weekend discussion: discuss the trial here #141

[LinasK]

A Psychologist goes to Medical School, gets an MD, then specializes in Psychology. They "diagnose" the patients, and determine the medical treatment, ie appropriate medications. They are Physicians. They can write prescriptions, hospitalize patients etc. There are also PHD's, who are also called "Dr. and have a doctorate in psychology. As part of treatment, a Psychologist may recommend the patient see a "therapist" as well. Think talk therapy.

A Psychotherapist, requires a Master's degree, and specific licensing per the State requirements where they practice. They are "counselors" who generally do individual or family therapy, and some specialize in something, like LV considers herself a "specialist" so to speak, in Domestic Violence. Some of her credentials are questionable to me, but I do not live in California, and things may be more lax there.

I think you meant Psychiatrist, not Psychologist.

 

[Juli]

The Stranger Beside Me (48 hours)

JM put a man behind bars (54 years) for the murder of his girlfriend - no weapon or body was ever found.

Hmm...I'm trying to provide a link only, but the video keeps popping up. If you click on "The Stranger Beside Me - 48 Hours - CBS News" it will take you to the video.

The Stranger Beside Me - 48 Hours - CBS News

 

[Dr. Know?]

I think he was expecting her, for the following reasons:

1. They'd had a number of recent conversations, two very long (and probably sexy) ones, lasting a total of 59 minutes around the same time of night (3 am) they both were still up, as in the May 10 recording.
2. Not only did he call her twice, from his phone, in the 3 am hour on June 2, but she called him again just moments after hanging up from talking an hour. That conversation lasted another 3 minutes.
3. She called him again twice that afternoon, each call lasting several minutes according to this timeline: http://www.hlntv.com/slideshow/2013/02/11/jodi-arias-trial-tragic-roadtrip

After driving all day/night, why wouldn't she come in either the front door or the back sliding door, which opens onto the kitchen? His house didn't actually have a doggie door, just a sliding glass door off the kitchen that he probably left cracked open for Napoleon. [Tawni Dilly took photos of nearly every inch of that house, inside and out, including the garage.] A virtual tour of the same model house, with a reversed floor plan, is here: http://vt.realbiz360.com/Listing-1287339.html

I'm not understanding why she would stand out there for hours? If you've ever driven all day and night, you know how exhausting it is. She also likely prided herself on being able to get to him again--with sex. So I don't see her slinking around outside but coming right in.

In the phone conversation of May 10, he says at the 28:30 mark, "Aren't you glad we started f*cking?" "What?" she asks, pretending not to hear. He repeats, "I said, 'Aren't you glad that we started f*cking?'"

No matter how enraged he was at her that he ranted at her for 16 pages a week earlier, the fact is that they had two very long (and likely sexy) conversations between 3 and 4 am on June 2. An hour's worth. Calls placed by TA. It doesn't take an hour (and two phone calls) to tell someone to stay out of your life. Phone sex can take that long, however.

History is king, as my husband likes to say when he's diagnosing a patient (he's a physician), and in this case the history of JA and TA are that:

- she would continually drive him nuts :rocker:
- they'd fight :furious:
- he'd go back to engaging with her :seeya:

Even taking a trip together to two states three months after he told the Hiatts, "If I don't show up for dinner some Sunday..." Sending her flirty texts (and asking for a naughty photo) two weeks after texting her on April 6 not to contact him again.

He even talked about coming to visit her in Yreka! He brings it up, saying he's looking foward to their little forest adventure (in Green Horn). He says that whatever else he does on that trip, "You are number one."

Perhaps because he feared what she might do if he cut things off altogether or just because he's male and males compartmentalize, but he did engage with her again; that photo of her with her rear in the air and a tootsie roll in her hoo-ha was, tragically, the last photo TA ever took. :what:

Here's more of the CNN transcript of that tape. I have a feeling most people commenting that he would never [fill in the blank] haven't listened to the hour-plus tape, in his own words:

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1302/18/ng.01.html

In the words of former TA girlfriend Lisa Andrews:

"The first time she broke up with Alexander, Diadoni said she believed he was cheating on her with Arias. A former roommate of his told Diadoni's sister he was cheating, and she shared the information with Diadoni, she testified.

"Following the breakup, Alexander emailed and texted Diadoni, and they got back together when she felt she could trust him again, she testified. However, they again broke up, Diadoni said, because she felt Alexander was pressuring her to get married and she did not feel ready.

Diadoni testified she never had sexual intercourse with Alexander. Willmott then questioned Diadoni about an email she sent to Alexander on Sept. 23, 2007.

"In the email, Diadoni told Alexander she did not want him to text or email her anymore. It says when they were together, they would make out "for too long" and that Diadoni felt Alexander wanted her just for her body. She felt Alexander had a lot of sexual tension, which made her feel used and dirty, the email says.

"Diadoni wrote in the lengthy email that she had asked Alexander not to "grab her butt," especially in public, but she did not feel he was really listening to her. She said she also asked him not to talk about sex so much "but he did anyway," and she did not feel like he cared how she felt.

"Alexander, according to Diadoni's email, asked for compliments often and did not share the same values that she embraced. She also said he overreacted a lot.

"Diadoni testified that she later discussed the email with Alexander, who said he wanted to show Diadoni that he cared about her and to address the issues in the email. Diadoni said Wednesday that she had written the email in anger, and that the couple soon felt the issues were resolved and began dating a third time."

Sound familiar? He liked sexy talk, he was still engaging with JA, they [he and Lisa] argued but made up and resumed dating.

I don't believe he was happy to have her there, because they didn't take as many still photos as he'd talked about, and he was obviously doing housework rather than visiting with her. He'd assembled the floor cleaner and had moved the furniture off the floor. But I do believe he knew she was coming. But what do I know, just guessing like everyone else. :cow:

Hello AS, not meaning to disagree but this is how I am feeling about Travis' death.

His 16 pages telling her off on May 26th, followed by her grandpa's gun being stolen May 28th, which happens to be the same type as used in the murder of Travis & every other thing proven by JM, makes that 59 minute phone call on June 2nd even more fuel for JA. That conversation could have ended with a harsh no to JA or complete distancing towards her. I don't think it was phone sex that time. Travis was angry with JA but he didn't go after her, she came to him undercover within a day. She was filled with rage & planned poorly most of it. Reciepts and all. jmo

:seeya: aka Hi

 

[atthelake]

Goodnight everyone! And good morning to the next shift getting up right now.


It is Monday Monday Monday! not often we wanted to be Monday! It will be a Juanderful day


Sent from my SCH-S720C using Tapatalk 2

 

[Juli]

I'm sure this has been discussed and I missed it. Does anybody know why JA purchased an airline ticket through Priceline on the same day she was making all those other MC charges? I don't remember JM asking her about that. I'm really curious - What location is on that airline ticket?

 

[gwenabob]

After driving all day/night, why wouldn't she come in either the front door or the back sliding door, which opens onto the kitchen? His house didn't actually have a doggie door, just a sliding glass door off the kitchen that he probably left cracked open for Napoleon. [Tawni Dilly took photos of nearly every inch of that house, inside and out, including the garage.] A virtual tour of the same model house, with a reversed floor plan, is here: http://vt.realbiz360.com/Listing-1287339.html

Respectfully snipped for space, bbm.

I do not think he had a built in doggy door. I think it was a removable insert along the lines of this one:

http://www.thepetdoorstore.com/

 

[Allyne Smithe]

I think you meant Psychiatrist, not Psychologist.

A [Psychiatrist] goes to Medical School, gets an MD, then specializes in Psychology. They "diagnose" the patients, and determine the medical treatment, ie appropriate medications. They are Physicians. They can write prescriptions, hospitalize patients etc. There are also PHD's, who are also called "Dr. and have a doctorate in psychology. As part of treatment, a Psychologist may recommend the patient see a "therapist" as well. Think talk therapy.

A Psychotherapist, requires a Master's degree, and specific licensing per the State requirements where they practice. They are "counselors" who generally do individual or family therapy, and some specialize in something, like LV considers herself a "specialist" so to speak, in Domestic Violence. Some of her credentials are questionable to me, but I do not live in California, and things may be more lax there.

California was the last state to license mental health professionals, signed by Gov. Schwarzenegger in October 2009, effective 2010. Before that, anyone could work as a mental health professional and bill insurance companies.

Psychiatrists tend to be...different. I remember when Walt Disney was still alive and TIME magazine reported that a Long Beach organization, Lambda, contracted to rent out Disneyland after hours for a private party. After discovering Lambda was a gay organization, Disneyland tried to cancel. Lambda threatened to sue, saying they held a valid contract.

Shortly afterwards TIME had a follow-up story. Disney did allow the Lambda group to rent out the park. A reporter queried the employees how the evening went. "They were fine," one cast member replied, "a few held hands but they were just like anybody else. Now if you want to see weird people, you should have seen when the Psychiatric Association rented out the park last year. Now they were weird."

 

[Allyne Smithe]

Hello AS, not meaning to disagree but this is how I am feeling about Travis' death.

His 16 pages telling her off on May 26th, followed by her grandpa's gun being stolen May 28th, which happens to be the same type as used in the murder of Travis & every other thing proven by JM, makes that 59 minute phone call on June 2nd even more fuel for JA. That conversation could have ended with a harsh no to JA or complete distancing towards her. I don't think it was phone sex that time. Travis was angry with JA but he didn't go after her, she came to him undercover within a day. She was filled with rage & planned poorly most of it. Reciepts and all. jmo

:seeya: aka Hi

Interesting theory, thanks, and I certainly agree about her rage. He doesn't look comfortable in ANY of the photos taken that day, so I'm with you there. What do you think was going through his mind when he photographed her pink parts? Or do you not believe he took those six photos of JA and allowed her to take two of him?

 

[kkdj]

And my guess is that she has built herself up in her own mind and the people around her patting herself on the back to the point where she just felt she knew it all.

VERY bad position to put yourself in.

At first I liked her. She seemed warm and grandmotherly. It drew an instant liking and trust. But the minute she tried to deceive us I got it! Turn off the sound and just watch her. Something is very distasteful going on there. And creepy.
Jmo

 

[Juli]

Mimi Hall said that he had a doggie door and that JA crawled through it.

I understand why people get them installed, but I wouldn't feel comfortable having one. Nothing like an open invitation for burglars. The only way I'd consider having one installed is if it was for a little dog and the opening was too small for even a child to get through.

 

[Allyne Smithe]

Mimi Hall said that he had a doggie door and that JA crawled through it.

I understand why people get them installed, but I wouldn't feel comfortable having one. Nothing like an open invitation for burglars. The only way I'd consider having one installed is if it was for a little dog and the opening was too small for even a child to get through.

Mimi had only been on a couple of dates with him and just related what she heard from other friends. She never used the word 'crawl.' Here is what Detective Flores wrote after interviewing Mimi:

"I asked about Travis' former girlfriend, Jodi Arias. She didn't know too much about Jodi, other than what she learned tonight. She heard that she was kind of obsessive and that she had manipulated Travis' facebook account. She also mentioned hearing that Jodi would get into the house through the doggie door without being invited. She described Jodi as a "stalker ex-girlfriend." She had moved here from California to be near him. Travis had actually baptized Jodi into the LDS church. Marie said she was actually kind of worried about her, because she was obsessive. She had also heard that Jodi had stolen some of his personal journals and they [sic] had recently taken some pages of his new book he was writing. She knew Travis spoke to Jodi sometime last week. Travis called Jodi, because he caught her hacking into one of his email or Facebook accounts and confronter her about it. Other than this she knew very little about Jodi Arias."

 

[Rocco]

At first I liked her. She seemed warm and grandmotherly. It drew an instant liking and trust. But the minute she tried to deceive us I got it! Turn off the sound and just watch her. Something is very distasteful going on there. And creepy.
Jmo

I felt the exact same way at first. Plus, to me she seemed knowledgable and experienced in her field. Then the cross started and it all went down hill. It took her 1/2 an hour and 5 side bars to answer a yes/no question, she was disrespectful to the prosecutor and the court, and she made herself look ignorant. I've watched several trials and I can't think of a witness that has been more annoying or that I've disliked more than her.

 

[Dr. Know?]

Interesting theory, thanks, and I certainly agree about her rage. He doesn't look comfortable in ANY of the photos taken that day, so I'm with you there. What do you think was going through his mind when he photographed her pink parts? Or do you not believe he took those six photos of JA and allowed her to take two of him?

I'm truely puzzled about the pictures as I know I had a Kodak back then and bought a Sony for our business. I traded back and forth the SD card all the time as the Kodak software was on our office computer to upload pictures of our work. Boytownmom (my apologies if I mispelled your name BoyTwn) had a good observation too about the dates, time & transferring pics. Now to find it.

I have a tripod and a mini tripods that cameras can sit on a flat surface or even a rock, but I think Jodi might have had a mini tripod to take those pics. Easy to do and doesn't take but a minute or so to set up the direction to focus on. That large lounge chair and ottoman or on top of pillows could reach the height needed to take JA's and TA's pics. There's all kinds of ways to take different angles. I've taken thousands of pictures and actually, some are quite good. I just take a lot and hope for the best.

I'd be happy knowing if that is possible or not. I don't get to read all the time. This case & thread moves so so fast at times. kwim?

jmo

 

[deedee21]

Mimi Hall said that he had a doggie door and that JA crawled through it.

I understand why people get them installed, but I wouldn't feel comfortable having one. Nothing like an open invitation for burglars. The only way I'd consider having one installed is if it was for a little dog and the opening was too small for even a child to get through.

Im glad you mentioned the doggy door. It reminded me of Det. Flores question to Jodi. He asked her how she got into Travis' house. She would not answer the question. At this point in time, she did admit she was there. He asked her if she rang the bell, did Travis let you in. She started talking instead about the laws of attraction. She said if you leave a door unlocked, nothing bad will happen. If you lock a door, it means you believe something bad could happen. Im paraphrasing, but this is what she said. So, he asked her again the same question. She went off on another analogy. I believe Travis did not know she was coming. Even if phone records showed she called him, it does not show the nature of the call.The last time she saw him was in April. He cancelled going to see her twice. Thats because he did not want to see her. She said they were going to see each other when he got back from Cancun. But Jodi referenced that that probanly would not have happened.

 

[Allyne Smithe]

Respectfully snipped for space, bbm.

I do not think he had a built in doggy door. I think it was a removable insert along the lines of this one:

http://www.thepetdoorstore.com/

One of TA's friends said she came in the sliding glass door. It did not sound at all like anything she'd have to crawl through. Here's a photo of TA's sliding glass door, and a closeup:

ETA: Found the explanation: Jodi testified that Travis had installed a doggie door, but not one anyone would have to crawl through.
"He had installed a doggie door. So the sliding glass door butts up to it but it doesn`t lock."

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1302/20/ddhln.01.html

 

[deedee21]

Jodi knew she would never see Travis again. And just like others ( men and women) she felt she has lost all control. Thats why hes dead. This is, according to experts,( excluding Alice) a dangerous time for victims. This is when many murders happen. Alice wont admit this because a man was killed plus shes getting 250 an hour times the 44 hrs. she interviewed Jodi plus 300 an hr to bullship the jury.

 

[Juli]

Mimi had only been on a couple of dates with him and just related what she heard from other friends. She never used the word 'crawl.' Here is what Detective Flores wrote after interviewing Mimi:

"I asked about Travis' former girlfriend, Jodi Arias. She didn't know too much about Jodi, other than what she learned tonight. She heard that she was kind of obsessive and that she had manipulated Travis' facebook account. She also mentioned hearing that Jodi would get into the house through the doggie door without being invited. She described Jodi as a "stalker ex-girlfriend." She had moved here from California to be near him. Travis had actually baptized Jodi into the LDS church. Marie said she was actually kind of worried about her, because she was obsessive. She had also heard that Jodi had stolen some of his personal journals and they [sic] had recently taken some pages of his new book he was writing. She knew Travis spoke to Jodi sometime last week. Travis called Jodi, because he caught her hacking into one of his email or Facebook accounts and confronter her about it. Other than this she knew very little about Jodi Arias."

Well, if Mimi didn't mean "crawl" - when she said JA sneaked in through the doggie door - then I'm baffled because JA certainly didn't walk through his doggie door.

Mimi testified in court that Travis told her and warned her about a female stalker. She went on to list several stalker activities, one being that this female stalker gained access through the doggie door and slept on his couch.

I think people know the difference between a doggie door and sliding glass door being ajar. Just because a similar house didn't have a doggie door doesn't mean that Travis never installed one in his home. :twocents:

 

[Arabian Girl]

Well he does look pretty upset, and the judge seems disgusted with ALV.

I thought this was just a regular break; no idea it was a timeout, wow!

I think he was expecting her, for the following reasons:

1. They'd had a number of recent conversations, two very long (and probably sexy) ones, lasting a total of 59 minutes around the same time of night (3 am) they both were still up, as in the May 10 recording.
2. Not only did he call her twice, from his phone, in the 3 am hour on June 2, but she called him again just moments after hanging up from talking an hour. That conversation lasted another 3 minutes.
3. She called him again twice that afternoon, each call lasting several minutes according to this timeline: http://www.hlntv.com/slideshow/2013/02/11/jodi-arias-trial-tragic-roadtrip

After driving all day/night, why wouldn't she come in either the front door or the back sliding door, which opens onto the kitchen? His house didn't actually have a doggie door, just a sliding glass door off the kitchen that he probably left cracked open for Napoleon. [Tawni Dilly took photos of nearly every inch of that house, inside and out, including the garage.] A virtual tour of the same model house, with a reversed floor plan, is here: http://vt.realbiz360.com/Listing-1287339.html

I'm not understanding why she would stand out there for hours? If you've ever driven all day and night, you know how exhausting it is. She also likely prided herself on being able to get to him again--with sex. So I don't see her slinking around outside but coming right in.

In the phone conversation of May 10, he says at the 28:30 mark, "Aren't you glad we started f*cking?" "What?" she asks, pretending not to hear. He repeats, "I said, 'Aren't you glad that we started f*cking?'"

No matter how enraged he was at her that he ranted at her for 16 pages a week earlier, the fact is that they had two very long (and likely sexy) conversations between 3 and 4 am on June 2. An hour's worth. Calls placed by TA. It doesn't take an hour (and two phone calls) to tell someone to stay out of your life. Phone sex can take that long, however.

History is king, as my husband likes to say when he's diagnosing a patient (he's a physician), and in this case the history of JA and TA are that:

- she would continually drive him nuts :rocker:
- they'd fight :furious:
- he'd go back to engaging with her :seeya:

Even taking a trip together to two states three months after he told the Hiatts, "If I don't show up for dinner some Sunday..." Sending her flirty texts (and asking for a naughty photo) two weeks after texting her on April 6 not to contact him again.

He even talked about coming to visit her in Yreka! He brings it up, saying he's looking foward to their little forest adventure (in Green Horn). He says that whatever else he does on that trip, "You are number one."

Perhaps because he feared what she might do if he cut things off altogether or just because he's male and males compartmentalize, but he did engage with her again; that photo of her with her rear in the air and a tootsie roll in her hoo-ha was, tragically, the last photo TA ever took. :what:

Here's more of the CNN transcript of that tape. I have a feeling most people commenting that he would never [fill in the blank] haven't listened to the hour-plus tape, in his own words:

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1302/18/ng.01.html

In the words of former TA girlfriend Lisa Andrews:

"The first time she broke up with Alexander, Diadoni said she believed he was cheating on her with Arias. A former roommate of his told Diadoni's sister he was cheating, and she shared the information with Diadoni, she testified.

"Following the breakup, Alexander emailed and texted Diadoni, and they got back together when she felt she could trust him again, she testified. However, they again broke up, Diadoni said, because she felt Alexander was pressuring her to get married and she did not feel ready.

Diadoni testified she never had sexual intercourse with Alexander. Willmott then questioned Diadoni about an email she sent to Alexander on Sept. 23, 2007.

"In the email, Diadoni told Alexander she did not want him to text or email her anymore. It says when they were together, they would make out "for too long" and that Diadoni felt Alexander wanted her just for her body. She felt Alexander had a lot of sexual tension, which made her feel used and dirty, the email says.

"Diadoni wrote in the lengthy email that she had asked Alexander not to "grab her butt," especially in public, but she did not feel he was really listening to her. She said she also asked him not to talk about sex so much "but he did anyway," and she did not feel like he cared how she felt.

"Alexander, according to Diadoni's email, asked for compliments often and did not share the same values that she embraced. She also said he overreacted a lot.

"Diadoni testified that she later discussed the email with Alexander, who said he wanted to show Diadoni that he cared about her and to address the issues in the email. Diadoni said Wednesday that she had written the email in anger, and that the couple soon felt the issues were resolved and began dating a third time."

Sound familiar? He liked sexy talk, he was still engaging with JA, they [he and Lisa] argued but made up and resumed dating.

I don't believe he was happy to have her there, because they didn't take as many still photos as he'd talked about, and he was obviously doing housework rather than visiting with her. He'd assembled the floor cleaner and had moved the furniture off the floor. But I do believe he knew she was coming. But what do I know, just guessing like everyone else. :cow:

All this proves is that TA and Jodi had an extremely dysfunctional relationship, that seems very clear and it was mutual. What the above does explain is just more of Jodi's motive. That's all.

Should they both have ended it? Of course. But it doesn't matter if it went on for 5 more years and she does the same thing. IMO there was no more *abuse* on TA's part than on Jodi's. And she murdered him viciously, in cold blood and with premeditation. The end.
:jail:

 

[Juli]

[clipped for space]

ETA: Found the explanation: Jodi testified that Travis had installed a doggie door, but not one anyone would have to crawl through.
"He had installed a doggie door. So the sliding glass door butts up to it but it doesn`t lock."

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1302/20/ddhln.01.html

I wouldn't believe JA about not being able to crawl through it. She probably just said that to deflect from her stalker activities.

 

[deedee21]

The Stranger Beside Me (48 hours)

JM put a man behind bars (54 years) for the murder of his girlfriend - no weapon or body was ever found.

Hmm...I'm trying to provide a link only, but the video keeps popping up. If you click on "The Stranger Beside Me - 48 Hours - CBS News" it will take you to the video.

The Stranger Beside Me - 48 Hours - CBS News

I recall reading a book with that title. It was about Ted Bundy. Written by Anne Rule.