What evidence does the prosecution have?

[saguaro]

Anyone who takes any medications knows that "extreme" side effects are very rare and if you experience them you are prescribed something else.

Also, ones body gets used to medications and the effects are much different to one who has been on then compared to someone who has never taken them.

For example; some people take xanax for anxiety and get used to the dosage where someone who has never taken xanax might get very sleepy at first.

 

[Sun48shine]

Anyone who takes any medications knows that "extreme" side effects are very rare and if you experience them you are prescribed something else.

Also, ones body gets used to medications and the effects are much different to one who has been on then compared to someone who has never taken them.

For example; some people take xanax for anxiety and get used to the dosage where someone who has never taken xanax might get very sleepy at first.

Are you referring to the 2 meds that were prescribed for GZ? The question may be if both were prescribed to be taken together.

 

[saguaro]

Are you referring to the 2 meds that were prescribed for GZ? The question may be if both were prescribed to be taken together.

Results for the following 2 drugs:

Adderall is in the drug class CNS stimulants.
Adderall is used to treat the following conditions: ADHD, Narcolepsy.

Temazepam is a member of the drug class benzodiazepines.
Temazepam is used to treat Insomnia.

There were no interactions found in our database between Adderall and temazepam

http://www.drugs.com/drug-interactions/adderall-with-temazepam-190-1645-2153-0.html

 

[Sun48shine]

Results for the following 2 drugs:

Adderall is in the drug class CNS stimulants.
Adderall is used to treat the following conditions: ADHD, Narcolepsy.

Temazepam is a member of the drug class benzodiazepines.
Temazepam is used to treat Insomnia.

There were no interactions found in our database between Adderall and temazepam

http://www.drugs.com/drug-interactions/adderall-with-temazepam-190-1645-2153-0.html

The prosecution documented the two medications for a reason.


"According to the National Institute of Health, Temazepam is used to treat insomnia. Adderall is a Class II drug used in cases of Attention Deficit Hyperactivity Disorder (ADHD). According to Web MD, one of the possible reactions is “aggressive behavior,” something the prosecution is sure to mine."

http://taylormarsh.com/blog/2012/05/abc-report-george-zimmerman-injuries-described-prescription-drugs-also-cited-in-weeks-prior-to-shooting/

 

[LambChop]

On private property, at least where I live, there is no requirement that you identify yourself. However, there is also no legal requirement that TZ need respond, nor does it give one the right to detain another (not aware of any evidence that this was even the case). All I was saying is that George's presence was uncontestably lawful, and his inquiring into TZ's business on property to which he is a co-owner was indeed lawful should it have occurred.

GZ is not an owner, he only leased the property. He was also told by LE to wait with the car until a patrol car arrived. Once you call it in it becomes a police matter and GZ was not suppose to do anything other than wait either at home or in his car for police. This is a big problem for LE. It amounts to taking the law into your own hands. Nothing was ever going to be gained by GZ following TM. There was no reason. He did not observe TM committing a crime. TM wasn't chasing someone, or hitting someone or stealing their purse. It was not GZ's responsibility to do LE's job for them. He had no authority whatsoever. Once you report a crime the rules about pursing someone changes and that is what LE was trying to communicate to GZ. Because GZ took matters into his own hands instead of waiting for LE, TM is dead. It's not a matter of the law, it's a matter of not interferring with police business when it is no longer your business. Someone walking down the street it none of business unless they are doing something wrong. GZ has never proven TM was doing something wrong.....he just thought in his mind, at the time, that TM looked suspicious. Someone not so obsessed might think it was just a kid walking home in the rain. jmo

This all took place in the common areas of the community and it was not GZ's "private property" and was no where near where GZ lived. He lived on the other side of this community.

 

[sleonardelli]

The prosecution documented the two medications for a reason.


"According to the National Institute of Health, Temazepam is used to treat insomnia. Adderall is a Class II drug used in cases of Attention Deficit Hyperactivity Disorder (ADHD). According to Web MD, one of the possible reactions is “aggressive behavior,” something the prosecution is sure to mine."

http://taylormarsh.com/blog/2012/05/abc-report-george-zimmerman-injuries-described-prescription-drugs-also-cited-in-weeks-prior-to-shooting/

The meds could provide the defense w/"diminished capacity".

 

[Sun48shine]

The meds could provide the defense w/"diminished capacity".

Good point!!

I was thinking of a very vague definition for "diminished capacity", but looking the definition up for legal purposes, I see that it is defined as:

"diminished capacity n. essentially a psychological term which has found its way into criminal trials. A contention of diminished capacity means that although the accused was not insane, due to emotional distress, physical condition or other factors he/she could not fully comprehend the nature of the criminal act he/she is accused of committing, particularly murder or attempted murder. It is raised by the defense in attempts to remove the element of premeditation or criminal intent and thus obtain a conviction for a lesser crime, such as manslaughter instead of murder. While the theory has some legitimacy, at times juries have been overly impressed by psychiatric testimony. The most notorious case was in People v. Dan White, the admitted killer of San Francisco Mayor George Moscone and Supervisor Harvey Milk, who got only a manslaughter conviction on the basis that his capacity was diminished by the sugar content of his blood due to eating "twinkies." (See: insanity, M'Naughten Rule)"


http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/Diminished+Capacity

 

[HiHater]

Adderall has a high potential for abuse (Sched 2 drug)...not saying it's the case here, but it could be. I also wonder how this drug interacts with alcohol...

 

[cityslick]

Seems like the media is always misleading. Earlier reports reported scrapes to TM's knuckles, as if there were more. Now MSNBC describes that injury as 1/4 inch abrasion below the right ring finger knuckle. Does this change the possible theory of TM attacking GZ?

Not necessarily. He didn't have to have any injuries on his hands to start the attack, cause GZ's injuries and then get shot. We know the scuffle didn't last very long (a minute?) and perhaps GZ didn't get the chance to fight back until the gun came out?

 

[Sun48shine]

Not necessarily. He didn't have to have any injuries on his hands to start the attack, cause GZ's injuries and then get shot. We know the scuffle didn't last very long (a minute?) and perhaps GZ didn't get the chance to fight back until the gun came out?

This could have been just an accidental shooting. There's no way of telling if GZ may have just pulled out the gun to scare TM or what. I guess it all will come out through what additional evidence there may or may not be.

 

[ariesgodofwar]

Results for the following 2 drugs:

Adderall is in the drug class CNS stimulants.
Adderall is used to treat the following conditions: ADHD, Narcolepsy.

Temazepam is a member of the drug class benzodiazepines.
Temazepam is used to treat Insomnia.

There were no interactions found in our database between Adderall and temazepam

http://www.drugs.com/drug-interactions/adderall-with-temazepam-190-1645-2153-0.html

JVM had some General Physician on her show last night who was talking about how these were never prescribed together........which is completely opposite my own anecdotal experience. I am sure they did not have a Psychiatrist because they did not want to hear what one would say. Adderall is almost always prescribed with both a Benzodiazepine and something like Ambien/Lunesta. The reason this is done is because Adderall can cause insomnia, and it could possibly trigger a panic attack. I know when I was first prescribed Adderall, I was written prescriptions for Xanax and Ambien as well. Never used or needed them, but I have the prescriptions should I need them. Lets remember, just because GZ has a prescription, does not mean that he was on both medications at the time (assuming not on temazepam because he was going to the store and driving a vehicle) . They are not "mixed" (taken at the same time) as they have opposite effects. Temazepam is likely only taken on an as needed basis.

 

[ariesgodofwar]

This could have been just an accidental shooting. There's no way of telling if GZ may have just pulled out the gun to scare TM or what. I guess it all will come out through what additional evidence there may or may not be.

That does not make sense to me. If he pulled the gun to "scare" Trayvon, he would have done so prior to being point blank, and also, I think common sense dictates that if you have a gun drawn, you are not going to wait until you are knocked down, supine, and getting punched in the face, and/or your head beaten on the concrete to use it. Let's keep in mind, according to the report, Zimmerman had injuries on both the occipital and posterior sides of his head. Neither a single punch or head slamming explains both, unless the blow took GZ off his feet, and he hit his head upon hitting the ground....

 

[Sun48shine]

JVM had some General Physician on her show last night who was talking about how these were never prescribed together........which is completely opposite my own anecdotal experience. I am sure they did not have a Psychiatrist because they did not want to hear what one would say. Adderall is almost always prescribed with both a Benzodiazepine and something like Ambien/Lunesta. The reason this is done is because Adderall can cause insomnia, and it could possibly trigger a panic attack. I know when I was first prescribed Adderall, I was written prescriptions for Xanax and Ambien as well. Never used or needed them, but I have the prescriptions should I need them. Lets remember, just because GZ has a prescription, does not mean that he was on both medications at the time (assuming not on temazepam because he was going to the store and driving a vehicle) . They are not "mixed" (taken at the same time) as they have opposite effects. Temazepam is likely only taken on an as needed basis.

Thank you ariesgodofwar! This gives better insight on both medications!!!

 

[CHICANA]

Did he identify himself?

As a property owner ?

 

[ariesgodofwar]

Adderall has a high potential for abuse (Sched 2 drug)...not saying it's the case here, but it could be. I also wonder how this drug interacts with alcohol...

You are correct. It has a high potential for abuse, which is why Sched II, which means that you only get 1 script good for 30 days with no refill. Your doctor will require you to be physically present each month, or will send you a handwritten script with a DNFU (Do Not Fill Until) Date. Given that he was prescribed the Adderall therapeutically, I think it is highly unlikely he was abusing it. They have the restrictions on Sched II they do to prevent the patient from selling the medication, or over dosing the medication (ie. if you do either, you are out of luck until your next script comes due)

 

[Sun48shine]

That does not make sense to me. If he pulled the gun to "scare" Trayvon, he would have done so prior to being point blank, and also, I think common sense dictates that if you have a gun drawn, you are not going to wait until you are knocked down, supine, and getting punched in the face, and/or your head beaten on the concrete to use it. Let's keep in mind, according to the report, Zimmerman had injuries on both the occipital and posterior sides of his head. Neither a single punch or head slamming explains both, unless the blow took GZ off his feet, and he hit his head upon hitting the ground....

I watch too many movies. They always show where people are holding out a gun, yelling "You better stop", and letting the other person attack them.

 

[HiHater]

You are correct. It has a high potential for abuse, which is why Sched II, which means that you only get 1 script good for 30 days with no refill. Your doctor will require you to be physically present each month, or will send you a handwritten script with a DNFU (Do Not Fill Until) Date. Given that he was prescribed the Adderall therapeutically, I think it is highly unlikely he was abusing it. They have the restrictions on Sched II they do to prevent the patient from selling the medication, or over dosing the medication (ie. if you do either, you are out of luck until your next script comes due)

BBM

Aren't lots of people prescribed Adderall (sp?) therapeutically? It's misused, abused...jmo

ETA: the only uses I've seen are narcolepsy and ADHD...

 

[ariesgodofwar]

I watch too many movies. They always show where people are holding out a gun, yelling "You better stop", and letting the other person attack them.

Yep, in movies guns are not limited by capacity, and always kill the bad guy with one shot......gives folks who do not use firearms regularly a very poor understanding of what they can and cannot do, and how they work/do not work.

This is why if you ever see real life examples of Police Officers drawing down on a suspect, you will always see them step back, not toward the suspect. If you get close in, you lose. It is because of what is called OODA Loop (Observe, Orient, Decide, Act). It was what they discovered training fighter pilots......

What it simply means is that, "Action Beats Reaction." This is because it takes your brain time to process what is occurring and then decide on a course of action. The Officers step back, because that is what they are trained to do. They know that if a suspect lunges at them, or does something unexpected, that they want to have as much time to react as possible.

 

[ariesgodofwar]

BBM

Aren't lots of people prescribed Adderall (sp?) therapeutically? It's misused, abused...jmo

ETA: the only uses I've seen are narcolepsy and ADHD...

Yes, lots of people are, however, typically, it is not the ones that have the prescription, who have an actual chemical imbalance, it is the folks that purchase the pills from those that have a legitimate diagnosis, or that have somehow come by the medication (stolen, purchased from someone else, etc). People with abnormally low dopamine levels (ADHD) are affected differently by the medication than those who do not. Thus, if it was prescribed, I think we can likely assume, GZ had a legitimate condition.

And yes, ADHD and Narcolepsy are the 2 conditions for which it is approved.

 

[RANCH]

Seems like the media is always misleading. Earlier reports reported scrapes to TM's knuckles, as if there were more. Now MSNBC describes that injury as 1/4 inch abrasion below the right ring finger knuckle. Does this change the possible theory of TM attacking GZ?

I agree with you about the media. I believed the funeral director when he said that Trayvon had no injuries to his hands and still thought that Trayvon could have attacked GZ. I'd like to see the autopsy report to know what injuries are there, but it doesn't matter much to me if there is or isn't any on his hands. JMO.