weekend discussion: discuss the trial here #154

[SCSam]

I think your experience shouldn't be the standard by which you judge whether or not something is racist.

I think white people, Asian people, Jewish people, Native American people, Latino people ... let's just say the whole world ... make excuses for their behavior at some time or another but to paint a brush over an entire race based upon one or two experiences is irresponsible.

I have been called the "N" word more times than I can count by white people. Do I think white people as a group are racist? No, I think the white people who called me the "N" word are racist. If I had the attitude that all white people are racist based upon the actions of a handful of people, I'd be as dumb as the people who called me names.

I take everyone as they come no matter what experience I've had with any particular group. I know when something is racist. Believe me. I don't go looking for it, I don't blame my behavior on it and I don't ever expect it. But when I do find it, I call it and you'd better be wearing protective padding when I do.

That's all I'm going to say on this topic on this day.

"Bad" folks come in all sizes, shapes and colors. I've been called a few names myself a time or three. When I feel like being ugly (as my grandmama used to say), I just call someone a d---head or s---face... across the board... turdos have no special color. JMOO, of course Sure hope it's OK for those words.

 

[katiedid2]

Practically made for each other!​

When was this photo taken?:seeya:

 

[womblek]

OK .. now this might be a little controversial, but that's fine. I have a little bit of an issue with how Jodi's behaviour was handled by the 'group', I understand that they didn't like her and LORD KNOWS they had good reason, but to simply yell at someone and tell them that you don't like them when they've just been dumped by your good friend is not the most compassionate way to deal with someone. I have an issue with that. Although I do understand the frustration that made Sky react that way.

Clearly Jodi was disturbed, I have never dealt with a person as extreme as Jodi, but I definitely have known a lot of girls who have gone completely loopy over a guy to the point of vindictiveness / stalking / tire slashing etc. And basically what was done was a kind of intervention, you know just all the rest of us (after discussing her behaviour) deciding on a combined message to drill into her head, and then began drilling it into her head! You know 'Stop all behaviour, you're making yourself crazy, you're making it worse, can you imagine what he thinks of you .. is that really how you want to be remembered AS THE BUNNY BOILER EX GIRLFRIEND?, stop writing about him, stop talking about him, stop thinking about him, behave your way out of this, etc etc etc' .... until they wake up to themselves.

Also Travis himself .. he kept sleeping with her! He knew more than anyone that it was bad, that she had it baaaaaaaaaad, did anyone in this group think of Jodi? Wouldn't a guy think 'maybe I should stop sleeping with this chick, because it's going to keep her in this unhealthy situation' .. I don't think that's too far fetched to think of men as capable of that, I've known many men who've stopped sleeping with women for just that reason.

It is the one thing that bothers me the most about Jodi's side of the story. That nobody had any compassion for her, and nobody went 'whoa, OK something's not right here, this is beyond the scope of normal, this girl has mental problems, we need to THINK CAREFULLY about how we handle this'.

bbm
I've seen a lot of heart ache over a lot of things, but I've never seen the vindictiveness involving stalking and tire slashing that you have. I like your take on the "intervention" needed in such situations. It's so rational.
I do have experience dealing with personality disordered people, both personally and professionally, and from those experiences I feel qualified to comment (not as an expert, just as an observer). People with personality disorders are like a tornado tearing through your life. Before you've figured out "what just happened" they've moved on to the next little storm. There's an old term in the field - "crazy makin' ". This is crazy makin' behavior. After each interaction I have with the individual I find myself questioning my own perception and reality. It takes a tremendous amount of energy to avoid being sucked into the storm. I have been unsuccessful in that fight many, many times.
I think the treatment JA received from Travis's "group" is evidence that more standard attempts to disentangle from her failed. She didn't get the message because her reality is skewed. (I mean really, if somebody says "leave me alone" do they really owe you an explanation?) She would never avail herself to intervention because she's right and everybody else is wrong.
I question the extent of the relationship between JA and Travis. We know that it meant a lot more to JA than it did to Travis. I think, though I'm not sure, that most of the testimony I've heard about their time together as a couple is based on what JA has said. JA is not a credible witness (or reporter, which was her role in the interviews with the psychologists) and therefore I'm going to disregard everything she's said. That leaves the physical evidence which, I believe, proves first degree premeditated murder.

 

[nic2200]

It seems to me that the only way they reacted to her was with mob rejection, meanwhile Travis decided to just continue to simply use her for sex. A little combined intelligence might have actually helped. It does bother me. The combination of factors combined with Jodi's 'mental problems' was a recipe for disaster, I am amazed that as a group they didn't all know this! They seem like an intelligent group of people to me.

I'm not sure anyone really knew the extent of Jodi's capabilities. I mean... a lot of people have a friend with a crazy ex-boyfriend/girlfriend. I don't think it's a common thought that the crazy ex will actually become violent. I think we usually see this as a bad influence or factor in our friend's life, but wouldn't mentally jump to the concept that their life was in danger.

As for Travis.... especially because of his religious circle that was unaware of his sexual activities, he probably kept falling back to Jodi for sex and as someone else pointed out, thinking with the wrong head. I do find myself leaning towards the idea that Travis really didn't agree to have Jodi come to his house on June 4 and she snuck in at 4:00 am and once she was there and offering the goods, he didn't turn it down. It seems like things were really escalating between the two of them at the end of May and he really was done with her. Even his blog posts convey a resolve to focus on dating the "right" woman and a potential spouse. It is hard to say though and the only one who knows for sure is no longer with us.

I just think it's highly likely that even though Travis and his friends thought Jodi was "crazy", the idea that she was capable of murder was not something they considered seriously or they all would have been more careful and proactive. I don't think it is unusual to not jump to that conclusion.

 

[Nore]

I think the "group" was composed of friends of Travis and by all admissions from the group, Jodi was stand-offish, cold and showed no interest in getting to know them.

I think if she had made more of an effort to return friendly overtures instead of focusing on getting him away from the group and pulling that sex kitten behavior at every opportunity, the group may have been more open and receptive to her.

There was an intervention for Travis and guess who was lurking in the hallway eavesdropping. :facepalm:

Travis got in over his head. I think he was conflicted between the sexual gratification and freedom he felt with Jodi and the knowledge that the relationship wasn't healthy and that he was moving away from what he really wanted in life. He could have turned her away and he could have said no but evidently whenever he would do that with any force, it resulted in her crawling through the doggie door or sleeping on his sofa in the middle of the night. When he finally made it crystal clear he was done ... we know what happened next.

Hindsight is 20/20 and I'm sure from this point forward if someone like Jodi pops into their lives, they'll all be more proactive but they were Travis' friends not Jodi's and they just wanted her to go away.

I think her own friends did try to help her and her mother said some of her friends would call the house in the middle of the night about Jodi's behavior.

--------------
Hi, I agree with you. I also think Travis had never met anyone like Jodi before and wasn't aware how to handle her. He may have kept seeing her because he was afraid of her! He should have notified authorities, got a restraining order etc. but he didnt realize that. Even when one is "onto" the person it is difficult to handle.I dont think Travis was aware of how vicious she is. What she did to him was a total shock, I see it in his face. She will meet her match in prison. IMO.:seeya:

 

[sammijo]

OK .. now this might be a little controversial, but that's fine. I have a little bit of an issue with how Jodi's behaviour was handled by the 'group', I understand that they didn't like her and LORD KNOWS they had good reason, but to simply yell at someone and tell them that you don't like them when they've just been dumped by your good friend is not the most compassionate way to deal with someone. I have an issue with that. Although I do understand the frustration that made Sky react that way.

Clearly Jodi was disturbed, I have never dealt with a person as extreme as Jodi, but I definitely have known a lot of girls who have gone completely loopy over a guy to the point of vindictiveness / stalking / tire slashing etc. And basically what was done was a kind of intervention, you know just all the rest of us (after discussing her behaviour) deciding on a combined message to drill into her head, and then began drilling it into her head! You know 'Stop all behaviour, you're making yourself crazy, you're making it worse, can you imagine what he thinks of you .. is that really how you want to be remembered AS THE BUNNY BOILER EX GIRLFRIEND?, stop writing about him, stop talking about him, stop thinking about him, behave your way out of this, etc etc etc' .... until they wake up to themselves.

Also Travis himself .. he kept sleeping with her! He knew more than anyone that it was bad, that she had it baaaaaaaaaad, did anyone in this group think of Jodi? Wouldn't a guy think 'maybe I should stop sleeping with this chick, because it's going to keep her in this unhealthy situation' .. I don't think that's too far fetched to think of men as capable of that, I've known many men who've stopped sleeping with women for just that reason.

It is the one thing that bothers me the most about Jodi's side of the story. That nobody had any compassion for her, and nobody went 'whoa, OK something's not right here, this is beyond the scope of normal, this girl has mental problems, we need to THINK CAREFULLY about how we handle this'.

On further thought, I wonder did anyone in their group feel like Jodi was part of the group or feel at all close to her, or close enough to say, "Hey, we need to talk."

We've heard from quite a few of Travis' friends that say she was disconnected whenever they were all out together, that she would act inappropriately, or that she was just plain 'ol strange.

In the video of him talking about having a gun to his head and her lounging on him like a cat, I was uncomfortable just watching that.

 

[ElleElle]

I hear ya. I know many men who would cut all ties with a woman he was done with. It has happened to me!

Why did Travis continue to have sex with Jodi? Maybe he really did love her and because of the peer pressure, he tried to let her go.

Just a thought...

I see where you're coming from, and I wonder if some of Sky Hughes' anger might have been compounded by the fact that she felt "played" by Jodi. From the beginning of T & J's "relationship", Jodi interjected herself between Sky and Chris and Travis.

I think they knew their friend to be somewhat of a player and still loved him for it, but thinking Jodi was a sweet girl looking to settle down, they didn't care for the way Travis treated her.

Therefore after finding out what Jodi was really like, her fuse blew.

Just a thought.

 

[SCSam]

Two reasons:

1. Gus was going at a different time than Travis, and
2. JA planned to murder Travis before he left for Cancun.

3rd... think Gus had a fiancee' believe it or not.

 

[Alexander family fan]

Her cell is larger than Travis's casket. :furious:

WOW. That just stopped me cold. WOW. Juan would love to have you assist him.

 

[chijojo]

3rd... think Gus had a fiancee' believe it or not.

i watched a video of him last night, he was on stage and had a woman come up on stage, he then asked her to marry him. IDK when the video was taken.

 

[garthmax]

I know Jodi found out about the girl TA was taking to Cancun after she killed him, but when?

 

[LambChop]

I knew someone would take my statements and twist them but such is life.
I know what ECT is used for. PTSD was not the subject. The topic was inexperienced Docs using tests to evaluate people. Mostly a waste of time. I do not hate Dr. D. She has very little to add so there is nothing to hate. <modsnip>

I have to disagree. Dr. D. is very experienced in her field. I believe the obvious difference that we can see is that the majority of Dr. D's experience was from research which makes her an excellent choice for Jodi's evaluation. Whereas Dr. Samuels and ALV's years of experience basically comes from treating clients. Once you start treating I would think the likelihood of them getting personally involved with someone they are evaluating would go up. I also do not think it is a stretch to imagine when first meeting Jodi everyone would like her because she appeared to present herself well. Clearly the approaches to Jodi by the defense experts was different than the State's approach. Dr. D's description of Jodi's disorder fits her like a glove. Considering how many experts defense had to go through to get someone to testify on Jodi's behalf is also suspect. It is apparent ALV was not given all the information she would have needed to do a proper evaluation. Let's face it one does not have to be over 50 years-old to tell when someone is lying. jmo

 

[DeAnnaMisrahi]

Her cell is larger than Travis's casket. :furious:

I said the SAME thing when she said that. I was hoping that JM would have said it, too. But, in a sly Juan Martinez kind of way. lol. Something like, "Your cell is larger than Travis's coffin, yes or no?"

 

[ChinaBlue]

I look at her this way. She is young in-experienced but smart. Her job is to do everything by the book, spend the allowed amount of time and get the heck out. Make no mistakes, keep everything squeeky clean, administer some worthless tests and let the prosecutor mop it up at trial. This Dr. was not out to do any deep well thought out analysis....just do her job.

bbm

Just curious here. Would you please tell me why you consider these tests "worthless" and supply your education/authority to arrive at this conclusion? I have no experience as neither a practitioner nor even a dilettante, so I would appreciate some further edification regarding this part of your statement.

 

[PrincessSezMe]

WOW! My Max is a Pom too... in summer he keeps a Teddy Bear cut and is always so precious.. but then all my fur babies are... lol

My fur baby (one of them). This is Max.

 

[chijojo]

I can't remember if the reason for that text calling JA a psycho and telling her how evil she is was ever put out there. Something to do with her not telling him who someone was??? I'm very confused. Does anyone know what TA was talking about in that text??

 

[cricket49]

I see where you're coming from, and I wonder if some of Sky Hughes' anger might have been compounded by the fact that she felt "played" by Jodi. From the beginning of T & J's "relationship", Jodi interjected herself between Sky and Chris and Travis.

I think they knew their friend to be somewhat of a player and still loved him for it, but thinking Jodi was a sweet girl looking to settle down, they didn't care for the way Travis treated her.

Therefore after finding out what Jodi was really like, her fuse blew.

Just a thought.

ITA

Chris Hughes tweeted yesterday that Jodi lied to them about how Travis treated her. That was why they sent the email to Travis.

Once they knew what Jodi was, they came to his defense and wanted her out of their house and his life.

Chris said Sky called Jodi a sociopath years before he saw it.

I think this is normal that some people can read and see through people more than others. Intuition maybe? Or maybe the women could see through Jodi more than the men. You know, the men were blinded by her looks and body.

When this trial is over and all the emails, texts and journals are revealed, I believe we will be shocked at what Travis and his friends knew about her.

 

[spcagrl]

I've always found this bit a tad bit disturbing if not, confusing.

According to Gus Searcy, Jodi phoned him hours after murdering Travis on June 4th. He testified that she told him 'Travis is dead'. Now.....why didn't he mention it to anyone in Cancun? Wouldn't people have missed and conversed about Travis expected yet missing presence that weekend? Or is Gus just bull----ing? And if so then, why?

Ha! Gus is always BSing, IMO! I did see him in an interview and he said the trip was split, so he was on the trip right before Travis......according to him, anyway. I believe I saw, though, a copy of Travises online appointment book, and there was a picture of Gus right there on the night he was killed,,I think Gus was supposed to have been on that conference call that night........kind of sad that NO ONE thought it was strange that he did not participate, I feel somehow sure he was very dependable about stuff like that.

Well, also being the weasely like he is, he stepped all around the phone call, which did not take place on June 4, though he really strived to make it appear to be so. He has never been pinned down on it, but the best speculation says it happened Thursday June 10 ( I think). So much to try and remember about this case!

 

[Alexander family fan]

i watched a video of him last night, he was on stage and had a woman come up on stage, he then asked her to marry him. IDK when the video was taken.

Did you see the video of his own young daughter having to sue him just to get her furniture from him? It was scrape of the bucket sleeze, scary. It made me know what Chris Hughes was referring to when he said that Gus had a reputation for seeking the limelight. I always thought that it was Gus with the big idea to give Jodi the Helio phone that records, and wink at her about getting Travis on tape. He said he was advising her that Travis was just using her for sex while he was openly courting the good Mormon girls that he thought were good enough to marry and she wasn't ever going to be for him. He was very jealous of the Hughes and Travis it seemed to me. He likely would have loved to get something to bring Travis down a notch or two, in his sick mind. The interesting thing about Gus advising Jodi she was being used for sex is that clearly it was no secret in PPL that Travis being a virgin was just part of his schict, no one really believed it. Or cared. http://youtu.be/Y0ehd7zVwvQ

 

[wasnt_me]

Well, I am pretty sure that this Cancun trip is company wide. Many of the PPL recruitment materials discuss this trip to Cancun as a reward for thier most consistent salespeople and they emphasize the trip is fully paid for and is not that hard to achieve. I don't think that the company wide trip originated with the Hughes, I just think they made a really big deal out of it as recruiters. I could be wrong but if you look around at other Teams in PPL, the Cancun trip is a big deal with all of them.

And how would it look if someone else, not Jodi, was on Travis' arm for the trip? Jodi would look like a fool to the ppl people.