏Verified account @AdamCarterCBC 34s35 seconds ago
Pillay says in one of her statements to police, Campbell said the business was "sucking the life right out of" Wayne. Campbell says: "I was trying to reason why this could happen, and this is the only thing I could come up with. I was grasping at straws." #Millard

Mark Carcasole‏Verified account @MarkCarcGlobal 33s34 seconds ago
Pillay notes to Campbell she told police “the business was sucking the life right out of Wayne (#Millard).” She admits she said that but says she was grasping at straws, upset over his apparent suicide. Only answer she could find for it.

Lisa Hepfner‏ @LisaHepfnerCHCH 24s25 seconds ago
"The business was sucking life right out of him," she apparently told police. She says now it was an explanation for an apparent #Millard suicide. "I felt like I had been hit by a Mac truck. I was trying to reason why this happened. It was grasping at straws."

 

[Velma]

Lisa Hepfner‏ @LisaHepfnerCHCH 40s40 seconds ago
Business stress was the only explanation she could come up with. She was under a lot of stress after #Millard's apparent suicide.

Adam Carter‏Verified account @AdamCarterCBC 30s31 seconds ago
On May 18, 2013 Campbell called a detective on the case, Pillay says, and the detective's notes say she rambled on, and was going to the doctor to get meds to relax. Campbell says she doesn't remember that, but says she does have back issues. #Millard

Mark Carcasole‏Verified account @MarkCarcGlobal 49s49 seconds ago
Pillay, reading notes from police, May 18, 2013, says Campbell called investigator and “advised she rambled on yesterday. May have confused some dates and times and some info” and was going to get meds to relax. Campbell says she can’t remember but they were likely for back probs

Adam Carter‏Verified account @AdamCarterCBC 20s20 seconds ago
"You've confused dates and times and some information regarding what you've told police, fair?" Pillay asks. Campbell says if she did, it was because of stress. #Millard

Lisa Hepfner‏ @LisaHepfnerCHCH 20s20 seconds ago
She doesn't remember calling the officer after to say she may have confused some dates and times as she rambled on during police interview. Pillay keeps asking but she doesn't remember the conversation. #Millard

 

[Velma]

Adam Carter‏Verified account @AdamCarterCBC 2m2 minutes ago
Pillay is suggesting Wayne Millard didn't leave anything at her place, but he just mentioned he would. Campbell says that's wrong, he did leave things there. #Millard

Michele Mandel‏Verified account @MandelSun 2m2 minutes ago
She admitted she told police “business was sucking life right out of him” but says she was “grasping at straws” in trying to understand why Wayne #Millard would’ve committed suicide

Mark Carcasole‏Verified account @MarkCarcGlobal 1m1 minute ago
Earlier Campbell testified that Wayne #Millard left some items at her place for convenience. Pillay suggests he told her he intended to leave something there. “No he didn’t” replies Campbell.

Lisa Hepfner‏ @LisaHepfnerCHCH 1m1 minute ago
Pillay is suggesting Wayne #Millard didn't leave anything at Campbell's house because he only stayed there once and didn't ask to stay over until he was already at her house. Pillay thinks Millard was only planning to bring things to leave at her house.

Adam Carter‏Verified account @AdamCarterCBC 10s10 seconds ago
Pillay says that since Wayne died "a lot has happened" with Dellen. She says she's been following the news "to a point." "I'll be honest with you, I try to avoid it," Campbell says. #Millard

 

[Velma]

Lisa Hepfner‏ @LisaHepfnerCHCH 1m1 minute ago
Since Wayne's death a lot has happened with his son Dellen #Millard. She's following the proceedings? "I've been trying to avoid it," she says. "Very negative media reports," Pillay says. "Obviously," she replies.

Mark Carcasole‏Verified account @MarkCarcGlobal 1m1 minute ago
Pillay asks Campbell how exposed she was at the time to media reports of Dellen #Millard’s arrest. Campbell says she tried to stay away from them but did hear some things. “I did not want to look.”

Adam Carter‏Verified account @AdamCarterCBC 2m2 minutes ago
Pillay says she's read some articles about Millard's former trials. "I come from an old school, I'm not very much for computers ... and I didn't want to look. I didn't want to look ... we have enough negativity in life," Campbell says. #Millard

Lisa Hepfner‏ @LisaHepfnerCHCH 1m1 minute ago
"I did not want to look (at media about Dellen). We have enough negativity in life," Campbell says. She knew and cared for Wayne #Millard and that drove her to read some of what was happening with his son. Break now to 1:45pm

Adam Carter‏Verified account @AdamCarterCBC 1m1 minute ago
We're now taking the lunch recess a little early. We'll be back at 1:45 p.m. #Millard

Mark Carcasole‏Verified account @MarkCarcGlobal 58s59 seconds ago
Pillay calls for another break to address technical difficulties from earlier. Court takes early lunch break. Back at 1:45. #Millard

I'll be back to continue at 1:45 as well.

 

[Kamille]

So LE first interviewed her in May 2013 after DM's arrest for the TB case. They did not speak to her back in Nov 2012 while investigating WM's death. In May 2013 she knew of DM's arrest and it appears that she was trying to be helpful to the family by trying to come up with reasons why WM might have committed suicide. I'm sure at the time she was floored to think that LE thought DM might have killed his father based on his arrest in the TB case. She's obviously had time to reflect after all of DM's charges and convictions and she now firmly believes that WM did not commit suicide after all. Makes sense to me. I guess Pillay is trying to discredit her for changing her mind on that based on media reports. Pretty sure everyone who knew WM changed their mind about it for the same reason.

MOO

 

[Alice Ramnit]

I am certainly not discrediting JC but it is curious to me that she would be SO nervous and a 'train wreck' 6 months after his death by which time I would have imagined that she would have had time to 'digest' the information, so to speak. I suppose that once she heard DM had been arrested it must have brought a lot of new questions to her mind?

 

[deugirtni]

JC testified that DM told her about WM's "suicide". I would assume that at some point DM answered her phone calls to the house looking for WM. So are we to understand that LE didn't contact her at the time as the last known person he was talking to?

It seems TPS did not do a thing, other than to accept DM and his words at face value, no questions asked. Wow.

 

[MorningStar22]

I am certainly not discrediting JC but it is curious to me that she would be SO nervous and a 'train wreck' 6 months after his death by which time I would have imagined that she would have had time to 'digest' the information, so to speak. I suppose that once she heard DM had been arrested it must have brought a lot of new questions to her mind?

And possibly TPS explained they were suspecting foul play in his death - that's how I interpret her reaction. She's reeling from the news that it may not be suicide and trying to protect the family in a way, and explain it away... IMO of course.

 

[Velma]

Adam Carter‏Verified account @AdamCarterCBC 47s48 seconds ago
Court is back in session. Ravin Pillay is continuing his cross examination. #Millard

Mark Carcasole‏Verified account @MarkCarcGlobal 24s25 seconds ago
Court has now resumed in #Millard trial.

 

[Velma]

Adam Carter‏Verified account @AdamCarterCBC 32s33 seconds ago
She says Millard was not a sad person with her. #Millard

Adam Carter‏Verified account @AdamCarterCBC 12s13 seconds ago
Pillay is now playing a clip from her statement to police on May 16, 2013. #Millard

Lisa Hepfner‏ @LisaHepfnerCHCH 35s35 seconds ago
We are back. Janet Campbell says Wayne #Millard wasn't depressed with her. She says she's trying to put his depression in context. #Millard's lawyer now believes he has audio for the June 2016 police interview he wants to play.

Adam Carter‏Verified account @AdamCarterCBC 8s9 seconds ago
The officer questioning her asks if Millard suffered from depression. Campbell says: "I think he did. I think he had depression. but I saw him improving." #Millard

Lisa Hepfner‏ @LisaHepfnerCHCH 15s16 seconds ago
Sorry that's May 2013 that she spoke to police. She's in a room with a police officer and another woman taking notes. She's being asked about Wayne's depression. She says Wayne's a recluse, that's how he dealt with depression. #Millard

 

[Velma]

Mark Carcasole‏Verified account @MarkCarcGlobal 16s16 seconds ago
Pillay back on topic of Wayne #Millard’s emotional state. Campbell denied he was sufferin clinical depression. Pillay now turns to play video from her police statement on May 26, 2013 that wouldn’t work earlier.

Mark Carcasole‏Verified account @MarkCarcGlobal 34s35 seconds ago
Hard to hear, but in video, asked if she knew whether Wayne #Millard suffered from depression Campbell nods and tells officers: “I think he did...But I saw him improving....He was a recluse in essence, and I think that was a comfort zone for him.”

Adam Carter‏Verified account @AdamCarterCBC 33s34 seconds ago
She says she meant he had depression in a way that "a lot of people go through." Campbell says: "I wasn't meaning he was in a clinical depression." #Millard

Lisa Hepfner‏ @LisaHepfnerCHCH 18s19 seconds ago
She told police Wayne #Millard had depression but that he seemed to be improving. She agrees that's what she said but she doesn't think it differs from her opinion now. She's not sure she used the right words in the interview.

 

[Velma]

Mark Carcasole‏Verified account @MarkCarcGlobal 34s35 seconds ago
Campbell says she meant that Wayne #Millard had general depression “like everybody else,” due to stress. Pillay points out she doesn’t say that in the video. Campbell says she was stressed out, didn’t choose the best words.

Adam Carter‏Verified account @AdamCarterCBC 22s23 seconds ago
"You do not say he had ups and downs like everyone else" Pillay now saying, animatedly. His voice is rising. This is the most forceful I've seen him with a witness. "I was under a lot of stress at that point in time," Campbell says. #Millard

Lisa Hepfner‏ @LisaHepfnerCHCH 34s35 seconds ago
Pillay is now grilling her on the distinctions. She doesn't think she meant that Wayne was clinically depressed. "I was under a lot of stress at that moment in time." Pillay suggests that her words express exactly how she felt about Wayne #Millard.

Adam Carter‏Verified account @AdamCarterCBC 27s28 seconds ago
Campbell says if she was relaxed and had time to think things through, she wouldn't have said those words. #Millard

Mark Carcasole‏Verified account @MarkCarcGlobal 22s23 seconds ago
“If I wasn’t under the stress of being interview and after his death...I certainly would not have expressed it in those words,” says Campbell. She says her words to police are “true, but it’s how you define it.” #Millard

Lisa Hepfner‏ @LisaHepfnerCHCH 30s30 seconds ago
If she had been relaxed and had had time to think about her words she wouldn't have worded things that way, she says. "It was true, but how are you going to define that?" Wayne #Millard called himself a recluse she says.

 

[Velma]

Adam Carter‏Verified account @AdamCarterCBC 38s39 seconds ago
"He never was a social butterfly. Let me put it that way," Campbell says. #Millard

Mark Carcasole‏Verified account @MarkCarcGlobal 13s14 seconds ago
“He never was a social butterfly,” says Campbell of Wayne #Millard.

Lisa Hepfner‏ @LisaHepfnerCHCH 33s34 seconds ago
Pillay asks to make the video interview an exhibit. Judge denies request. That means we cannot get copies for broadcast @CHCHNews #Millard

Mark Carcasole‏Verified account @MarkCarcGlobal 13s14 seconds ago
Pillay asks Campbell if she told police “Wayne (#Millard) did not take care of himself.” Campbell agrees but says she meant it in the sense bag most men don’t take care of their health the way women do.

Adam Carter‏Verified account @AdamCarterCBC 43s43 seconds ago
Pillay says Campbell made statements that Millard wasn't taking care of himself. "I said a doctor would tell you most men don't," she says. "They don't seem to have the same attitude toward health as women do." She also says he was overweight and not physically active. #Millard

Mark Carcasole‏Verified account @MarkCarcGlobal 1m1 minute ago
Pillay concludes his cross examination of Campbell. She is free to leave. #Millard

Adam Carter‏Verified account @AdamCarterCBC 1m1 minute ago
Pillay asks when Millard's birthday was. She says it was "Halloween Eve" -- Oct. 30. That's all his questions. No reexamination. She's done. #Millard

marianne boucher‏ @CityCourtsTO 1m1 minute ago
Lawyer for Dellen Millard now playing a 2013 police interview with Janet Campbell. She is asked if Wayne was depressed. Campbell “l think he did” have depression. Campbell clarifies today that Wayne appeared to be much happier as time went by.

Adam Carter‏Verified account @AdamCarterCBC 1m1 minute ago
The next witness is Bill Smith. #Millard

Lisa Hepfner‏ @LisaHepfnerCHCH 1m1 minute ago
Wayne #Millard was overweight and not physically active, Campbell recalls. When she took his blood pressure it was normal. When was Wayne's birthday? "It was halloweeny, she laughs. That's what he called it." It was Oct. 30. She is finished her testimony

Mark Carcasole‏Verified account @MarkCarcGlobal 42s43 seconds ago
Next witness: Bill Smith. Toronto Paramedic. #Millard

Adam Carter‏Verified account @AdamCarterCBC 49s50 seconds ago
Smith works with Toronto EMS. #Millard

 

[Velma]

Lisa Hepfner‏ @LisaHepfnerCHCH 37s38 seconds ago
William Smith is the next witness. He's in Toronto paramedic uniform. Has been in the job for 15 years. #Millard

Adam Carter‏Verified account @AdamCarterCBC 31s32 seconds ago
He's been a paramedic for 15 years. #Millard

Mark Carcasole‏Verified account @MarkCarcGlobal 11s12 seconds ago
Smith tells court he’s been a Toronto paramedic for 15 years. Crown asks him about Nov 29, 2012. Smith says that night he and a partner were called to Wayne #Millard’s residence.

Adam Carter‏Verified account @AdamCarterCBC 5s6 seconds ago
Cameron is asking him about Nov. 29, 2012. He attended the emergency call about Millard's death. #Millard

Lisa Hepfner‏ @LisaHepfnerCHCH 27s28 seconds ago
Nov 29, 2012, Smith was called to Wayne #Millard's house with a partner. He was the attending paramedic and his partner was the ambulance driver for that call; they would alternate between roles.

 

[deugirtni]

I am certainly not discrediting JC but it is curious to me that she would be SO nervous and a 'train wreck' 6 months after his death by which time I would have imagined that she would have had time to 'digest' the information, so to speak. I suppose that once she heard DM had been arrested it must have brought a lot of new questions to her mind?

If we can imagine for a moment, what this may have been like to have been in JC's shoes at the time...

There they were, after having lived out most of their lives apart, reconnecting in their 70s in January 2012.. they had become fabulous 'phone-friends', talking for hours on end.. and then reconnecting in 'real life' some time in November 2012 - which quickly grew into 4 meetings, one of which was a 'sleep-over', and WM telling her he loved her and adored her.

He apparently had a big surprise gift planned for her fast approaching birthday.. they talked for hours into the night, as usual, until 3am or so.. and then... nothing. She attempted to email his son, and got no reply. Then he tells her the horrible news via email, instead of even attempting to at least call, let lone tell her in person, that her new-found love interest had taken his own life that very same night.

I can't imagine the grief that loved ones are left with following a suicide, and I hope to never know. She likely would have been replaying every little thing that was ever said.. looking for clues that she may have missed, conjuring reasons in her mind as to what possibly could have affected him to those black depths.. and then half a year later, perhaps when she's finally starting to come to terms with her loss, out of the blue... police are finally asking her about his demeanor at the time of his death.

Suddenly, perhaps everything started snapping into place for her. I think we'd all be 'train wrecks' after going through 6 months of grief, questioning, seeking answers, and then finding out that perhaps there was more to it afterall, and not only 'more', but the worst imaginable thing?

jmo

 

[Velma]

Mark Carcasole‏Verified account @MarkCarcGlobal 1m1 minute ago
Smith was the paramedic who attended to Wayne #Millard. Crown shows him his incident report from the call. Smith confirms it’s his writing. “Prepared about a year after the incident...Was asked for by (superiors).”

Mark Carcasole‏Verified account @MarkCarcGlobal 47s48 seconds ago
Smith wrote in the report that he didn’t recall the call aside from the immediate notes made at the time of the call. #Millard

Mark Carcasole‏Verified account @MarkCarcGlobal 2m2 minutes ago
Crown asks to allow Smith to refresh his memory using his report during his testimony. Asked if he has any memory of the call, he responds “very little.” #Millard

Adam Carter‏Verified account @AdamCarterCBC 2m2 minutes ago
Smith says he has "very very little" independent recollection of the incident itself, but is referring to an incident report to refresh his memory on it. #Millard

Lisa Hepfner‏ @LisaHepfnerCHCH 1m1 minute ago
Paramedic says he has very little actual memory of attending the scene of Wayne #Millard's death at 5 Maple Gate court in Toronto. The report he's checking was prepared a year later. What he recalls is going to a house, a man brought them in & said he'd found his father dead.

Mark Carcasole‏Verified account @MarkCarcGlobal 36s37 seconds ago
Asked what he specifically remembers, Smith tells court he remembers “going to a house, a male brought us to the house...he found his father dead. I remember a lot of plane memorabilia, and the patient was in bed.” #Millard

 

[Velma]

Adam Carter‏Verified account @AdamCarterCBC 2m2 minutes ago
Smith says "I remember going to a house. A male brought us into the house. Told us what had happened, found his father dead ... I remember a lot of plane memorabilia." Says he also spoke with Millard's mother, Madeleine. #Millard

Lisa Hepfner‏ @LisaHepfnerCHCH 2m2 minutes ago
"I remember a lot of planes, plane memorabilia." Wayne #Millard was in the bed. Smith remembers talking to Dellen #Millard's mother after she arrived. He didn't try to revive Millard. "He was beyond assistance."

Mark Carcasole‏Verified account @MarkCarcGlobal 2m2 minutes ago
Smith says he didn’t perform any resuscitation on Wayne #Millard. Signs showed he was “beyond assistance.” Already dead.

Adam Carter‏Verified account @AdamCarterCBC 2m2 minutes ago
Smith says he didn't provide any CPR or lifesaving procedures because Wayne Millard was beyond assistance by that point. #Millard

Adam Carter‏Verified account @AdamCarterCBC 59s59 seconds ago
He says police arrived after EMS did. #Millard

Mark Carcasole‏Verified account @MarkCarcGlobal 1m1 minute ago
Smith says police arrived after EMS. #Millard

Lisa Hepfner‏ @LisaHepfnerCHCH 50s50 seconds ago
Smith remembers Dellen #Millard telling him he hadn't been able to get hold of his father for a few days so he went over and then found him dead in bed.

Adam Carter‏Verified account @AdamCarterCBC 48s48 seconds ago
"He said that he had tried to get a hold of his father for I think for a few days, and he came over because he couldn't get a hold of him. He found him dead and in bed, and called us," Smith says, about Millard. #Millard

Mark Carcasole‏Verified account @MarkCarcGlobal 45s45 seconds ago
Smith recalls asking the son of the victim what happened. Says he was told the man couldn’t reach his dad for a few days, came to home and found him dead in bed and called emergency personnel. #Millard