What if another parent from Skyline abducted Kyron?

[YellowSubmarine]

Cluciano - you are right that we don't know exactly what the teacher said but we do know for a fact Kyron was in his classroom first thing that morning and then was gone. His teacher knew he was there. She most certainly noticed later on he wasn't at his desk. The teachers and school staff are responsible for the health and safety of our children while they are on school property during school hours. It's an absolute shame that Kyron could be with his class and a short time later when he isn't, it's ignored.

 

[gliving]

and even if they were still there, big deal. Kids leave stuff all of the time and it is not the teacher's responsibility to take care of kid's back packs and jackets.

If it is important, the parent will call about them and pick them up. If not, the child can bring them home the next day.

Children have to learn to become responsible instead of having their parents take care of little issues like that.

My mate is a teacher. Mate says it is the teacher's responsibility to make sure the students have their backpacks, lunch boxes and jackets when going home, especially in the primary years. Backpacks often have assignments and letters from the teacher. Some children only have one coat.

It's the parent's responsibility to make sure the lessons and notes return the next day. So if lessons are habitually forgotten, the teacher can assure the parent that the student had the lesson when they left school.

 

[cluciano63]

Cluciano - you are right that we don't know exactly what the teacher said but we do know for a fact Kyron was in his classroom first thing that morning and then was gone. His teacher knew he was there. She most certainly noticed later on he wasn't at his desk. The teachers and school staff are responsible for the health and safety of our children while they are on school property during school hours. It's an absolute shame that Kyron could be with his class and a short time later when he isn't, it's ignored.

But this goes back to whether or not the "appointment" was a fact or at least the allusion of one. If the teacher had legitimate reason to think that Kyron had left with his stepmom, why would she worry? And it would not be the business of a questioning child for her to fill him in on it, for example.

 

[gliving]

I think we can assume the school was somewhat remiss that day as policies were changed accordingly. New absence notifications, etc.

 

[DairyGirl]

At the end of the school day, if there was a student's backpack and jacket left at the desk or hanging on the wall, don't you think the teacher would notice that? Not only would she notice, but that should also trigger an automatic recall of the parent/volunteer asking about Kyron's whereabouts earlier in the day. Apparently the teacher commented that he had probably gone to get water or to use the restroom. Just to be on the safe side, I think most teachers would make a quick phone call to Kyron's parents to say, "Kyron's backpack and jacket are here...and also his science fair project. I'm double-checking to make sure he (fill in the blank)....had a doctor's appointment...left with one of you guys early today."

I would hazard a guess that it wasn't totally uncommon for a child to forget their backpack and coat at school. Seeing a backpack and coat at the end of the day would not cause me any alarm. Kids are fogetful. I can't tell you how many coats my children left at school, and a few backpacks, especially over the weekend.

 

[CarmelEyesD]

But this goes back to whether or not the "appointment" was a fact or at least the allusion of one. If the teacher had legitimate reason to think that Kyron had left with his stepmom, why would she worry? And it would not be the business of a questioning child for her to fill him in on it, for example.

If he had not been checked out (or signed out) at the office, then the school IMO had a responsibility to pursue his absence and not assume TH had him. Unless TH was actually seen putting him a vehicle. or walking out the door with him, absolutely NO doubt she left the school...the school has some culpability..JMO.

 

[BetteDavisEyes]

I still keep in the back of my mind the possibility that another family member - someone definitely known to Kyron - might have stopped by Skyline to visit the science fair and view Kyron's exhibit after Terri's departure. I don't necessarily have theory about what happened next, but it's not totally out of the realm of possibility that Kyron left the school with someone else in the family. jmo

 

[cluciano63]

If he had not been checked out (or signed out) at the office, then the school IMO had a responsibility to pursue his absence and not assume TH had him. Unless TH was actually seen putting him a vehicle. or walking out the door with him, absolutely NO doubt she left the school...the school has some culpability..JMO.

The school did not have those measures in place and all of the parents who sent their children to that school knew that. I would think that if the parents were concerned with the security measures of the school, they would have forced a change. Parents may have liked this little school for that very reason, who knows. They would know that the school did not call home for absences. And again, if Terri had told the teacher about an appointment, the teacher is not obligated to see Kyron into the car with her. We just don't know enough about that day.

And if Terri is the one who took Kyron, the school certainly has no culpability, as she had every right to take him out of school, as far as I know, What happened next, of course, is the part that she may have had no right to do.

 

[JBmom]

Kyron's jacket and backpack have been mentioned repeatedly in this thread, however, there has been no official confirmation (to date, as per the "Mythbusters" thread) that these items were found in the classroom. I just noticed the Mythbusters thread yesterday, and it is probably useful to peruse through the busts/confirmations (to avoid perpetuating rumors).

 

[Donjeta]

Dunno but I think they probably were found because LE published descriptions and photos of replicas of his clothing and glasses and said nothing about his backpack and jacket, which they would have if they were missing along with the other stuff, IMO.

EDIT: They may have been found somewhere other than the classroom though, for all we know.

 

[mchris1024]

Good theory, I'm beginning to think that something like this DID happen to Kyron. But, what about the failed polygraphs?? That always stumps me.

I failed a LDT when I was 19 and hold no faith in them because I told the truth.

 

[pinkpuddytat]

This is my opinion, that Kyron was taken from the school,either by someone he knew, perhaps slightly,or by a stranger. With regard to the Science Fair : I've chaperoned quite a few of them. In a school the same size as Skyview. I remember that it was very hard to keep an eye on who was coming and going, before we got cameras put in. IMO the worst part of this is the fact that hours went by before Kyron was even missed.It gave whoever took him a huge advantage. And I agree with e PP who wrote about the need for LE to clarify things before school starts again. Right now, all opinions are valid IMO.

All JMO

This is a point I've been wanting to zero in on for a while now. Basically no one other than Terri or an accomplice of Terri's would have been in a position to carefully plan out the abduction of Kyron from school that morning. So let's assume for the sake of discussion that it was Terri (realizing that it could just as well have been an accomplice of hers).

She plans some way to get him out of the building and away from the school grounds, without anyone seeing her do that, and then to either hand him off to someone or kill him and dispose of the body. The cell phone pings from Sauvie Island suggest that possibly that could have been the planned location for the hand-off or disposal, and though it's not terribly far away in miles, it's a significant distance from anywhere she would have had a plausible reason to be that morning. But if this or some comparably remote location was part of the plan (and if there was a body disposal close to the school, gym, or home, it's hard to believe it wouldn't have been found fairly quickly), how could she or *anyone* know in advance that they'd have a long stretch of time to hand him off or dispose of his body before the alarm went out that he was missing? How could she not have had to have a plan that could put her where she was supposed to be (and preferably with witnesses) within a very short time of leaving the school, to handle the expected call from worried school officials who could find Kyron?

There was a rumor early on that she'd said something to a teacher about a doctor's appointment on Monday that would make Kyron late, and speculation that the teacher might have gotten confused when she noticed Kyron missing and thought Terri must have meant the appointment was "today". But I think there's fairly well-documented evidence that when the teacher's aide taking attendance an hour or so after Terri left, noticed Kyron was missing, the teacher said something to the effect that he must be in the bathroom -- in other words, didn't say "don't worry, his mom told he had a doctor's appointment and would be back later". And at any rate, Terri really couldn't have deliberately set up something to make teachers not worry that Kyron was missing, without making herself instantly the number one suspect in his disappearance.

So what *was* her plan, in the event that his disappearance came to attention of school officials very shortly after she'd left? If she abducted him, she *should* have been expected a worried call from the school within a pretty short time. That might help explain why she left her cell phone on -- it would have been hard to explain why a mother going about daily errands would have had to have it off (not just ringer off, but totally off so that it wouldn't be sending out any traceable pings). There woud really have been no plausible explanation for even having the ringer off, unless she was somewhere with other people (e.g. working out at the gym) where it would need to be off to avoid disturbing others. So what was her plan for when the phone rang half an hour after she left the school, and a school official was reporting Kyron couldn't be found when the small groups were being assembled to tour the science fair (around 9AM, and then add 15 minutes or so that they'd have searched the school for him before calling his mother)? How would she explain not being able to get back over to the school very quickly, or at least give a verifiable account of where she was if she wasn't at home or at the gym or at some local store? If she still had him alive in the truck, what plausible story could she possibly make up that he wouldn't quickly refute? If she had his body in the truck . . . well, presumably she wouldn't have answered her phone, but they'd have kept trying, left messages, presumably called Kaine when they couldn't reach Terri, and probably called police as well.

It's just a big puzzle to me. We're saying over and over again how unfortunate it was that nobody at the school realized Kyron was missing until hours after he was last seen. But an inexplicably long delay in noticing he was missing strikes me as having been an absolute necessity for Terri's plan if it involved killing Kyron and disposing of his body, and even a hand-off would have required getting to a fairly remote location and quite a lot of certainty that the the handee wouldn't encounter any delays or cold feet. And yet I can't see how she could possibly have counted on getting that long delay. Aborting the plan while Kyron was still alive doesn't strike me as a feasible Plan B, because he'd be able to tell people what bizarre excuse his mother had given him to "quick, come out to the truck with me, we have to go somewhere", and what she'd said to him while driving. Not to mention that she would have a heck of a lot explaining to do about why she hadn't mentioned to anyone at the school, or to Kaine, that she was going to take Kyron away from school that morning.

 

[bessie]

Unless the teacher can testify that Terri came to her that morning and said that Kyron was leaving the school with her, then the school and the teacher hold a degree of responsibility. Regardless of the rules, or lack thereof, schools and their employees have an implied duty to guard the safety of the children in their care. A chaperone who couldn't keep track of five kids; teacher who non-chalantly assumes that the child was getting a drink of water or might have left with a parent because, oh, yeah, the parent mentioned something about a doctor's appointment; this place was a nightmare waiting to happen. Yes, I know that we lack specific information about how events played out at the school, but we do know that Kyron went missing under the school's watch, and since Terri has not been arrested then it's highly unlikely that she "checked him out" with the teacher or the office.

 

[teedie2]

Very early in the case, I considered the possibility (and may have posted about it) that a parent who felt that his/her child was somehow in competition with Kyron might have been jealous enough to want to hurt the boy. When I heard that another student had also done his science project on the tree frog like Kyron - an entry that was obviously inferior to Kyron's - I entertained the notion that this parent freaked out and targeted the Horman boy. This was one of my early thoughts about the case and why Kyron had gone missing from his school on the day of the science fair. jmo

That was my first thought, too. It still lingers in my mind. Not necessarily about the other tree-frog parent. Just any parent whose child's display wasn't up to Kyron's. Kyron's exhibit was quite professional looking. Looks like he had more to do with the little scene below than the display board above.

Kudos to you, you aren't afraid to post it!

Kyron is such a a cute kid ... I truly hope he is able to come back home.

 

[SmoothOperator]

This case really is quite baffling in so many ways. And as much as I am almost positively convinced that Terri acted completely alone in this, The actions alone are quite convincing (i.e. could the stepmom of this little boy be involved in such criminal activity such as MFH plot, NOT able to pass a poly[and its obviously questions directly about Kyron that she is failing, bio parents have stated this also] along with sociopathic behavior of complete self absorption in some quite inappropriate ways) Could all of these issues, actions, and involvement of Terri actually be COMPLETELY UNRELATED? I'd think it ALMOST IMPOSSIBLE, but then again there is that small possibility that all things to do with Terri are infact COMPLETELY UNRELATED to Kyron's disappearance. There is a case that comes to mind that fits this mold, and forgive me I cannot think of the victims name, maybe someone can remind me. But the daughter had disappeared, the suspicion was solely on the mother(as is here but SM), the mom could not pass a poly(as is here), and the mom was involved in criminal activity(as is here). All heat was put on the mom everyone believed her to be the guilty party, but they were all wrong and in the end the mom was cleared of any involvement of her daughter's death and reasons for her not passing a poly involved oxycontin(if I'm not mistaken) and criminal drug activity that she and her boyfriend were involved in. (Again if anyone knows the names and better details of this case please feel free to refresh my memory). But this case IMO proves that though very small chance, that there is indeed a very real chance that Terri's issues could not be related to Kyron's disappearance and that indeed someone else (IMO it would be most likely that it was complete stranger, unrelated in any way to any of the ppl involved, and is strictly a random, unplanned abduction, that a pedophile saw an opportunity that was too good to pass up) This is ABSOLUTE FRIGHTENING TO ME and I fear that LE is too fearful of the uproar that WILL OCCUR if suddenly this is found to be the case. In the back of my head I can't help but think that LE is turning a COMPLETE BLIND EYE to this possibility and that unfortunately for EVERYONE, especially Kyron, LE has COMPLETE TUNNEL VISION on Terri...

ETA- eyes4crime I may just end up owing you a BIG apology because I know I have in the past discounted some of your speculations of Tunnel Vision pertaining to Terri and if that indeed turns out to be the case I WILL BE THE FIRST TO GIVE YOU THAT APOLOGY :-0

 

[SmoothOperator]

That was my first thought, too. It still lingers in my mind. Not necessarily about the other tree-frog parent. Just any parent whose child's display wasn't up to Kyron's. Kyron's exhibit was quite professional looking. Looks like he had more to do with the little scene below than the display board above.

Kudos to you, you aren't afraid to post it!

Kyron is such a a cute kid ... I truly hope he is able to come back home.

The parent of K*****, the other boy that did the tree-frog project, is the woman who was interviewed stating she believed Terri was innocent and that she had allowed her son to go bowling with Terri and family 5 days before the disappearance(There's a thread that is solely about her interview in this forum)...

... She is also the woman who just recently lost her husband in a car accident and was left to raise 5 boys all alone :-(

 

[Chewy]

In a way the lack of certainty regarding Kyron being noticed missing at the school would, in my opinion point to someone who wouldn't care about that being noticed. A kidnapper kidnapping a random kid under the cover of a science fair.

 

[gwenabob]

Cluciano - you are right that we don't know exactly what the teacher said but we do know for a fact Kyron was in his classroom first thing that morning and then was gone. His teacher knew he was there. She most certainly noticed later on he wasn't at his desk. The teachers and school staff are responsible for the health and safety of our children while they are on school property during school hours. It's an absolute shame that Kyron could be with his class and a short time later when he isn't, it's ignored.

No one has ever confirmed that he was ever "with his class" that morning. We know people saw him touring the exhibits with his mom. Then when they were assembling to go tour with their groups, he was not there. Teacher may have thought he went to get a drink. When he didn't come back, she figured "Oh yeah, the Dr. appt Terri told me about. They went to that and he will be back later." When he didn't come back, she may have figured it took too long or they just decided not to come back for the rest of the day.

 

[gwenabob]

My mate is a teacher. Mate says it is the teacher's responsibility to make sure the students have their backpacks, lunch boxes and jackets when going home, especially in the primary years. Backpacks often have assignments and letters from the teacher. Some children only have one coat.

It's the parent's responsibility to make sure the lessons and notes return the next day. So if lessons are habitually forgotten, the teacher can assure the parent that the student had the lesson when they left school.

So if the student leaves school without the backpack or coat, is it the teacher's responsibility to drive it over to their house? At what point do natural consequences start taking effect?

I am with Human on this. Kids need to take responsibility for their own stuff. Teachers do not get paid enough to be nanny-nags.

 

[SmoothOperator]

If he had not been checked out (or signed out) at the office, then the school IMO had a responsibility to pursue his absence and not assume TH had him. Unless TH was actually seen putting him a vehicle. or walking out the door with him, absolutely NO doubt she left the school...the school has some culpability..JMO.

I think the difference here is that if the child was never counted present (as in when the role was taken and its been speculated it was taken at 9 others say at 10) but what ever the time it was taken if Kyron was not there to be counted as present, then there would be no reason, necessity, nor requirement of the child to be checked out, because he was never counted as being present...

Whatever the time the role was taken is irrelevant for this specific point because we know for fact that Kyron was marked absent at whatever time the role was taken, therefore there would be no reason for the teacher to be checking with the office to see if Kyron had been "checked out", officially he was not present, he was marked as absent.