Were TH and/or Kyron really at Skyline on Friday, June 4?

[Calliope]

There were (at least) 3 other people in the photo Terri took of Kyron standing in front of his project; there's one other photo that includes another little boy's project. I think between those four people at least, LE would be able to determine that Kyron was present in school that morning.

 

[kathryann]

I think it's possible that something happened Thurs. evening, in the home.

Or maybe BEFORE school after BD left for work. I have not seen anything that states they were seen TOGETHER.

 

[raeann]

LE is only going by eye witness statements correct? I guess I just feel that maybe the days may have been mixed up. I have done it myself thinking x was here at work and I saw them only to find out they had been out sick all day. And a day when such commotion was going on, I think it would be very easy to think you saw someone.

BUT.....if it had been any other day.....the other parents would not have been inside the building touring the classrooms. MOST of the kids would have just come to school on the bus, and others just dropped off for their usual school day. The very fact that they were THERE in school that day makes them sure what day it was. The IB expo was only set up for that one morning, they could not have seen him AT the expo on any other day at all.

jmo

 

[captivagrl]

There were (at least) 3 other people in the photo Terri took of Kyron standing in front of his project; there's one other photo that includes another little boy's project. I think between those four people at least, LE would be able to determine that Kyron was present in school that morning.

Isn't it possible though that LE knows he wasn't in school that morning? That maybe the others in the photo said it was from setting up Thurs? It would explain why LE knew other children were not in danger.

 

[raeann]

Isn't it possible though that LE knows he wasn't in school that morning? That maybe the others in the photo said it was from setting up Thurs? It would explain why LE knew other children were not in danger.

There have been at least TWO teachers plus the PTA president and at least TWO kids who stated that they saw him on the morning of the 4th. Those are the ones that we know about FOR SURE and without question. It does not meet the test of logic that all of them would be lying or even mistaken about what they saw.

 

[DMansMom]

So, to play off what you are saying and what KariKae wrote in the post above yours, when Det. Gates said in the press conference on Friday, June 19th that ""Terri is the last known person to have seen Kyron alive before he disappeared," (http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504083_162-20008192-504083.html?tag=contentMain;contentBody), that LE don't necessarily think that Kyron ever made it school that Friday morning? Do LE have perhaps have confirmation (perhaps from Kaine that he saw Terri and Kyron leave that morning from their home) that Kyron was with Terri that morning but they don't think that Terri *and* Kyron both made it to school that morning? Which means that, in terms of their investigation, Terri would indeed be the last know person to have seen Kyron alive that morning (it just would not have been at 8:45 at Skyline, like has been reported).

Perhaps they only have confirmation on Terri, who spoke with the PTA President (who later changed her story to say that she only saw Terri?) and with Kyron's teacher? And they don't have anyone else saying that they actually saw Kyron that morning. What about the classmate who said he spoke with Kyron that morning?

And then there is the issue of Kyron's clothing. The LE has put out that Kyron was wearing a CSI shirt and cargo pants when he went missing. That is the outfit that he has on in the photo of him taken in front of his science project, which is what has also made people believe it was taken on the same day/Friday. If that picture was not taken on Friday morning, and perhaps taken the day before, was he wearing the same outfit two days in a row?

Now I'm quoting myself (which is probably a sign that I'm crazy) and I don't know how much speculative stuff is allowed here (as I'm new) but let's take this to where I think those of you who believe that Kyron was never at Skyline on Friday are taking this:

1) SM takes pictures of Kyron on Thursday of Kyron in front of his science project.
2) SM makes sure that Kyron is dressed in same CSI shirt and cargo pants on Friday morning (this is my speculation if dad was around that morning before heading off to work, so that he would confirm what Kyron was wearing that day) and leaves the house with Kyron that morning.
3) SM goes to Kyron's school that morning, makes sure she is seen (so as to have alibi and confirmation that she was at school that day), drops off his backpack in his classroom and tells teacher about next Friday's appointment
4) SM goes to Sauvie Island to kill Kyron and/or dispose of his body
5) SM posts picture of Kyron in front of science project on her FB page to make it look like Kyron was there at school that morning
6) During investigation of SM's camera, witnesses at Skyline,and SM's cellphone pings, LE realizes that Kyron was never at Skyline on Friday morning, this is an "isolated case" aka not a stranger abduction, calls off search, announces that it is now a criminal case.

Is this those who don't think that Kyron was there on Friday are speculating?

 

[hollye]

So, to play off what you are saying and what KariKae wrote in the post above yours, when Det. Gates said in the press conference on Friday, June 19th that ""Terri is the last known person to have seen Kyron alive before he disappeared," (http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504083_162-20008192-504083.html?tag=contentMain;contentBody), that LE don't necessarily think that Kyron ever made it school that Friday morning? Do LE have perhaps have confirmation (perhaps from Kaine that he saw Terri and Kyron leave that morning from their home) that Kyron was with Terri that morning but they don't think that Terri *and* Kyron both made it to school that morning? Which means that, in terms of their investigation, Terri would indeed be the last know person to have seen Kyron alive that morning (it just would not have been at 8:45 at Skyline, like has been reported).

Perhaps they only have confirmation on Terri, who spoke with the PTA President (who later changed her story to say that she only saw Terri?) and with Kyron's teacher? And they don't have anyone else saying that they actually saw Kyron that morning. What about the classmate who said he spoke with Kyron that morning?

And then there is the issue of Kyron's clothing. The LE has put out that Kyron was wearing a CSI shirt and cargo pants when he went missing. That is the outfit that he has on in the photo of him taken in front of his science project, which is what has also made people believe it was taken on the same day/Friday. If that picture was not taken on Friday morning, and perhaps taken the day before, was he wearing the same outfit two days in a row?

BBM Where does it say that she was the last known person to have seen Kyron ALIVE?

The actual quote, if this is the quote that you were trying to quote, was “Terri is the last known person to have seen him before he disappeared.” http://www.mcso.us/public/newsroom.htm

There is a big difference, IMO, to these 2 statements. Yet, I keep seeing the statements on here containing the word "alive", which I have not heard LE say to date.


ETA ~ Here is the actual video of the news conference... http://www.kgw.com/video?id=96685544&sec=547977

 

[DMansMom]

first of all welcome to websleuths! Secondly, I completely agree with you.

Thanks for the welcome, nursebeeme. Your bee in your sig is hypnotizing!

 

[kikid]

I'd like to know the last time Kyron was seen by anyone besides Dad & SM.

I've looked at a few pics of Kyron and in most he is wearing a CSI shirt. There were a few different shirts, but they were all CSI.

As a parent I find that odd that he had so many csi shirts and that most pics show him wearing one. If they wanted to photoshop a pic, or to confuse possible witnesses - then by all means say he was wearing a csi shirt.

As a parent I can say in my house it is uncommon to have more than one of a type of item, even for my boys - unless some were hand me downs or something.

It's difficult for me to keep my kids in one set of clothes a day... but that's just how we are in my house and they could be totally different about clothes.

 

[captivagrl]

Now I'm quoting myself (which is probably a sign that I'm crazy) and I don't know how much speculative stuff is allowed here (as I'm new) but let's take this to where I think those of you who believe that Kyron was never at Skyline on Friday are taking this:

1) SM takes pictures of Kyron on Thursday of Kyron in front of his science project.
2) SM makes sure that Kyron is dressed in same CSI shirt and cargo pants on Friday morning (this is my speculation if dad was around that morning before heading off to work, so that he would confirm what Kyron was wearing that day) and leaves the house with Kyron that morning.
3) SM goes to Kyron's school that morning, makes sure she is seen (so as to have alibi and confirmation that she was at school that day), drops off his backpack in his classroom and tells teacher about next Friday's appointment
4) SM goes to Sauvie Island to kill Kyron and/or dispose of his body
5) SM posts picture of Kyron in front of science project on her FB page to make it look like Kyron was there at school that morning
6) During investigation of SM's camera, witnesses at Skyline,and SM's cellphone pings, LE realizes that Kyron was never at Skyline on Friday morning, this is an "isolated case" aka not a stranger abduction, calls off search, announces that it is now a criminal case.

Is this those who don't think that Kyron was there on Friday are speculating?

I'm speculating that something happened in the home Thurs. SM covered up a fatal accident/incident either with or without help from dad. The photo is from Thurs And she was able to convince others that he was at school Fri. Just a possibility.
I think LE would have caught on early and they're trying to make a case. They were able to announce that other children were not in danger. How could they say that if he was possibly abducted from the school by a stranger?

 

[Calliope]

Or maybe BEFORE school after BD left for work. I have not seen anything that states they were seen TOGETHER.

At least one person did, according to multiple reports:

Parent Gina Zimmerman said she last saw Kyron in the morning, when he posed in a classroom in front of his "red-eyed tree frog" science project. She said her daughter is one of Kyron’s best friends and she knew him well.

http://www.nwcn.com/home/Police-continue-following-new-tips-in-Kyron-Horman-case-96885889.html

Parent Gina Zimmerman was at the school for the science fair, which she described as major academic and social event for the school where the day's events included an afternoon talent show.

She said Kyron is not the type of child to wander off. "He knows 'stranger danger," she said. "He's a really good kid."

Parents are shocked at the disappearance, she said, and have been calling to share concerns at "our little school where everyone knows everybody."

She last saw Kyron in the morning, when he posed in a classroom in front of his "red-eyed tree frog" science project. He was posing for a picture taken by his mother, whom he loves, Zimmerman said.

Zimmerman's daughter Madi is one of Kyron's best friends.

http://www.helpfindmychild.net/kyron-horman?page=1

8:15 a.m. Gina Zimmerman, president of the school PTA, arrives and sees Kyron with his stepmother in front of his exhibit.

http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/06/kyron_horman_chronology_of_eve.html

 

[DMansMom]

BBM Where does it say that she was the last known person to have seen Kyron ALIVE?

The actual quote, if this is the quote that you were trying to quote, was “Terri is the last known person to have seen him before he disappeared.” http://www.mcso.us/public/newsroom.htm

There is a big difference, IMO, to these 2 statements. Yet, I keep seeing the statements on here containing the word "alive", which I have not heard LE say to date.


ETA ~ Here is the actual video of the news conference... http://www.kgw.com/video?id=96685544&sec=547977

Not snitty; a good question. Actually, I was looking at this AP story, which now I realize is not a direct quote (4th para down)
http://www.kval.com/news/local/96724314.html?
Detectives investigating the disappearance of a 7-year-old Oregon boy two weeks ago put out a call Friday for information on the whereabouts that day of his stepmother - the last person to see him alive.

And here from CBS (2nd para) also not a direct quote:
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504083_162-20008276-504083.html?tag=contentMain;contentBody
The 7-year-old vanished June 4, and his stepmother has figured prominently in the investigation since then, because authorities say she was the last known person to see him alive.

And HuffPo actually has it as a direct quote from Det. Gates (4th para):
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/06/21/missing-boy-stepmom-terri_n_619494.html
"Terri is the last known person to have seen Kyron alive before he disappeared," Gates said.

Potentially sloppy journalism (I'll admit I have not watched the press conference) but that is where the "alive" piece is coming from in the mainstream press.

 

[AlexisFresca]

Any reports or confirmation as to when Kaine last saw Kyron? I find it odd that to my knowledge, this has never been specified either way. Anyone else?

 

[kathryann]

Any reports or confirmation as to when Kaine last saw Kyron? I find it odd that to my knowledge, this has never been specified either way. Anyone else?

Yes I find this odd

 

[DMansMom]

I'm speculating that something happened in the home Thurs. SM covered up a fatal accident/incident either with or without help from dad. The photo is from Thurs And she was able to convince others that he was at school Fri. Just a possibility.
I think LE would have caught on early and they're trying to make a case. They were able to announce that other children were not in danger. How could they say that if he was possibly abducted from the school by a stranger?

Captivagrl, the LE coming out early on to say that they did not think that other children were in danger and that parents need not change their normal routines, really made me go "???". A kid is missing from a school (aka safe place) where his SM watched him walk to his classroom. I would think that every kid in the area would be in potential jeopardy. "There is no reason to believe that the kids are in any danger here," Gates said. Why would they say that? (http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504083_162-20007724-504083.html)

Is it because they were able to confirm that Kyron left the school with his SM?
Portland Public Schools spokesman Matt Shelby said two teachers saw Kyron with his mother and thought the two left school together. (http://www.king5.com/news/local/NW-Portland-second-grader-still-missing-Saturday-95689114.html)

 

[kathryann]

At least one person did, according to multiple reports:

Parent Gina Zimmerman said she last saw Kyron in the morning, when he posed in a classroom in front of his "red-eyed tree frog" science project. She said her daughter is one of Kyron’s best friends and she knew him well.

http://www.nwcn.com/home/Police-continue-following-new-tips-in-Kyron-Horman-case-96885889.html

Parent Gina Zimmerman was at the school for the science fair, which she described as major academic and social event for the school where the day's events included an afternoon talent show.

She said Kyron is not the type of child to wander off. "He knows 'stranger danger," she said. "He's a really good kid."

Parents are shocked at the disappearance, she said, and have been calling to share concerns at "our little school where everyone knows everybody."

She last saw Kyron in the morning, when he posed in a classroom in front of his "red-eyed tree frog" science project. He was posing for a picture taken by his mother, whom he loves, Zimmerman said.

Zimmerman's daughter Madi is one of Kyron's best friends.

http://www.helpfindmychild.net/kyron-horman?page=1

8:15 a.m. Gina Zimmerman, president of the school PTA, arrives and sees Kyron with his stepmother in front of his exhibit.

http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/06/kyron_horman_chronology_of_eve.html

Ok, I guess that blows my theory LOL. This is just too complicated to figure out. If it's not SM, it just seems like LE would be warning people to watch their children. I'm totally and completely confused. I was just thinking that maybe something happened on the way to the school, SM showed up, took pictures, talked to people, established alibi and went to SI. I guess if someone actually DID witness them together, anything is possible.

 

[KariKae]

There were (at least) 3 other people in the photo Terri took of Kyron standing in front of his project; there's one other photo that includes another little boy's project. I think between those four people at least, LE would be able to determine that Kyron was present in school that morning.

Maybe - maybe not. The people in the photo appear to be male. My husband couldn't pick DD's classmates out of a line up. (And she goes to a small private school with one 2nd grade class who has been together since pre-school)

 

[AlexisFresca]

Yes I find this odd

Has it been reported if any cell phone pings were discovered in the school area itself or only on Sauvie Island? Could Terri have 'dumped' her phone on Sauvie Island the day before, thus her not having her cell with her when she went to the bus stop to pick up Kyron? Not to mention a 'false focus' on the search for Kyron as well?

 

[Calliope]

Maybe - maybe not. The people in the photo appear to be male. My husband couldn't pick DD's classmates out of a line up. (And she goes to a small private school with one 2nd grade class who has been together since pre-school)

2 of those people are children who probably knew Kyron; one I'd be willing to say for sure as he is in class with kyron and posed for a photo taken by Terri. As far as the adults go, they may not have known Terri, but she is memorable if for no other reason than her hair. She was also one of the parent volunteers, so I'd think she'd be recognized by kids and adults.

 

[DMansMom]

Maybe - maybe not. The people in the photo appear to be male. My husband couldn't pick DD's classmates out of a line up. (And she goes to a small private school with one 2nd grade class who has been together since pre-school)

The man in the background in the photo wouldn't necessarily have to confirm that he saw Kyron or even knew who Kyron was. All the man would have to do would be to confirm that he was at the science fair on Friday morning (as opposed to Thursday or some other time) so that LE could confirm when the picture of Kyron was taken.

I'm wondering if LE got enough confirmation/witnesses that said they saw Kyron leaving with SM that morning, that that is why LE called off the searches and changed the case status to criminal but never to Kyron having been abducted? And then, factually,they can continue to say that SM is still the last known person to have seen Kyron, it just doesn't mean that her "8:45 walking to the classroom" statement on when she last saw him is one that they still believe.

And I wonder if LE is feeding information off the record to the local reporters, saying "look, we know we haven't been telling you anything around this case but we have reason to think it's the SM and we need you guys to back off, not hound the staff of the school or the family, because while we think it is her, but we aren't sure if the kid is alive or dead, so back off or else you are going to potentially ruin this for us?" And the local reporters are being respectful of the investigators & that's why you haven't see reporters chasing after parents, (as a former local news reporter (although not investigative), I can tell it wouldn't be that hard to figure out who that guy was in the background of the science project photo), Kyron's teacher, etc.

To keep this thread on topic, have we pretty much verified that Kyron and his SM were at Skyline on Friday June 4th? :innocent: