weekend discussion: discuss the trial here #154

[leebee52]

OK .. now this might be a little controversial, but that's fine. I have a little bit of an issue with how Jodi's behaviour was handled by the 'group', I understand that they didn't like her and LORD KNOWS they had good reason, but to simply yell at someone and tell them that you don't like them when they've just been dumped by your good friend is not the most compassionate way to deal with someone. I have an issue with that. Although I do understand the frustration that made Sky react that way.

Clearly Jodi was disturbed, I have never dealt with a person as extreme as Jodi, but I definitely have known a lot of girls who have gone completely loopy over a guy to the point of vindictiveness / stalking / tire slashing etc. And basically what was done was a kind of intervention, you know just all the rest of us (after discussing her behaviour) deciding on a combined message to drill into her head, and then began drilling it into her head! You know 'Stop all behaviour, you're making yourself crazy, you're making it worse, can you imagine what he thinks of you .. is that really how you want to be remembered AS THE BUNNY BOILER EX GIRLFRIEND?, stop writing about him, stop talking about him, stop thinking about him, behave your way out of this, etc etc etc' .... until they wake up to themselves.

Also Travis himself .. he kept sleeping with her! He knew more than anyone that it was bad, that she had it baaaaaaaaaad, did anyone in this group think of Jodi? Wouldn't a guy think 'maybe I should stop sleeping with this chick, because it's going to keep her in this unhealthy situation' .. I don't think that's too far fetched to think of men as capable of that, I've known many men who've stopped sleeping with women for just that reason.

It is the one thing that bothers me the most about Jodi's side of the story. That nobody had any compassion for her, and nobody went 'whoa, OK something's not right here, this is beyond the scope of normal, this girl has mental problems, we need to THINK CAREFULLY about how we handle this'.

Good observations. I tend to think that no one in the "group" had any experience with someone like JA. She's kind of an enigma is a lot of ways. The group also probably thought it was Travis's business. It was clear that a lot in the group didn't care for her and put up with her because of Travis. And as far as Travis....not terribly unusual for a man to think with the "wrong head" when it comes to a woman who is constantly throwing their naked selves in their path and stroking their ego/machismo. Pardon how that all might sound, I tried to be tactful.

 

[PrincessSezMe]

OMG.. so familiar. I have one that purrs like someone with the last stages of emphysema.. and I can still see myself trying to get 3 dogs to learn how to use the doggie door.. poor little Max is always is such a hurry to check out the last fallen leaf that he gets smacked in the face by the flap from whatever dog beat him to the door. I have a zoo.

OMG, my little Pom is named Max. We called him that after the dog on How the Grinch Stole Christmas because he has those same little "Who" feet. Too funny.

 

[MidwestWoman]

I agree; their approach is deplorable. It is incredibly difficult to hear the self-defense argument, with its concomitant trashing of Travis Alexander.

It's wrong, and it's awful.

BUT--there can be NO argument made that Jodi Arias was not rigorously defended.

And THAT is my only criterion for "good defense." That she can't weasel out of a conviction based on trial error.

She's gotten a good defense.

But I agree, it's been heart-wrenching, and the family has been traumatized yet again, watching their slain brother essentially brutalized all over again.

Please don't misunderstand; I HATE what they are doing. I especially hate the self-defense angle. I have a malignant narcissist/sociopath father, a sociopath/psychopath nephew, and an almost ex-husband with a mixed personality disorder (which, really, they often are) with STRONG antisocial tendencies. One thing (among many) they all have in common is that NOT ONE OF THEM would accept any defense that even hinted at mental illness. They, too, would insist on self-defense.

I am quite certain that the defendant insisted, as well. Because no lawyer in his/her right mind would attempt to swim up Niagara falls when they could stay on the backyard slip 'n' slide.

I'm glad the rigorous defense leaves no room for the murderess to slither through a legal loophole. But when I say "good defense," I DON'T mean that it sits well with me. I think it's despicable. I think they've bought their own tickets to hell with this one, actually.

But Arias won't have another free moment in her life----and that, given that we can't undo her heinous acts, is about all we can hope for at this point.

I'm sorry I didn't clarify my meaning. I don't think they're good. I don't think their approach is good. I don't think anything about this situation is good, other than that (a) Juan Martinez is prosecuting, and doing an astounding job, and (b) Arias is getting a strong enough defense that she will never be able to claim incompetent counsel.

:rocker: The Heat Is Juan: The Heat Is Juan ( A Juantra) - YouTube

 

[Nhic]

 

[Sleuth5]

Oh, you are so right. I've thought that phrase often...big fish in a little pond, Jodi, while in jail. Prison awaits.
Sorta like the small town big jock heading off to college, it is whole new world. Always someone smarter, prettier, stronger.... meaner, devious, more psychopathic...almost feeling sorry for her.

Almost.

 

[leebee52]

WOW! Just ... WOW!

I can't begin to imagine why someone would think anything racist would come from you. :facepalm:

Just.
wow.

Are you being sarcastic? Hard to tell. There's just a lot of people around who use dumb excuses like calling you a racist to cover up for their dumb behavior. I'm not racist, never have been. I'll give you an example...many years ago we had some black (pardon the maybe not so politically correct term) neighbors with six kids that they would often lock outside the house to fend for themselves. Some of those kids hung out with my kids and I would take them in my car with us to their baseball , football practice, etc. Those kids practically lived at our house. I had never met the parents. At some point it appeared that one of the kids was actually living in our yard so I finally decided to call his school's counselor to ask what I should do. She told me I could report it anonymously and all of this BS but in fact, just after I talked to her, she called the kids mother. The mother who I had never met,never spoken to and who had basically ignored the fact that their kids were always at our house, came stomping over to confront me about making that report. The first words out of her mouth was that I had reported it because I was racist against black people. She chewed me out some more,made threats to get a lawyer and all kinds of BS and of course not one word of acknowledgement that we had basically been taking care of her kids because they were constantly locked out of their house.

 

[ElleElle]

ONE of your cats? :what:

How many do you have? I have 4 :blushing:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q_enVia5xyA

 

[cricket49]

:floorlaugh::floorlaugh::floorlaugh:

 

[Mrs G Norris]

ITA, Mrs. G. I have also wondered about the "group" mentality with regard to his love interests. Maybe it's just because I never allowed others to influence my thinking regarding that kind of personal decision -- certainly not when I was 30. I do think it's something worth considering.

Good observations. I tend to think that no one in the "group" had any experience with someone like JA. She's kind of an enigma is a lot of ways. The group also probably thought it was Travis's business. It was clear that a lot in the group didn't care for her and put up with her because of Travis. And as far as Travis....not terribly unusual for a man to think with the "wrong head" when it comes to a woman who is constantly throwing their naked selves in their path and stroking their ego/machismo. Pardon how that all might sound, I tried to be tactful.

It seems to me that the only way they reacted to her was with mob rejection, meanwhile Travis decided to just continue to simply use her for sex. A little combined intelligence might have actually helped. It does bother me. The combination of factors combined with Jodi's 'mental problems' was a recipe for disaster, I am amazed that as a group they didn't all know this! They seem like an intelligent group of people to me.

 

[InALandFarFarAway]

OK .. now this might be a little controversial, but that's fine. I have a little bit of an issue with how Jodi's behaviour was handled by the 'group', I understand that they didn't like her and LORD KNOWS they had good reason, but to simply yell at someone and tell them that you don't like them when they've just been dumped by your good friend is not the most compassionate way to deal with someone. I have an issue with that. Although I do understand the frustration that made Sky react that way.

Clearly Jodi was disturbed, I have never dealt with a person as extreme as Jodi, but I definitely have known a lot of girls who have gone completely loopy over a guy to the point of vindictiveness / stalking / tire slashing etc. And basically what was done was a kind of intervention, you know just all the rest of us (after discussing her behaviour) deciding on a combined message to drill into her head, and then began drilling it into her head! You know 'Stop all behaviour, you're making yourself crazy, you're making it worse, can you imagine what he thinks of you .. is that really how you want to be remembered AS THE BUNNY BOILER EX GIRLFRIEND?, stop writing about him, stop talking about him, stop thinking about him, behave your way out of this, etc etc etc' .... until they wake up to themselves.

Also Travis himself .. he kept sleeping with her! He knew more than anyone that it was bad, that she had it baaaaaaaaaad, did anyone in this group think of Jodi? Wouldn't a guy think 'maybe I should stop sleeping with this chick, because it's going to keep her in this unhealthy situation' .. I don't think that's too far fetched to think of men as capable of that, I've known many men who've stopped sleeping with women for just that reason.

It is the one thing that bothers me the most about Jodi's side of the story. That nobody had any compassion for her, and nobody went 'whoa, OK something's not right here, this is beyond the scope of normal, this girl has mental problems, we need to THINK CAREFULLY about how we handle this'.

I think the "group" was composed of friends of Travis and by all admissions from the group, Jodi was stand-offish, cold and showed no interest in getting to know them.

I think if she had made more of an effort to return friendly overtures instead of focusing on getting him away from the group and pulling that sex kitten behavior at every opportunity, the group may have been more open and receptive to her.

There was an intervention for Travis and guess who was lurking in the hallway eavesdropping. :facepalm:

Travis got in over his head. I think he was conflicted between the sexual gratification and freedom he felt with Jodi and the knowledge that the relationship wasn't healthy and that he was moving away from what he really wanted in life. He could have turned her away and he could have said no but evidently whenever he would do that with any force, it resulted in her crawling through the doggie door or sleeping on his sofa in the middle of the night. When he finally made it crystal clear he was done ... we know what happened next.

Hindsight is 20/20 and I'm sure from this point forward if someone like Jodi pops into their lives, they'll all be more proactive but they were Travis' friends not Jodi's and they just wanted her to go away.

I think her own friends did try to help her and her mother said some of her friends would call the house in the middle of the night about Jodi's behavior.

 

[Horace Finklestein]

OK .. now this might be a little controversial, but that's fine. I have a little bit of an issue with how Jodi's behaviour was handled by the 'group', I understand that they didn't like her and LORD KNOWS they had good reason, but to simply yell at someone and tell them that you don't like them when they've just been dumped by your good friend is not the most compassionate way to deal with someone. I have an issue with that. Although I do understand the frustration that made Sky react that way.

Clearly Jodi was disturbed, I have never dealt with a person as extreme as Jodi, but I definitely have known a lot of girls who have gone completely loopy over a guy to the point of vindictiveness / stalking / tire slashing etc. And basically what was done was a kind of intervention, you know just all the rest of us (after discussing her behaviour) deciding on a combined message to drill into her head, and then began drilling it into her head! You know 'Stop all behaviour, you're making yourself crazy, you're making it worse, can you imagine what he thinks of you .. is that really how you want to be remembered AS THE BUNNY BOILER EX GIRLFRIEND?, stop writing about him, stop talking about him, stop thinking about him, behave your way out of this, etc etc etc' .... until they wake up to themselves.

Also Travis himself .. he kept sleeping with her! He knew more than anyone that it was bad, that she had it baaaaaaaaaad, did anyone in this group think of Jodi? Wouldn't a guy think 'maybe I should stop sleeping with this chick, because it's going to keep her in this unhealthy situation' .. I don't think that's too far fetched to think of men as capable of that, I've known many men who've stopped sleeping with women for just that reason.

It is the one thing that bothers me the most about Jodi's side of the story. That nobody had any compassion for her, and nobody went 'whoa, OK something's not right here, this is beyond the scope of normal, this girl has mental problems, we need to THINK CAREFULLY about how we handle this'.

She was a big girl and was not entitled to anything from the group of Travis' friends she decided to latch onto/invite herself to join. May have been nice for her to get that attention she so desperately craved, but it wasn't incumbent on anyone to look out for her. She did nothing but victimize and terrorize people and there's probably a lot of her antics we haven't heard about. She didn't deserve compassion, empathy or friendship and there's a reason she never got it.

 

[leebee52]

I keep imagining JA hiding behind that Christmas tree in her Spidey underwear.

 

[nightwatch]

“I sent 20 white Irises. Travis always told me that he liked the name Iris for a girl…He liked Ivan for a boy’s name. If I ever have a son, I’ll name him Alexander.” ~ Journaled by the lying torture-murderess

I would sure like to read the letter ja sent to ta's gm and family. What did she say to fill 18 pages? What lies ? Moo

droid

 

[ChinaBlue]

The camera was not on her mental inventory list of things she brought with her.

When asked about the 9mm gun she purchased, why not just say "I was going away to kill myself"? Why the panning for gold lie? Both were lies, but seems sostrange even for Jodi.

Because Travis said he wanted to marry a gold digger In his blog. It was a twist on that in my opinion.

Sent from my SCH-S720C using Tapatalk 2

Oh, that is priceless and so like JA to weave fact into friction. Thnaks for the chuckle.

 

[aa9511]

OK .. now this might be a little controversial, but that's fine. I have a little bit of an issue with how Jodi's behaviour was handled by the 'group', I understand that they didn't like her and LORD KNOWS they had good reason, but to simply yell at someone and tell them that you don't like them when they've just been dumped by your good friend is not the most compassionate way to deal with someone. I have an issue with that. Although I do understand the frustration that made Sky react that way.

Clearly Jodi was disturbed, I have never dealt with a person as extreme as Jodi, but I definitely have known a lot of girls who have gone completely loopy over a guy to the point of vindictiveness / stalking / tire slashing etc. And basically what was done was a kind of intervention, you know just all the rest of us (after discussing her behaviour) deciding on a combined message to drill into her head, and then began drilling it into her head! You know 'Stop all behaviour, you're making yourself crazy, you're making it worse, can you imagine what he thinks of you .. is that really how you want to be remembered AS THE BUNNY BOILER EX GIRLFRIEND?, stop writing about him, stop talking about him, stop thinking about him, behave your way out of this, etc etc etc' .... until they wake up to themselves.

Also Travis himself .. he kept sleeping with her! He knew more than anyone that it was bad, that she had it baaaaaaaaaad, did anyone in this group think of Jodi? Wouldn't a guy think 'maybe I should stop sleeping with this chick, because it's going to keep her in this unhealthy situation' .. I don't think that's too far fetched to think of men as capable of that, I've known many men who've stopped sleeping with women for just that reason.

It is the one thing that bothers me the most about Jodi's side of the story. That nobody had any compassion for her, and nobody went 'whoa, OK something's not right here, this is beyond the scope of normal, this girl has mental problems, we need to THINK CAREFULLY about how we handle this'.

I understand your points. I think they had natural behavior, that is to defend the one you're closest to. I think Travis' friends thought that she had inserted herself into his and their life, and so it wasn't part of their job as Travis' friend to take care of her or be loyal to her...especially since they had all caught onto her ways and felt like she was very bad for their good friend. I think that's totally normal. You expect that person to have family and friends who take care of her. I would honestly not expect my husband's friends to be loyal to me if we should ever divorce, even though I have also had a friendship with them over the years.

As far as Travis and why he kept his relationship with her...I think the defense has done a good job of portraying their relationship as only sexual, but they did have another aspect which was just general talking on the phone and texting, etc.. I think Travis felt sorry for her, and I think it was in his nature to try to see the best in people and to try to help them. Maybe he felt like he could be a positive influence on her...seems to me like she would have gone down a much lower road had it not been for meeting him (before the murder, of course). She would have engaged in the same kind of sex with any other man she had met if it wasn't Travis, and who knows what else she would have gotten into. Plus he helped her with things like car, money, life's problems in general. I honestly feel like he didn't think he was nearly as bad for her and she was for him.

 

[TXProfessional]

Signed back on to respond to this. I apologize. I'm very over reactive right now and my emotions are right on the surface. In fact I write this with tears streaming down my face thinking of the loss of innocence so many of us including you have endured. Second to my sister and missing her, I miss my innocence the most. I work very hard sometimes to retain a spark of light inside me. This,trial has just gone on too damn long. Fatigue. Memories.

I'm sorry for a misunderstanding...I love you all for being patient with me, the ones who are I mean. I have a few in solitary confinement

Hoping serenity and peace find you on this day.

 

[SCSam]

OMG, my little Pom is named Max. We called him that after the dog on How the Grinch Stole Christmas because he has those same little "Who" feet. Too funny.

WOW! My Max is a Pom too... in summer he keeps a Teddy Bear cut and is always so precious.. but then all my fur babies are... lol

 

[Mrs G Norris]

She was a big girl and was not entitled to anything from the group of Travis' friends she decided to latch onto/invite herself to join. May have been nice for her to get that attention she so desperately craved, but it wasn't incumbent on anyone to look out for her. She did nothing but victimize and terrorize people and there's probably a lot of her antics we haven't heard about. She didn't deserve compassion, empathy or friendship and there's a reason she never got it.

I understand the anger and frustration I really do .. I just also thing there are ways of 'dampening down' a situation, and it seems to me that it wasn't done in a combined way. People didn't see that she was actually disturbed and treat her with kid gloves. And yes, you're right .. she had no connection with them and it wasn't their job.

 

[SCSam]

ONE of your cats? :what:

How many do you have? I have 4 :blushing:

And I have three..along with three dogs and three birds... as I said.. a small zoo here

 

[leebee52]

I think the "group" was composed of friends of Travis and by all admissions from the group, Jodi was stand-offish, cold and showed no interest in getting to know them.

I think if she had made more of an effort to return friendly overtures instead of focusing on getting him away from the group and pulling that sex kitten behavior at every opportunity, the group may have been more open and receptive to her.

There was an intervention for Travis and guess who was lurking in the hallway eavesdropping. :facepalm:

Travis got in over his head. I think he was conflicted between the sexual gratification and freedom he felt with Jodi and the knowledge that the relationship wasn't healthy and that he was moving away from what he really wanted in life. He could have turned her away and he could have said no but evidently whenever he would do that with any force, it resulted in her crawling through the doggie door or sleeping on his sofa in the middle of the night. When he finally made it crystal clear he was done ... we know what happened next.

Hindsight is 20/20 and I'm sure from this point forward if someone like Jodi pops into their lives, they'll all be more proactive but they were Travis' friends not Jodi's and they just wanted her to go away.

I think her own friends did try to help her and her mother said some of her friends would call the house in the middle of the night about Jodi's behavior.

Bravo...that's putting it all in a nutshell perfectly. I'm sure that "the group" has learned a very valuable lesson in all of this and will be much hipper to spotting a psycho when they see one and what to do about it when it comes to one of their friends and or family members.