weekend discussion: discuss the trial here #154

[TexMex]

The evidence is showing that their final conversations were exchanges of threats-- not about Cancun.

You don't need to kill someone over a trip! What Travis was threatening to do was to ruin Arias' chances to move to the next man to the right, which is what she's always done.

The evidence shows she did not need to grieve Travis' death, but was able to clean blood off her hands and begin grinding immediately on someone else. This does not look like "he's the only one--I had to have him" jealous mentality to me. It looks more like, "up the ladder I go and I f*ckin' got rid of his *advertiser censored*--ruin me, will he...well look who ruined who!"

It was her future she was concerned about and willing to kill to preserve--a future of $$$ and prestige as a trophy wife, nothing to do with religion or love at all.

All about Jodi and her ability to continue to use her (perceived) assets to insure a way out of the ghetto.


Anagrammy

I think Jodi had enormous anger/angst/concern over finances. She seems to have gone from working two jobs, having money in savings and owning a home to barely employed part time living in a room in her grandparents modest home within five years. Her father said she had considered bankruptcy but didn't have the money to file.

I think she had gambled everything on marriage to Travis. She had basically quit working to travel with him, stalk him, pretend to sell PPL. That fell through. She has enormous anger. It's his fault. She knows she must move on. She sees PPL as her best bet. She is 27, wants marriage, financial stability, kids. She figures she can get this the fastest by hooking up with another Morman guy. They are family oriented, marriage minded and she had already converted! But as you say, Travis could prevent her plan from succeeding. He knew things. If he let on to her next prospect or his friends or family that would be it. In her mind, for her to "move on" Travis had to die. She felt justified! He hurt her by rejecting her, he was abandoning her. She had fulfilled his fantasies but she wasn't good enough to be his wife. He was the reason she left her job, her boyfriend Daryl and their house. He ruined all that, her career, her credit. It's his fault she's back in little Yreka. And now, unless she does something Travis was going to ruin her chance of a future. For Jodi to move on Travis had to go.

 

[sacrablue]

Electro-convulsive therapy is used for depression and certain psychoses, not PTSD and your Mother would have been diagnosed the same way JA was before any 'cure' was attempted. At least I understand where you're coming from now though. <modsnip> I'm sorry you're so frustrated but please don't take it out on a licensed professional who was following protocol. <modsnip>

I knew someone would take my statements and twist them but such is life.
I know what ECT is used for. PTSD was not the subject. The topic was inexperienced Docs using tests to evaluate people. Mostly a waste of time. I do not hate Dr. D. She has very little to add so there is nothing to hate. <modsnip>

 

[InALandFarFarAway]

Are you being sarcastic? Hard to tell. There's just a lot of people around who use dumb excuses like calling you a racist to cover up for their dumb behavior. I'm not racist, never have been. I'll give you an example...many years ago we had some black (pardon the maybe not so politically correct term) neighbors with six kids that they would often lock outside the house to fend for themselves. Some of those kids hung out with my kids and I would take them in my car with us to their baseball , football practice, etc. Those kids practically lived at our house. I had never met the parents. At some point it appeared that one of the kids was actually living in our yard so I finally decided to call his school's counselor to ask what I should do. She told me I could report it anonymously and all of this BS but in fact, just after I talked to her, she called the kids mother. The mother who I had never met,never spoken to and who had basically ignored the fact that their kids were always at our house, came stomping over to confront me about making that report. The first words out of her mouth was that I had reported it because I was racist against black people. She chewed me out some more,made threats to get a lawyer and all kinds of BS and of course not one word of acknowledgement that we had basically been taking care of her kids because they were constantly locked out of their house.

I think your experience shouldn't be the standard by which you judge whether or not something is racist.

I think white people, Asian people, Jewish people, Native American people, Latino people ... let's just say the whole world ... make excuses for their behavior at some time or another but to paint a brush over an entire race based upon one or two experiences is irresponsible.

I have been called the "N" word more times than I can count by white people. Do I think white people as a group are racist? No, I think the white people who called me the "N" word are racist. If I had the attitude that all white people are racist based upon the actions of a handful of people, I'd be as dumb as the people who called me names.

I take everyone as they come no matter what experience I've had with any particular group. I know when something is racist. Believe me. I don't go looking for it, I don't blame my behavior on it and I don't ever expect it. But when I do find it, I call it and you'd better be wearing protective padding when I do.

That's all I'm going to say on this topic on this day.

 

[chijojo]

OT...sorry, but I want this dog.

http://youtu.be/VWLQ-5fwgXM

 

[kaRN]

Thank you for your kind words, Anagrammy. Your posts are erudite and eloquent, and I have also gained a great deal from your point of view. Still, I find Katie's visible pain profoundly troubling, particularly in light of my tendency to be humorous at times.

And laughter is the best medicine. :seeya:

 

[chijojo]

I knew someone would take my statements and twist them but such is life.
I know what ECT is used for. PTSD was not the subject. The topic was inexperienced Docs using tests to evaluate people. Mostly a waste of time. I do not hate Dr. D. She has very little to add so there is nothing to hate. <modsnip>.

BBM

Really? I think she wrapped up the prosecution's case quite nicely.

 

[gloomy]

I think the "group" was composed of friends of Travis and by all admissions from the group, Jodi was stand-offish, cold and showed no interest in getting to know them.

I think if she had made more of an effort to return friendly overtures instead of focusing on getting him away from the group and pulling that sex kitten behavior at every opportunity, the group may have been more open and receptive to her.

There was an intervention for Travis and guess who was lurking in the hallway eavesdropping. :facepalm:

Travis got in over his head. I think he was conflicted between the sexual gratification and freedom he felt with Jodi and the knowledge that the relationship wasn't healthy and that he was moving away from what he really wanted in life. He could have turned her away and he could have said no but evidently whenever he would do that with any force, it resulted in her crawling through the doggie door or sleeping on his sofa in the middle of the night. When he finally made it crystal clear he was done ... we know what happened next.

Hindsight is 20/20 and I'm sure from this point forward if someone like Jodi pops into their lives, they'll all be more proactive but they were Travis' friends not Jodi's and they just wanted her to go away.

I think her own friends did try to help her and her mother said some of her friends would call the house in the middle of the night about Jodi's behavior.

Yes!

And imo:
I don't believe Travis was mentally stable. I think he didn't know how insane Arias was and probably thought he could handle her.

I think it's very rare for people to spot a psychopath. But please don't ask me how I define rare.

 

[Nosey Parker]

Her disorder certainly includes a marked disdain for authority; that will be a bit of a problem, of course. What's more, she'll be in an environment where she will meet many others with the same or similar personality profile, all of them attempting to manipulate others to their ends. This will inevitably bring her into conflict.

She has enjoyed her stay in jail thusfar as she has been able to constantly crow about her innocence and receive the star treatment given the media attention. Once convicted, she will simply be another inmate. This will be intolerable for her, so she will spend much of her energy attempting to recreate a malleable environment within which she determines the rules of reality. That is bound to be disappointing.

:cow:

It could also prove dangerous. :twocents:

 

[DeAnnaMisrahi]

Here are some of the things I wrote in my latest blog about Jodi Arias. Basically, I wanted to write what it would take for me to give her the "benefit of the doubt." I would post the entire thing, but I think it would be obnoxious and rude, so... Here is just an excerpt.

You can read the whole thing, and see the funny banner I made for my signature (which, turns out isn't allowed here OOPS) here though: http://anotherpov.wordpress.com/2013/04/20/giving-jodi-arias-the-benefit-of-the-doubt/

Here is what we must believe in order to give Jodi Arias the benefit of the doubt in this case:

1. It really was just a coincidence that a gun of the same caliber, used in the murder, was “stolen” from her home mere days prior to killing Alexander. (Investigator says robbery looked staged.)
2. It really did take 5 hours to get her nails did. (And, she didn’t get her hair dyed from Blonde to Brunette on the way to Arizona)
3. That guy at the rent-a-car place is just colorblind and couldn’t tell the difference between blonde and brunette when he said that she was blonde when she picked up the car.
4. The real reason she didn’t want that red rent-a-car is because she didn’t want to get a ticket. You know, because somehow, a red car controls how fast you drive.
5. She simply forgot that the whole purpose of borrowing/buying gas cans was so she could get cheaper gas out of the state of California. That’s why she filled up the cans in California. Duh!
6. Although she bought a gas can from Wal-Mart and paid for it with her credit card, she actually took that gas can back and received a cash refund for it.
7. It’s just an oversight that Wal-Mart has no records of anyone returning a gas can that day.
8. A roving band of license plate flippers, on skateboards, flipped her license plate.
9. Travis begged her to come see him after he called her an evil sociopath and told her that she was the worst thing that ever happened to him.
10. She lost her charger and her phone went dead just before she entered AZ.
11. Using her credit card everywhere else but AZ doesn’t look suspicious.
12. Travis cut rope in the bathroom instead of measuring it to fit the bed in the bedroom.
13. Travis’s bed was good for tying someone to it, even though it was a SLEIGH bed.
14. Although she had destroyed his BMW, and he suspected her of slashing his tires twice, dropping Travis’s camera pissed him off enough to want to kill her. (I mean, OBVIOUSLY the camera still worked – oops.)
15. She was so slick with her ninja-like moves that she ran into the closet, passed a bench, climbed flimsy shelves and grabbed a gun, in a MANIC dash to save her life, and not one thing was shoved, pushed, or kicked out of its place.
16. Doing number 14 was actually easier than running down the stairs and out of the house.
17. Doing number 14 made sense, even though she had no clue if the gun was loaded.
18. She took Travis on 1 vs. 1, with no element of surprise, and only walked away with small cuts on her fingers.
19. She shot Travis first, although the Medical Examiner said that he could not have been shot first due to the bullet in his brain being debilitating.
20. She doesn’t remember anything about the stabbing, even 5 years later.

There are 25 other things we must believe in order to give Arias the benefit of the doubt.

So, yea. That ain't happening for this chica right here! What about you?

 

[uklady]

I seem to recall Dr. DeMarte saying under direct examination that the time she spent administering the various psychological tests were NOT included in the 12 hours of clinical interviews with Jodi.

Also I believe she said that to have spent much longer (as in the huge amount of hours that ALV and "Dr" Samuels did) would be seen more as treatment and not an evaluation.

 

[cricket49]

I think Jodi had enormous anger/angst/concern over finances. She seems to have gone from working two jobs, having money in savings and owning a home to barely employed part time living in a room in her grandparents modest home within five years. Her father said she had considered bankruptcy but didn't have the money to file.

I think she had gambled everything on marriage to Travis. She had basically quit working to travel with him, stalk him, pretend to sell PPL. That fell through. She has enormous anger. It's his fault. She knows she must move on. She sees PPL as her best bet. She is 27, wants marriage, financial stability, kids. She figures she can get this the fastest by hooking up with another Morman guy. They are family oriented, marriage minded and she had already converted! But as you say, Travis could prevent her plan from succeeding. He knew things. If he let on to her next prospect or his friends or family that would be it. In her mind, for her to "move on" Travis had to die. She felt justified! He hurt her by rejecting her, he was abandoning her. She had fulfilled his fantasies but she wasn't good enough to be his wife. He was the reason she left her job, her boyfriend Daryl and their house. He ruined all that, her career, her credit. It's his fault she's back in little Yreka. And now, unless she does something Travis was going to ruin her chance of a future. For Jodi to move on Travis had to go.

Your post is very insightful and I agree with all of it.

:tyou:

 

[leebee52]

I think your experience shouldn't be the standard by which you judge whether or not something is racist.

I think white people, Asian people, Jewish people, Native American people, Latino people ... let's just say the whole world ... make excuses for their behavior at some time or another but to paint a brush over an entire race based upon one or two experiences is irresponsible.

I have been called the "N" word more times than I can count by white people. Do I think white people as a group are racist? No, I think the white people who called me the "N" word are racist. If I had the attitude that all white people are racist based upon the actions of a handful of people, I'd be as dumb as the people who called me names.

I take everyone as they come no matter what experience I've had with any particular group. I know when something is racist. Believe me. I don't go looking for it, I don't blame my behavior on it and I don't ever expect it. But when I do find it, I call it and you'd better be wearing protective padding when I do.

That's all I'm going to say on this topic on this day.

Good for you, that's how it should be. But there are people who just have a chip on their shoulder for whatever reason. I live in the land of 90% Hispanics and I get called things pretty much everyday because I'm Anglo. When I go places it's pretty normal for me to be the only Anglo there. Funny thing is, the minute I start talking Spanish, all that racist stuff goes away. My husband is Hispanic BTW.

 

[TXProfessional]

Yes!

And imo:
I don't believe Travis was mentally stable. I think he didn't know how insane Arias was and probably thought he could handle her.

I think it's very rare for people to spot a psychopath. But please don't ask me how I define rare.

Just wondering what led you to believe Travis wasn't mentally stable, I would like to hear your thoughts on this if you are willing to share them.

 

[kaRN]

Here are some of the things I wrote in my latest blog about Jodi Arias. Basically, I wanted to write what it would take for me to give her the "benefit of the doubt." I would post the entire thing, but I think it would be obnoxious and rude, so... Here is just an excerpt.

You can read the whole thing, and see the funny banner I made for my signature (which, turns out isn't allowed here OOPS) here though: http://anotherpov.wordpress.com/2013/04/20/giving-jodi-arias-the-benefit-of-the-doubt/

Here is what we must believe in order to give Jodi Arias the benefit of the doubt in this case:

1. It really was just a coincidence that a gun of the same caliber, used in the murder, was “stolen” from her home mere days prior to killing Alexander. (Investigator says robbery looked staged.)
2. It really did take 5 hours to get her nails did. (And, she didn’t get her hair dyed from Blonde to Brunette on the way to Arizona)
3. That guy at the rent-a-car place is just colorblind and couldn’t tell the difference between blonde and brunette when he said that she was blonde when she picked up the car.
4. The real reason she didn’t want that red rent-a-car is because she didn’t want to get a ticket. You know, because somehow, a red car controls how fast you drive.
5. She simply forgot that the whole purpose of borrowing/buying gas cans was so she could get cheaper gas out of the state of California. That’s why she filled up the cans in California. Duh!
6. Although she bought a gas can from Wal-Mart and paid for it with her credit card, she actually took that gas can back and received a cash refund for it.
7. It’s just an oversight that Wal-Mart has no records of anyone returning a gas can that day.
8. A roving band of license plate flippers, on skateboards, flipped her license plate.
9. Travis begged her to come see him after he called her an evil sociopath and told her that she was the worst thing that ever happened to him.
10. She lost her charger and her phone went dead just before she entered AZ.
11. Using her credit card everywhere else but AZ doesn’t look suspicious.
12. Travis cut rope in the bathroom instead of measuring it to fit the bed in the bedroom.
13. Travis’s bed was good for tying someone to it, even though it was a SLEIGH bed.
14. Although she had destroyed his BMW, and he suspected her of slashing his tires twice, dropping Travis’s camera pissed him off enough to want to kill her. (I mean, OBVIOUSLY the camera still worked – oops.)
15. She was so slick with her ninja-like moves that she ran into the closet, passed a bench, climbed flimsy shelves and grabbed a gun, in a MANIC dash to save her life, and not one thing was shoved, pushed, or kicked out of its place.
16. Doing number 14 was actually easier than running down the stairs and out of the house.
17. Doing number 14 made sense, even though she had no clue if the gun was loaded.
18. She took Travis on 1 vs. 1, with no element of surprise, and only walked away with small cuts on her fingers.
19. She shot Travis first, although the Medical Examiner said that he could not have been shot first due to the bullet in his brain being debilitating.
20. She doesn’t remember anything about the stabbing, even 5 years later.

There are 25 other things we must believe in order to give Arias the benefit of the doubt.

So, yea. That ain't happening for this chica right here! What about you?

Talented lady!!! You could do the closing argument!!! :woohoo:

 

[leebee52]

As far as Travis....I can only imagine that JA told him all kinds of woe is me pitiful stories about her life that were probably untrue or embellished. She had to TOP his childhood horror story of course. I can imagine that he felt sorry for her. I can imagine that he thought he could help her in some way. And I can imagine that she led him into believing that they could have lots of sex with no commitments which was too enticing for him and which he learned too late was a BIG mistake.

 

[InALandFarFarAway]

I think Jodi had enormous anger/angst/concern over finances.

>snip<

She has enormous anger.
>snip<

When Juan mentioned Travis' closet being small, that anger resurfaced. She very tightly commented that she didn't think the closet was small.

"It's bigger than the cell I live in so no, the closet isn't small." Yikes.

Agree with all of your comments but these just reminded me of her testimony.

 

[leebee52]

Also I believe she said that to have spent much longer (as in the huge amount of hours that ALV and "Dr" Samuels did) would be seen more as treatment and not an evaluation.

Exactly and...IMO...neither Samuels or ALV evaluated anything. They were too interested in feeling sorry for her and being her friend.

 

[Truth Detector]

ONE of your cats? :what:

How many do you have? I have 4 :blushing:

Zero -- not my cat. :seeya:

 

[Truth Detector]

Post du jour!

 

[cricket49]

Good for you, that's how it should be. But there are people who just have a chip on their shoulder for whatever reason. I live in the land of 90% Hispanics and I get called things pretty much everyday because I'm Anglo. When I go places it's pretty normal for me to be the only Anglo there. Funny thing is, the minute I start talking Spanish, all that racist stuff goes away. My husband is Hispanic BTW.

Well, you must have some great moments when they are talking or cussing you in Spanish knowing you are not hispanic and then you start speaking Spanish back to them.

Busted.... :rocker: