weekend discussion: discuss the trial here #154

[DebinGA]

I hear ya. I know many men who would cut all ties with a woman he was done with. It has happened to me!

Why did Travis continue to have sex with Jodi? Maybe he really did love her and because of the peer pressure, he tried to let her go.

Just a thought...

One of DrD's revelations was that in all the 1000s of back and forths between TA and JA that she'd read there were only a couple of instances where Travis invited Jodi to come over. I think Jodi testified to some kind of morse code (or some such) symbol in his texts that meant "the coast is clear, come over" but why wouldn't he just type that...at least more than a couple of times if the sex happened as often as Jodi claims? I'm with womblek's idea above of discounting everything Jodi's ever said at this point.

 

[Mellinyce]

snipped for space...

So, yea. That ain't happening for this chica right here! What about you?

Clicked on ur blog..Hilarious!!!:floorlaugh::floorlaugh: maybe 46 could be...Grinding with a potential new love interest only hours after "doing something very bad" to her ex-lover is totally a way to return to normalcy.

hehe

 

[Mrs G Norris]

I'm not sure anyone really knew the extent of Jodi's capabilities. I mean... a lot of people have a friend with a crazy ex-boyfriend/girlfriend. I don't think it's a common thought that the crazy ex will actually become violent. I think we usually see this as a bad influence or factor in our friend's life, but wouldn't mentally jump to the concept that their life was in danger.

As for Travis.... especially because of his religious circle that was unaware of his sexual activities, he probably kept falling back to Jodi for sex and as someone else pointed out, thinking with the wrong head. I do find myself leaning towards the idea that Travis really didn't agree to have Jodi come to his house on June 4 and she snuck in at 4:00 am and once she was there and offering the goods, he didn't turn it down. It seems like things were really escalating between the two of them at the end of May and he really was done with her. Even his blog posts convey a resolve to focus on dating the "right" woman and a potential spouse. It is hard to say though and the only one who knows for sure is no longer with us.

I just think it's highly likely that even though Travis and his friends thought Jodi was "crazy", the idea that she was capable of murder was not something they considered seriously or they all would have been more careful and proactive. I don't think it is unusual to not jump to that conclusion.

I agree, they certainly didn't think she was ACTUALLY capable of murder! You just wouldn't! I think the fact that he was involved in a religion where sex before marriage was considered a sin was a huge factor, because it limited his ability to talk openly about everything that had been going on .. in that way he was compromised, which added to his vulnerability.

 

[sacrablue]

The one issue that troubles me about this case is JA was understood by her lover Travis and her friends as being different. She did things that were not normal. Yet she was used as a three hole wonder.
Who is responsible here? Did Travis ever meet JA's parents? Was anyone ever contacted when JA's behavior became symptomatic? JA was a perfect storm ready to erupt having a relationship go terribly wrong.
To sit back after the fact and call her a monster and all the names I have heard doesn't solve this problem.

 

[kscornfed]

That's spot on. I'd only add that imo as long as Travis was alive, she couldn't stop herself from keeping track of him through any means necessary, or at least obsessing over what he might be doing and with whom. She couldn't stand the not knowing. She couldn't rest until he was no longer doing anything at all, and once she solved that problem it was full-speed ahead with no regret or guilt whatsoever.

YES!!!! this is what i think too. she didn't even make it 2 months away from him. i think it just built up to the point where she decided the only way to end her OWN pain was to kill HIM. and i don't think she felt remorse at all---i think she was relieved when it was done.

 

[SyraKelly]

When JW and JA recreated the photo (of JA and her sister in response to the bent finger issue) and JW allowed JA's arm to drape over her shoulder, I recoiled. I kept thinking how far I'd go to avoid having any physical contact with her or even to acknowledge her as a person. That's how horrified I was by the uncensored photographs.

No way would I let that chick touch me or whisper her hot breath into my ear.

"You're good at scribbling, write me a note." That's what I would tell her.

But she has to show the jury,she believes in her client.I am sure JW deep inside knows just what JA is capable of!

 

[PrincessSezMe]

I understand the anger and frustration I really do .. I just also thing there are ways of 'dampening down' a situation, and it seems to me that it wasn't done in a combined way. People didn't see that she was actually disturbed and treat her with kid gloves. And yes, you're right .. she had no connection with them and it wasn't their job.

I totally understand what you're saying. But how could they have known what they were dealing with? It's not like she had a mental illness, she is personality disordered. Big difference. I think they were as blindsided by what she is as Travis was. Nobody knew how dangerous she was. They just knew she was "off", and that they wanted her to go away.

Her own parents didn't even know what they were dealing with. These people were virtual strangers until she came into Travis' life. I don't see how they could have changed the outcome of what happened.

But I do see your point :seeya:.

 

[Mrs G Norris]

I see where you're coming from, and I wonder if some of Sky Hughes' anger might have been compounded by the fact that she felt "played" by Jodi. From the beginning of T & J's "relationship", Jodi interjected herself between Sky and Chris and Travis.

I think they knew their friend to be somewhat of a player and still loved him for it, but thinking Jodi was a sweet girl looking to settle down, they didn't care for the way Travis treated her.

Therefore after finding out what Jodi was really like, her fuse blew.

Just a thought.

Well let's face it Jodi knows how to provoke people beyond the point of compassion that's for sure!

 

[chijojo]

Did you see the video of his own young daughter having to sue him just to get her furniture from him? It was scrape of the bucket sleeze, scary. It made me know what Chris Hughes was referring to when he said that Gus had a reputation for seeking the limelight. I always thought that it was Gus with the big idea to give Jodi the Helio phone that records, and wink at her about getting Travis on tape. He said he was advising her that Travis was just using her for sex while he was openly courting the good Mormon girls that he thought were good enough to marry and she wasn't ever going to be for him. He was very jealous of the Hughes and Travis it seemed to me. He likely would have loved to get something to bring Travis down a notch or two, in his sick mind. http://youtu.be/Y0ehd7zVwvQ

Great post. I thought he was very slimey the first time I saw him. This just confirms it.

 

[YESorNO]

http://blogs.phoenixnewtimes.com/valleyfever/2009/07/retarded_german_killer_rudi_ap.php

I gave a 90 min interview yesterday that had me and the reporter in tears. Yes I'm resting and yes our case is up in my face right now and instead of stuffing my feelings,down, I speak out. Otherwise I sincerely might lose my damn mind.

Dear Kathy,

I'm so sorry that you have to go through all this. I'm so glad you spoke the truth at this hearing. Who cares if he's "retarded"!!!! He wasn't "retarded" enough- look at what they did to your sister!!!!! Put all the murderers in space- on a planet and let them kill themselves. They don't deserve to be living amongst law-abiding citizens at all. I can't stand the "law" somtimes.

I'm not a proponent of the death-penalty. I don't think that anyone should have the right to kill anyone else, BUT I have been gradually changing my mind lately. Being on this website and seeing the trials of OJ, that other thing in Florida, and JA have had such an affect on what I now consider, right or wrong. Boy, have I changed in my 63 years on this earth :furious:

Anyway, Kathy, please take care and I really appreciate all your posts :blushing:

 

[Renee110]

I knew it was his, but why didn't she take it with her?

A new favorite quote from the great Jessica Lange on American Horror Story fits here: "I've long stopped wondering why the mad do mad things".

 

[DebinGA]

I can't remember if the reason for that text calling JA a psycho and telling her how evil she is was ever put out there. Something to do with her not telling him who someone was??? I'm very confused. Does anyone know what TA was talking about in that text??

IDK, but other than the one phone sex audio, iirc none of their numerous phone conversations were available to provide "context". I know times have changed, but surely they talked more than they typed.

 

[momof7]

I don't know who that smart poster is either, but I do recall hearing that theory several times. There had to have been a precipitant event in my mind as well.

I've always been of the opinion that it must have been something that struck to close to the carefully-constructed image Jodi was trying to present. Narcissists can go into a rage, particularly when their artificial "self" comes under challenge or someone threatens to expose the facade as a lie. They will sometimes see that threat in life or death terms, given that they identify their physical existence with the false persona they project to others.

Travis might very well have threatened to reveal something about her to others involving theft of money, perhaps of property like the ring, or something else that we know nothing about and never will unless she admits it (and at this point, I won't believe anything she says without corroboration.) I could see that sending her into a blind narcissistic rage. She may well have been seething for some time, but those last phone calls on May 26th were the coup-de-gras in my view. He might have discovered something important missing -- it could have been the ring. He might have confronted her about it that night and told her they were through.

One thing though -- I don't think he knew she was coming. If the precipitant cause was the ring, she was certainly devious enough to consider bringing it with her and putting it somewhere in the house, so that in the event Travis had actually "outed" her as a thief, she would be able to point to its eventual discovery and say, "see, I didn't take it." That might have been another support for her "alibi" in her own mind -- she knew very well that his friends were going to point the finger straight at her, so every little bit of evidence she could use to dispel their stories about her would have been useful to her.

I can't see that she would have gone to all of the trouble of the rental car, gas cans, hair dye, no cell records in AZ, just to hope that Travis wouldn't mention to someone that she was coming. She could not have taken that chance given what she had in mind. She thought she would get away with killing him.

:cow:

See, this is why I war with myself about him knowing she was coming. Add in 2 months worth of car payments.

Its really hard. I see very good reasons for both him knowing or not knowing. Maybe he wanted it in the mail and she decided to hand deliver.

I wish at some point we would know the truth, or at least know 'more' about that day. It just feels like there is a piece missing.

K

 

[nic2200]

The one issue that troubles me about this case is JA was understood by her lover Travis and her friends as being different. She did things that were not normal. Yet she was used as a three hole wonder.
Who is responsible here? Did Travis ever meet JA's parents? Was anyone ever contacted when JA's behavior became symptomatic? JA was a perfect storm ready to erupt having a relationship go terribly wrong.
To sit back after the fact and call her a monster and all the names I have heard doesn't solve this problem.

No one in Jodi's former life had ever met Travis AFAIK. Her parents said they had never met him and really didn't know a lot about him. I'm not sure what you were expecting Travis or his friends to do in this situation. Jodi is a grown adult and is solely responsible for her actions. It isn't everyone else's job to make sure she doesn't make a decision to brutally end someone's life. And just because she exhibited signs of mental illness, does not mean she is forced to brutally murder another human being. She did that of her own volition.

 

[sacrablue]

bbm

Just curious here. Would you please tell me why you consider these tests "worthless" and supply your education/authority to arrive at this conclusion? I have no experience as neither a practitioner nor even a dilettante, so I would appreciate some further edification regarding this part of your statement.

You are asking people questions that have psychological problems. Their brain is not wired like yours or mind. They are not stable, have chemicals out of wack, thoughts that are hard to process. They could lie on the test, they can answer questions to remain all is ok, they can try to controll the Doctor and on and on. The only way to understand these people if possible is communication, time, compassion, and experience and a lot of it.

 

[katiedid2]

I find JW difficult to watch and listen to. I feel she doesn't present herself in the best way, Nurmi might be slow and draw words out, but he does come across as a bit more professional than JW even with the teenage way he chooses to sit in his chair. JW's actions and voice reminds me of those girls in high school who thought they were really smart, but were just average, and thought they were the coolest girl around, but were just another girl. She may be a great person, it just doesn't come across that way to me in court.

What's with her putting her hands on her Hip! Never seen any attorney do that before?
I've noticed her do that a lot.

 

[ElleElle]

This is true. Maybe the sex was not as often as everyone makes it out to be.

She would come over uninvited most of the time imo.

She slithered her way to give Travis what men want the most. (at that age anyways).

One of DrD's revelations was that in all the 1000s of back and forths between TA and JA that she'd read there were only a couple of instances where Travis invited Jodi to come over. I think Jodi testified to some kind of morse code (or some such) symbol in his texts that meant "the coast is clear, come over" but why wouldn't he just type that...at least more than a couple of times if the sex happened as often as Jodi claims? I'm with womblek's idea above of discounting everything Jodi's ever said at this point.

 

[Numbers]

I have to disagree. Dr. D. is very experienced in her field. I believe the obvious difference that we can see is that the majority of Dr. D's experience was from research which makes her an excellent choice for Jodi's evaluation. Whereas Dr. Samuels and ALV's years of experience basically comes from treating clients. Once you start treating I would think the likelihood of them getting personally involved with someone they are evaluating would go up. I also do not think it is a stretch to imagine when first meeting Jodi everyone would like her because she appeared to present herself well. Clearly the approaches to Jodi by the defense experts was different than the State's approach. Dr. D's description of Jodi's disorder fits her like a glove. Considering how many experts defense had to go through to get someone to testify on Jodi's behalf is also suspect. It is apparent ALV was not given all the information she would have needed to do a proper evaluation. Let's face it one does not have to be over 50 years-old to tell when someone is lying. jmo

Everyone who graduates from medical school is called "Doctor." But there's huge difference between #1 and #297. Dr. D was obviously closer to #1 than #297. ALV was more like #296.

 

[YESorNO]

Ditto. The prosecution never has it on easy street unless the jury sees the truth and comes back with the right verdict. Think of the Pinellas 12 in Casey Anthony trial. I thought Jeff Ashton and Linda Drane Burdick hit it out of the ballpark. And the jury said not guilty? Oh my. Don't ever think the prosecution has it made. Besides, JM is quick on his feet, brilliant in his speech, smart as a tack. But the jurors are human and some come with biases.

(sorry, I'm pages behind on reading posts)

BBM

That's because the :furiouswords I cannot express here or I will be banned) jury stated that they didn't know how Cayley died- what!!! they needed to be there themselves???? maybe pictures???
Well, now we have pictures and lots of evidence- what will this jurys excuse be now??? I would like to know!!! :furious:

 

[SyraKelly]

OMG, are you serious, JA is going to give a statement. Is there a time limit on how long she can speak?

I do think she gets a chance to say something before she is sentence.Correct me if I am wrongs lawyers & I will delete my post.But every trial I have seen the judge always asks if they have something to say!!

It says here-she does get to speak!
http://www.pcao.pima.gov/criminaljusticeprocess.aspx