What Facts Ruin Your Theory?

[Short_Stuff]

The choloroform searching on the net ruined my theory. Until I heard Casey was researching it ahead of time, I didnt think it was premeditated. Now I do.
(Also, I wanted LE to dig up the whole yard, not just bits, because Casey said "shes close" and I was convinced Caylee was in that yard, now im 99% satisfied with LE's searching of the yard)

 

[miimaa]

I think KC wanted one more day to get out of town. I bet if CA had given her one more day, KC would have disappeared that night while C & G were sleeping and never looked back. She would have taken her $200 cash and bought a bus ticket, or hitched a ride or something, to get her as far away as possible, and then she would've started a new life, maybe turning tricks for cash, who knows.

She probably would have went to the California to the marine she was stringing along.

 

[Salem]

I think KC wanted one more day to get out of town. I bet if CA had given her one more day, KC would have disappeared that night while C & G were sleeping and never looked back. She would have taken her $200 cash and bought a bus ticket, or hitched a ride or something, to get her as far away as possible, and then she would've started a new life, maybe turning tricks for cash, who knows.

I think you are absolutely right!

But still, I think the wording of "give me one more day" is weird. When you look at CA's 7/3/08 myspace about "My Caylee is Missing," and put them together with the 7/15/08 conversation between CA & KC, the words themselves imply that CA had known that KC does not know where Caylee is and CA should give KC "one more day to produce Caylee." Then CA says "I've given you a month to produce Caylee" which again, to me anyway, implies that CA knew Caylee was not where she was supposed to be and that KC was hiding something or lying about something.

Salem

 

[Can't Sleep]

Is it possible that Casey was at Sawgrass the same day as ZG and overheard he talking to whomever was showing her around?

Or maybe Casey was in the office when ZG was being shown the model apt.? She could've been interested in renting an apt. (Annie and Dante lived there) and been allowed to wait in the office while the property mgr. took ZG to view the model - giving her time to look over the guest card and take notes. Maybe it was actually THEN that she firmed up the "Zannie the Nanny" thing.


Or....Annie D. was Casey's very best friend - there are tons of "girlfriend" photos - and maybe one of the first names Caylee learned to say was "Annie." Caylee may have even talked to Cindy about "Annie" and in baby talk she said, "Zannie." Casey might've been searching for "any old zanaida" to fit her image of a babysitter and MySpace is where she found the photos and story of ZG. Voila. Trailed her around a little bit and remembered seeing her go look at SawGrass so that's where she said the "drop off" for Caylee was. She didn't need to know more than that and what was on her MySpace page to make a confusing and coincidentally frustrating connection.

?:waitasec:

 

[Hope for the Best]

I think you are absolutely right!

But still, I think the wording of "give me one more day" is weird. When you look at CA's 7/3/08 myspace about "My Caylee is Missing," and put them together with the 7/15/08 conversation between CA & KC, the words themselves imply that CA had known that KC does not know where Caylee is and CA should give KC "one more day to produce Caylee." Then CA says "I've given you a month to produce Caylee" which again, to me anyway, implies that CA knew Caylee was not where she was supposed to be and that KC was hiding something or lying about something.

Salem

I agree. But, I don't think CA had any inkling of an idea that Caylee was missing missing as in gone for good. I think she just thought that KC was withholding Caylee out of spite. CA probably asked KC to see Caylee many times during that month, but KC probably always just avoided it (she's with the nanny, we're too busy right now, we're on vacation in Jacksonville, excuses excuses). Something tells me KC got very good at stringing her parents along through the years, and her parents just accepted her lies. I really don't think that CA believes, even to this day, that KC would be capable of killing Caylee, which is why she allowed herself to just get strung along by the lies. Until she smelled the car. I think that CA still has a hard time believing or accepting what happened to Caylee and that KC is responsible, but I think the smell of that car was a big wakeup call, one that CA wouldn't ignore. Had CA never smelled that car, KC would probably still be stringing along her parents with one excuse or another, or she would've probably just disappeared by now.

 

[Voice4theSilent]

I have pondered a lot about ZG too ... it was just too significant to rule a coincidence, to me; the ZG/Sawgrass connection.

A while back ... when there was a group of posters on here trashing Beba/ZG ... I reached out to her on MySpace ... and have since been able to learn some things. Note: She is not talking much now except to exchange pleasantries - due to the pending case. First of all I will say this, this lady is really genuinely nice. She may appear rough around the edges ... but consider Casey's appearance! It all goes back to what our Mama's taught us about judging a book by its cover - don't!

One thing in particular that I learned that made things a little more clear for me ... It was actually a light bulb moment! She thinks that she may have posted to one of her friends in a MySpace comment saying that she had looked at an apartment at Sawgrass. She said that it wouldn't have been unusual to do that since one of her friends was considering possibly rooming with her and the girls. Incidentally, I posted this information once before ... but at the time a lot of people were still convinced that she was involved somehow. Now, I don't know about y'all ... but knowing that someone, presumably Casey, had previously searched for that name on MySpace ... maybe she ran across the comment that ZG posted to her friend and learned that she had visited Sawgrass. You all can figure it out from there.

Anyway ... this is certainly speculation or maybe an educated guess at this point ... but I thought I would share it, as it seems relevant to the topic here.

That makes the most logical sense to me and has been something I have thought for awhile now. I have a MySpace and it is amazing how much information people put on there, without putting a second thought into it. If KC knew someone who knew someone who knew ZG, with how much time she spent on the computer and on her facebook and MySpace accounts, it seems extremely possible that is how she came up with the connection.

 

[Voice4theSilent]

No, CA's statement there didn't bother me. It sounded exactly like something she would say when she's upset and exagerating. In her mind she hasn't seen Caylee for a month so now she's saying that KC didn't LET her see her for a month. Same type of behavior she's pulled with her comments about the media and LE. After all, it's only "stretching" the truth to her.

I agree. It was one of those statements made under extreme stress that wasn't to be taken literally. I honestly believe that if CA was involved before July 15th she wouldn't have called the police. If she was involved she would have kept her mouth shut to KC's friends, LE, LA, etc. and we might not have ever heard about Caylee.

 

[Hope for the Best]

The ZG connection is the one piece of this whole thing that gets me, too, because I really do think that there is no Zenaida nanny and that KC did kill Caylee and I don't think that she had any accomplices. Remember her poem, she wrote trust no one. I think KC does trust no one.

I live in Orlando, and I will be honest, I've never heard the name Zenaida before all this happened. Despite what JB wants us to believe, its not a common name. But, I thought I read that there was a Zenaida in her neighborhood or in her graduating class or something. It could be that she heard the name once and it got filed into her memory. Then somehow the "Zanny" name for the nanny came up, either from the children's book, or because KC had been drugging Caylee with Xanax and that became her code word for the nanny for Caylee. Then, after Caylee's death, while KC was cooking up a story, she thought about the nanny "Zanny" and was trying to think of a real name that Zanny could be and remembered Zenaida. From there, she needed to find a real life Zenaida, so she started looking through the phone book, or the internet, or MySpace. She found one. Then, she either followed her, or stalked her myspace page, but somehow she found out that ZG went to Sawgrass and voila. She had her nanny and she had a "scene of the crime". I really don't think that KC had originally planned on Sawgrass being a part of the story. I think it could have just as easily have been a McDonalds or a Walmart. She just needed a verifiable place for ZG to be so that she could say that she had met up with her and it could be proven that ZG had in fact been there.

I know this all seems pretty far fetched, but its the only way I can explain the ZG connection.

 

[loneleigh]

GA's story about the morning of the 16th is what doesn't gel with my theory.

I have thought from the get go that 31 days was the only truth out of Casey's mouth making the 15th the last day Caylee was alive.

I have always thought that Casey stormed out with Caylee after the fight at home in a rage. Caylee was upset about the fight and was crying for Cindy and Casey lost it and killed her. That just doesn't fit with GA having seen them on the 16th.

I think you're on the right track with this thought. I think that GA and CA didn't want to admit to LE that they had an argument with KC so they decided to say Caylee and KC were there just like any other "normal" day.
It takes the blame/heat off of them and puts it on KC.

 

[CaliKid]

What facts about this case contradict or are bothersome to your theory about what happened to Caylee. I was just wondering if we all have the same bothersome details that cannot be explained in our theories. For instance........

One thing that always bothered me was that a ZFG did go to Sawgrass apts. Can't really explain this one away. I do not believe it was a coincidence but I cannot figure out how this fits in.


__________________

I guess what I'd like to know why KC didn't leave Orlando and get away, especially with all the money she had from Amy's bank account. Aside from Tony, who seems like he was as disposable as her other boyfriends, and her family whom she could care less about, she really didn't have anything to tie her down. It would've been much simpler for her to leave the state and keep making up excuses to her parents about Caylee.

 

[OpenMind4U]

Once it was known that a "ZG" went to look at the apartment at Sawgrass on June 16th, filled out the guest card, has a silver colored car etc., etc. and ended up in Casey's "story-of-lies", that she dropped Caylee off at Sawgrass, I was not comfortable with this at all.

Casey had 31 days to concoct a story to make it all fit, but I still wonder how Casey managed to get a "ZG" who was at Sawgrass etc., etc., to fit it her story-of-lies!

Just to exercise the possibilities regarding how KC know so much about ZG?...This is just a theory (so, please be gentle...What if KC used this 'model' appartment herself when she needed, especially to put Caylee there at night, sleeping...She could have a key and use the 'model' as her hiding place. With this assumption, I can go further...what if on the day when ZG went to see appartment, KC was there, possibly hiding in closet (would be nice to know what time ZG came to see appartment and check the pings of KC phone). If KC was there and did hear some conversation (maybe about children, their age and so on), she could do further investigation and get more information about ZG...At that time, KC wouldn't know if ZG would rent appartment or not...she was assuming that ZG will rent appartment and therefore plug-in ZG story for cover-up...

Just the theory...nothing to support it...kind of 'brainstorming'...

 

[TURBOTHINK]

He lives within a few miles, but he wouldn't have the same lat/long address. Several of the locations that the pings have been pinned down to are within a narrower locations than that. The content of the texts also indicate she is at home.

I just went and verified the times, she arrives homes at 7:30pm on the 15th, and leaves there at 4:18 the following day. She is at the Chickasaw trail for a few minutes, and then to Tony's for the rest of the night of the 16th.

Could it be then the argument the neighbors heard was on the 16th or is there a statement by them as to the 15th? I can't remember reading their statement.

 

[TURBOTHINK]

Just to exercise the possibilities regarding how KC know so much about ZG?...This is just a theory (so, please be gentle...What if KC used this 'model' appartment herself when she needed, especially to put Caylee there at night, sleeping...She could have a key and use the 'model' as her hiding place. With this assumption, I can go further...what if on the day when ZG went to see appartment, KC was there, possibly hiding in closet (would be nice to know what time ZG came to see appartment and check the pings of KC phone). If KC was there and did hear some conversation (maybe about children, their age and so on), she could do further investigation and get more information about ZG...At that time, KC wouldn't know if ZG would rent appartment or not...she was assuming that ZG will rent appartment and therefore plug-in ZG story for cover-up...

Just the theory...nothing to support it...kind of 'brainstorming'...

You know, I thought about that too but discounted it because it would take someone "inside" Sawgrass management (which is possible) unless at she stole the key at some time from the management and because her friends lived there she could "slip" in there unnoticed at times.

 

[Noway]

The fact that bothers me is that Casey's car was at the Amscot at 7 a.m. on the 27th, but according to cell/pings she didn't leave TonE's until after 9 a.m. How did she do that unless she had another vehicle available at TonE's apt or got a ride?

The earliest search for ZFG on the computer taken from the Anthony home (HP Pavillion) according to the forensics report was dated October 2007, this indicated to me that the Zannny the Nanny story was already in play by then.

I'm wondering if the employee who reported this got the date wrong. She had contacted the home office (not sure if this is accurate term) and was told that if the car was still there after 3 days, to have it towed.

If she knew it was towed on June 30 (receipt from tow company), then her thinking might be that 30-3=27 and she first saw it on June 27.

BUT ... another way to look at it is 30, 29, 28 (three days).

Leonard P. thinks she parked it there on June 26 (evening) because she did not want anyone at Tony's to smell the smell. Then went back there on June 27 and used the car, driving it around, and returned it on June 27.

Does that fit more into the cell phone pings?

 

[TURBOTHINK]

I guess what I'd like to know why KC didn't leave Orlando and get away, especially with all the money she had from Amy's bank account. Aside from Tony, who seems like he was as disposable as her other boyfriends, and her family whom she could care less about, she really didn't have anything to tie her down. It would've been much simpler for her to leave the state and keep making up excuses to her parents about Caylee.

I believe that is what she had planned but she did not expect her mother to come looking for her and find her. She knew that her mother knew nothing about Tony, so she would have no reason to think she had to rush. I believe she needed more money (since she just had 200.00 in her billfold) and was putting the final touches on her plan to leave, but was caught first.

 

[Sammiejam]

Welcome Rae - I'm respectfully snipping your post a bit to address a specific comment:



When you couple this statement with CA's myspace comment about "My Caylee is missing" which CA posted on July 3rd (IIRC) it does raise the hinky meter some. Trying to put in perspective.... CA trusts that her daughter will not hurt Caylee. I'm guessing KC has put CA on "baby restriction" more than once when CA upset her. Both GA and CA asked about Caylee everytime they talked to KC or saw her and it had been about a month's time of KC's excuses for why Caylee was not around. I'm speculating at this point that CA was not going to put up with anymore excuses. However, KC's statement of "just give me one more day" is puzzling. Why would you ask for one more day to keep your child away from the grandparents when you knew you were busted and in trouble?

One more day for what? To take CA to the nanny's to fetch Caylee? To hang out with TonE?

The three things tied together are hard to reconcile. One or two of them can easily be explained away, but all three? Doesn't make sense. You have to wonder what all KC was telling CA when KC was refusing CA access to Caylee. There is more to the story, I'm sure.

Salem

This ALL drives me nuts!!! We know from CA's interview with LE that KC was telling her that they were staying at the Hardrock, going to parks, going out to dinner, trying to make it "work" as a family with JH... all stuff that seems fun and nothing that is a problem - until there is the horrible car accident with the hidden lacerations etc. BUT, according to the myspace posting CA knew all this was lies AT THE TIME and that infact Caylee was missing?

When AH took CA to TL's appartment on the night of the 15 july, CA did not express any suprise at all that she was not going to JH's house? (who she believed was KC's boyfriend du jour) So, if she knew the entire JH/hardrock/accident scenerio was a lie, then it stands to reason that she knew KC did not have a job. How long had she suspected that for? None of this ties in with my theory that KC had everyone fooled and decided to kill Caylee and live the high life except that maybe CA kept her mouth shut about the lies etc because she was just plain GLAD that she didnt have to deal with KC after she had left home, but never expected her to go so far as to murder Caylee. Maybe she just underestimated how far KC's decent into selfishness and crime had gone...

I also dont understand the whole gas can drama. SO much cr#p sorrounding those cans! One aspect that has always made me thing is when GA told KC that he wanted to get the chocks to rotate the wheels on the car. However, when KC pushed past him and threw the gas cans at him he did not say "Well thanks for that you thief but what I actually wanted was the chocks!" I suppose KC knew he actually just wanted his cans back but I dont understand why he didnt carry on the ruse. I guess he really didnt smell anything at that time...

 

[mykidsmom1119]

Was the Amscot close enough for her to jog there from TonE's apartment?

Do you remermber one of Casey's friends saying they saw her running or jogging one morning? He texted her and she said it wasn't her but he could swear it was. Does anyone know if it fits?

 

[need2know]

I'm wondering if the employee who reported this got the date wrong. She had contacted the home office (not sure if this is accurate term) and was told that if the car was still there after 3 days, to have it towed.

If she knew it was towed on June 30 (receipt from tow company), then her thinking might be that 30-3=27 and she first saw it on June 27.

BUT ... another way to look at it is 30, 29, 28 (three days).

Leonard P. thinks she parked it there on June 26 (evening) because she did not want anyone at Tony's to smell the smell. Then went back there on June 27 and used the car, driving it around, and returned it on June 27.

Does that fit more into the cell phone pings?

The pings move rather briskly away from TonE's - toward the Anthony home on the 27th (10:22 am ping @ Tone's apt - 11:09 a.m ping around Anthony home). I can't imagine Casey walking to TonE's in the evening hours of the 26th or walking/running from TonE's to Amscot in the morning hours of the 27th. She did not have a problem with TonE picking her up at the Amscot later on, she just didn't let him get close to the car. LP's theory does not sit well with me. Then again I'm no Casey and life in Casearnia expert, where squirrels,pizza and nannys fly and babies disappear, and days are really minutes and stealing from friends and family is how you make a living.
:woohoo: :woohoo: :woohoo: :woohoo:

 

[JohnVaughanCauthen]

The human decomposition odor is so strong, but there is no DNA.

DNA would come from a body rubbing against the trunk, unless the body was in a plastic bag. If it was in a plastic bag, how could the decomp odor be so strong?

I wondered if there is a human decomp spray that might be used to train cadaver dogs.

If that exists, the car could be sprayed with it while Casey was separated from her car.

That fits with a covert adoption plan. The evidence would point to Caylee accidentally dying. It would be the fault of the nanny who disappeared, when the truth was Caylee had been secretly adopted.

Jesse wanted Caylee adopted.

Casey said to the police she was willing to provide another home for Caylee. Was Caylee adopted because Jesse wanted it?

Did that plan go bad when Caylee could not be found by Casey after Caylee had been given away? If it was an adoption plan to satisfy Jesse, and if Casey was willing to provide Caylee with another home, Casey would have demanded the right to see Caylee and know where she is. When Caylee could not be found, Casey had been betrayed, and that set her into her present state of mind. Casey and Jesse broke up. Now Casey has the nearly impossible task of showing she did not kill her daughter. Fortunately, there are some odd facts that don’t make sense, like Casey being separated from her car.

 

[shelbar53]

What bothers me most is that the GP can't come up with a timeline for what they were doing or when they had caylee. Everything is "maybe this date or that date..cant remember what they did on memorial day or the 4th for sure but they can remember clothing on a "normal day". Never asked for grocery store "scan" records, {im sure everyone has a scan card on their keychain} or anything that would help jog their memory as to who was where.. and did what.. on a specific date. It seems to me that they are afraid to say anything definate because it might catch casey in another one of her lies. Its difficult to figure out where everyone was on key dates because of the evasiveness of all involved. Cindys stories do not match the cell phone records.