Were Caylee's Remains Moved?

[Bev]

Right, Indigo, the HDE took place in the car. I don't know if the trunk was sufficiently anaerobic in and of itself, but I would think that it would be. If a body is wrapped in a blanket it is considered an anaerobic condition. I don't think that the article makes much sense - all decomposing bodies produce compound gases, not just those that are wrapped, so this doesn't really mean anything. What the report is saying is that the level of chloroform is at the same peak that their data base recognizes as that of anaerobic conditions.

edited again - I thought you were quoting an article from media. However, my remarks still stand.

 

[Trailerparkgirl]

I believe she died at the A's home, Casey loaded her into the trunk, after all she had a big date with TonE and Blockbusters, she returned a couple days later, removed her from the trunk, laid her in the backyard, tried to dig a hole, scrapped that Ideal bagged her up and dumped her down the road and went on her merry way

in a nutshell as NG would say
i agree with your theory...

i voted that KC acted alone

 

[weasel]

If you take a moment above a read what Fox News has wriiten, it says that soil was also found in the trunk of the car. So that goes to show she had the body hidden someplace else.


I wonder if the Cadaver dogs sniffed under the A's house??


Wonder if the Dogs were taken back to the A's backyard they could detect anything this late in the game.

I voted Casey did it alone. I think the soil in the trunk of the car came from the A's backyard. I saw on one of the news shows (NG I think) they were talking about finding a hole next to the swimming pool that had been filled back in. I believe Casey borrowed the shovel, dug the hole, then changed her mind about burying the body there.

 

[bananarama]

I believe she died at the A's home, Casey loaded her into the trunk, after all she had a big date with TonE and Blockbusters, she returned a couple days later, removed her from the trunk, laid her in the backyard, tried to dig a hole, scrapped that Ideal bagged her up and dumped her down the road and went on her merry way

What Poppy said, although I think she initially put her in the laundry bag, and when that started to leak, she added the plastic bag.

 

[Tinsel]

Weeds had grown up through the remains, so they were there for a long time.

but I agree they were in the backyard, garage, car, and other areas for a little while. Dogs can smell even a few molecules of cadaverine (the hormone the trained dogs smell). And cadaverine takes just a few hours to occur after death.

:chicken:

 

[MADJGNLAW]

From Casey's actions, there is no way I could believe that it was an accident. I do agree with what Mark Fuhrman says about the remains being moved. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure that one out. The cadaver dogs hit in the back yard and soil was found in the trunk. I don't believe anyone else killed Cayleeeither. I think Casey acted alone and maybe she started out to make it look like an accident and got so much pleasure from her actions that she did the unthinkable and killed her child in cold blood, maybe left her alone in the tub after drugging her or dumped her in the pool after drugging her. Maybe she felt once Caylee was asleep she would feel no pain and sealed the murder with a kiss...the heart sticker. I feel Caylee died at the Anthony's home. I think Casey was trying to figure out where to bury Caylee and layed her down in the yard as she tried to dig a hole and must of broken a nail, Hmm...wonder if they found any acrylic behind. Anyway, she then decided it was to much work and put Caylee in the trunk for a few days and then dumped them in the "area" they were found not the exact spot, or the abandoned house...Then used Tony's car before or after Tony was out of town, came back for remains in his Jeep, I say it was either June 17th or July 3rd and moved Caylee to the spot where she was found in Dec. When she got reported and arrested she had no way to move the body herself, that is when the second person comes into the picture. I suspect she gave Lee enough clues to where the body was and when out on bond he got the exact location and moved Caylee where the 4 young guys seen a hole in the ground.

Then Lee or someone else came behind to to check on the remains while she was in jail and moved them when they knew TES was searching the area (Remember how angry Lee got in Nov when TES came back to search and was telling people not to support TES?) I would say that this is when the body was moved to a hidden location and then put back the early part of Dec. That would explain the plant growth in the skeleton. I believe that once the test come back the soil samples are going to be very telling. I feel that soil from the yard will be detected in both Casey's and Tony's Jeep, I also feel dirt from another area close to the crime scene and the crime scene itself. I also feel that back in Dec someone put the remains back close to the road so that someone would find them hopefully RK since he did make the three calls in Aug to cause resonable doubt . The first three times that Roy called he gave a different color descriptionof the bag, and that could be very possible with all the trash out there, but he did give the description to a white item that was seen in the P.I.'s video as well at the crime scene. Let's not forget the 4 young men that had found a hole and some rope and so fourth, but they couldn't pull up what was buried, LE then told them not to contact the media and told them it was a bomb....big difference a bomb from a rope, a hole in the ground and some PVC piping I think. JMO

One thing I question is who owns the green truck that the neighbour saw Casey in? It could be that the owner of that truck may know more than what is being said. I think all the visits back to the house after the 20th were to get clothe for herself or maybe even replace the pooh blanket.

 

[Tinsel]

I also agree with the forensic specialist (Dr.Purpur) that there is no reason to put tape on a dead body. The tape points to premeditated murder--because you would not be able to remove the tape for a kid that age, without the kid going running to grandma and grandma for protection later. That's an attack.

For those who counter with "unless she was staging a kidnapping" you'd have to tell me why she would include a blanket, toys, and a heart sticker (and leave her right down the street) if she was staging a kidnapping.

I don't think she thought the police would ever be called. Otherwise, why attempt to put the body in the backyard, or right down the street.

I do think the tape will have trace DNA, skin cells, and that's why it is taking so long to get results. But I'm not sure trace DNA is admissable evidence.

:chicken:

 

[Indigo]

From Casey's actions, there is no way I could believe that it was an accident. I do agree with what Mark Fuhrman says about the remains being moved. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure that one out. The cadaver dogs hit in the back yard and soil was found in the trunk. I don't believe anyone else killed Cayleeeither. I think Casey acted alone and maybe she started out to make it look like an accident and got so much pleasure from her actions that she did the unthinkable and killed her child in cold blood, maybe left her alone in the tub after drugging her or dumped her in the pool after drugging her. Maybe she felt once Caylee was asleep she would feel no pain and sealed the murder with a kiss...the heart sticker. I feel Caylee died at the Anthony's home. I think Casey was trying to figure out where to bury Caylee and layed her down in the yard as she tried to dig a hole and must of broken a nail, Hmm...wonder if they found any acrylic behind. Anyway, she then decided it was to much work and put Caylee in the trunk for a few days and then dumped them in the "area" they were found not the exact spot, or the abandoned house...Then used Tony's car before or after Tony was out of town, came back for remains in his Jeep, I say it was either June 17th or July 3rd and moved Caylee to the spot where she was found in Dec. When she got reported and arrested she had no way to move the body herself, that is when the second person comes into the picture. I suspect she gave Lee enough clues to where the body was and when out on bond he got the exact location and moved Caylee where the 4 young guys seen a hole in the ground.

Then Lee or someone else came behind to to check on the remains while she was in jail and moved them when they knew TES was searching the area (Remember how angry Lee got in Nov when TES came back to search and was telling people not to support TES?) I would say that this is when the body was moved to a hidden location and then put back the early part of Dec. That would explain the plant growth in the skeleton. I believe that once the test come back the soil samples are going to be very telling. I feel that soil from the yard will be detected in both Casey's and Tony's Jeep, I also feel dirt from another area close to the crime scene and the crime scene itself. I also feel that back in Dec someone put the remains back close to the road so that someone would find them hopefully RK since he did make the three calls in Aug to cause resonable doubt . The first three times that Roy called he gave a different color descriptionof the bag, and that could be very possible with all the trash out there, but he did give the description to a white item that was seen in the P.I.'s video as well at the crime scene. Let's not forget the 4 young men that had found a hole and some rope and so fourth, but they couldn't pull up what was buried, LE then told them not to contact the media and told them it was a bomb....big difference a bomb from a rope, a hole in the ground and some PVC piping I think. JMO

One thing I question is who owns the green truck that the neighbour saw Casey in? It could be that the owner of that truck may know more than what is being said. I think all the visits back to the house after the 20th were to get clothe for herself or maybe even replace the pooh blanket.

ITA about the tub and the soil samples, MADJGNLAW.

Looking over the transcripts of the 911 calls, I'm fascinated by RK's description of the gray bag as "like a pool cover." The area he described it in was apart from the round white object. Could he have been describing a pool cover storage bag? This could have blended in with the backyard surroundings--especially if stashed in the storage container by the pool. Just a thought...

From 911 call:

<snipped>

"...I went down and there was, behind one of the trees was a gray, vinyl-like bag, like a pool cover or something like that and it looked rather suspicious..."

http://media.myfoxorlando.com/photo...ts/1/lg/CF08-15606_disc_3121-3172_Page_28.htm

 

[radio]

Site up???

 

[Ames]

I think she was in the backyard a couple days and then she put her in the trunk for a week or so and then dumped her where she was found.

I thought that at first. But, I read about the hole that had been dug in the backyard, and it was only 12 inches wide and 5 inches deep. (Not big enough for even a child's body). I believe that she may have laid Caylee's body on the ground, (that is why the cadaver dogs hit there), and had started to dig the hole in the backyard to place Caylee in it, (possibly using the neighbor's shovel) , but then thought that it was more trouble than it was worth...and decided to dump her in the woods.

 

[waltzingmatilda]

YES! ..to answer the question.. The remains could have been and prolly were somewhere else first, IMO. I couldn't vote cause this was not an option.....

 

[aafromaa]

I originally thought that kc put Caylee's body in the trunk to start with, then attempted to bury her in the backyard, found digging too difficult, put her back in the trunk, drove down the road, and discarded her in the woods.

But I can't get past the fact that GA did not smell the odor from the car the day of the gas cans incident. It seems to me that the time the body was in the car had to take place after that - although there was some reason that KC didn't want him in that trunk I don't think the odor was there yet.

I still think the body was in the trunk for a brief time shortly after Caylee died but then removed before decomposition began and then returned to the trunk sometime after the gas cans thing. I can't really say I understand the 2.6 days - I get a little confused as to whether this means the body was decomposing in the trunk for 2.6 days or whether the body was in the trunk when it had reached 2.6 days of decomposition. And I don't know if that's 2.6 days from death or from onset of decomposition or whether decomposition begins immediately upon death.

Anyway, I think as others have said that there may have been an interruption of the decomposition - but I don't know whether that interruption was immediately after death or one day after or what. However, I am beginning to think that the interruption was more than being wrapped in plastic or anything along those lines. And beginning to wonder if KC might have had an opportunity to stash the body in a freezer - at her parents? at her boyfriend's? at her friends? Freezing the body would have thrown off any way to use the rate of decomposition to determine a timeline. And if the body was frozen when it was returned to the vehicle, it could have spent more time there before it began to create an odor.

Any thoughts about this possibility?

 

[tfrohning]

This is just a Theory(one of my many)
Casey killed Caylee in fit a rage in the car after the fight(the 15th) with her mom.
Put Caylee in the trunk spent the night with TL. On the 16th went back to the house and was going to put Caylee in the pool to make it look like accident in the pool(that was why the ladder was down) For some reason she didn't think that would work and try to bury Caylee in the backyard. That was to much energy. She drove around with Caylee for 2.6 days and panic and dump her little girl in the wood. However i think she dump her farther back than where Caylee was found. I do think someone tip off the PI because it was time for the remains to be found. I aslo think it might been moved closer so it could be found. Or has in earlier post the water moved it closer to the road. Just A theory

 

[david918]

Bolded by me:

The only problem with that scenario is that the forensic evidence does not back that up. The report from Oakridge stated that the levels of decomposition in the trunk were consistent with a body that has been decomposing for 2.6 days. Not 2, not 3, not 4 but 2.6.

Whatever death scenario you subscribe to, you must fit in the fact that 2.6 days after death, the body was out of the trunk of the Pontiac. If she moved it after the original dump, there would have been a vehicle out there that smelled even worse than the Sunfire. That vehicle hasn't been shown to exist.

If the timeline is true about the 24th and the gas can incident is when GA didnt smell the decomp then it leads me to believe the death could have been on 16th and the body was put somewhere other than the final location or the car. I think the body went into that car trunk right before the gas can incident or shortly there after and taken directly to the final spot it was found. The car was abandoned on the 27th after KC made a trip by the house for groceries ... the body could have even been transported that day. What KC didnt plan on was the mess of a decomp body and all those fluids leaking through that bag and settling down into the fender to continue smelling. From what I have read there was decomp down in the fender well and if so then KC may not have noticed to clean that up and could explain why it continued to smell. I agree with "why move it back closer to the house"?

 

[Bev]

I don't think the timeline of the 24th is the correct timeline - the evidence points to a timeline of death between 1 and 4 on the 16th and disposal between 1 and 4 on the 18th.

 

[Cerenity2u]

Bolded by me.

This is a common misconception. The report says the decomp in the trunk was consistent with human decomp of 2.6 days. True, she could have been in the trunk from the moment of death until 2.6 days. Or, she could have been stashed somewhere and put in the trunk at the point when she had been dead for 2.6 days.

See the difference.

ITA. We know cadaver dogs hit in the backyard, whether Caylee was buried back there or just laid back there for a short period of time remains to be seen IMO. We know Caylee was in the back of that trunk, but again, for how long? Air sample results are 2.6 days, this tells me at 2.6 days after death, Caylee's remains were in that trunk and removed from that trunk. I believe she went from the trunk straight to the site were the remains were found. Everything else inbetween speculation IMO.

 

[EasyGruuvin]

I speculate that she was in the back yard for a period of time then the trunk , then moved to a different wooded area . During the searches she was moved to the area she was found in by a family member while Casey was in jail. Problem is we may never know if and when she was moved from where to where. MOO

 

[Mom of Five]

That is what the dogs and the physical evidence say, too.

Anyone aiding Casey would have had the gas and the smarts to take Caylee further from Casey's parent's house. She didn't have help.

IMO

neither the physical evidence or the dogs point to the body staying in the back yard for a couple of days and the trunk for a week.

The stain is from a body at 2.6 days of decomposition. KC could have bagged the body at 2.6 days or disposed of it. She might have laid the body down in the backyard or dumped water from the spotbot used to clean the trunk in backyard.
This is my theory;
I don't think she left the body in the yard for any length of time, way too risky. When she realized it was too hard to dig a hole she put the body in the trunk. I think that the body was in the trunk on the day she saw George but that it was contained in the garbage bag. I also think the cadaver hits come from dirty water from a spot bot used to clean the trunk. If you recall a spot bot was taken from the A home with one of the search warrants.

 

[Cerenity2u]

neither the physical evidence or the dogs point to the body staying in the back yard for a couple of days and the trunk for a week.

The stain is from a body at 2.6 days of decomposition. KC could have bagged the body at 2.6 days or disposed of it. She might have laid the body down in the backyard or dumped water from the spotbot used to clean the trunk in backyard.
This is my theory;
I don't think she left the body in the yard for any length of time, way too risky. When she realized it was too hard to dig a hole she put the body in the trunk. I think that the body was in the trunk on the day she saw George but that it was contained in the garbage bag. I also think the cadaver hits come from dirty water from a spot bot used to clean the trunk. If you recall a spot bot was taken from the A home with one of the search warrants.

Above bold by me.
Is your theory that GA or CA used the spot bot to clean the car on July 15, the day they brought it home? Or do you think KC cleaned it before it was impounded? I'm thinking if an attempt was made to clean the trunk at any time with a spot bot, why did it smell so strong even after LE impounded it? Also, if GA or CA tried to shampoo the spot, LE would have noticed a fresh shampoo, and forensics would have backed that up IMO. I'm not disclaiming your theory, I think it makes sense, just trying to iron out some of what I think may be kinks in the scenario.

 

[leophoenix]

My vote would be:
She killed her on the 15th probably in the car
Carried her around for a few days in the trunk
Borrowed the shovel from the neighbor and put the shovel in the trunk with the body
Maybe the shovel is what punctured the bag
Tried to bury her but either was too lazy or the smell was overwhelming
Throws the shovel in the trunk leaving dirt particles
Tries to clean up the shovel by washing it off.
Smell in the backyard.