What Is the Defense Strategy?

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Possible, but I highly doubt it, she comes with way too much baggage.

But that would play perfectly into their theory, wouldn't it? The baggage is all related back to whatever they choose to link her actions to. In fact, she could get on the stand and continue to tell the Zanny story. Let the State cross examine her, poke all the holes in her story they want. The defense can stand up and calmly say "See we told you her state of mind is such that she can not face the truth because of (fill in the blank here). Having her testify and stick to her original story would work to the advantage of the defense. I can see the Jurors thinking that 'there has to be something wrong with her if she thinks she can convince anyone that her story is true!'

By the way, thank you all for a fascinating discussion these last umpteen pages, you are all brilliant and I loved reading each and every post!
 
I think they just don't want to pick a side. They loved both Caylee and KC equally. They are stuck in the anger part of grieving. I have a friend who lost her husband over 10 years ago to Cancer and she is still angry over it. Sometimes you just get stuck. And I think that is where the A's are, stuck and grieving for both Caylee and KC. jmo

But all 4 of them? Not arguing with you ,LC,just thinkin' out loud.
In my experience we all seemed to "take turns" between incapacitating grief,anger and acceptance,but never all in the same phase at the same time.And 3 years is Looong time to continually stay in one phase. Also,there are times the grief wells up and takes you by surprise and there's no stopping it and no hiding it.
I read that CA cried at the end of Thursdays hearing. Some WSers were wondering what triggered it. That's the closest I've heard of CA showing grief and I hope it was for Caylee, or at least the little girl ICA USED TO BE.
For once I hope it was not wasted tears for the sociopath that killed Caylee.
 
But that would play perfectly into their theory, wouldn't it? The baggage is all related back to whatever they choose to link her actions to. In fact, she could get on the stand and continue to tell the Zanny story. Let the State cross examine her, poke all the holes in her story they want. The defense can stand up and calmly say "See we told you her state of mind is such that she can not face the truth because of (fill in the blank here). Having her testify and stick to her original story would work to the advantage of the defense. I can see the Jurors thinking that 'there has to be something wrong with her if she thinks she can convince anyone that her story is true!'

By the way, thank you all for a fascinating discussion these last umpteen pages, you are all brilliant and I loved reading each and every post!

Then they could have ca appear on the stand and say Caylee is alive...and living -----
 
Looking back to JB's meltdown,I can't help but wonder if he suddenly realized his challenge was not going the way he thought it would,and that's why he fell apart.Yes,he probably thought he could bring in anything he wanted to,since 'DEATH IS DIFFERENT' ,but I think the answers he was getting from Dr. Vass were so over his head (or so very simple) he felt....well.......thwarted !

That was a sad representation on jb part....then when he would try to out smart the good doctor....then say "layman" terms --- like all of a sudden he is above? It was sad...don't blame the good doctor for being frazzeled...I was myself---I also don't think he testifies all that much---but then you can only state the truth and scientific fact so many times and have someone contradict you....tell you it was like watching one of my moms doctors (first time they met)---try to access her in the midst of dementia---she could talk circle ease the best ever!---after that first appointment he said he needed and asprin....I had already taken mine---I'd been around the talk --- but it is frustrating to try to get someone to listen and the mind block....I felt the same frustration watching jb....it was sad and pathetic....and the paranoia over their computer screens....well went down that path with mom too....:maddening:
 
That was a sad representation on jb part....then when he would try to out smart the good doctor....then say "layman" terms --- like all of a sudden he is above? It was sad...don't blame the good doctor for being frazzeled...I was myself---I also don't think he testifies all that much---but then you can only state the truth and scientific fact so many times and have someone contradict you....tell you it was like watching one of my moms doctors (first time they met)---try to access her in the midst of dementia---she could talk circle ease the best ever!---after that first appointment he said he needed and asprin....I had already taken mine---I'd been around the talk --- but it is frustrating to try to get someone to listen and the mind block....I felt the same frustration watching jb....it was sad and pathetic....and the paranoia over their computer screens....well went down that path with mom too....:maddening:

I know what you mean. My mother told me the other day that when she was a kid she saw recipe for making creamed spinach in TV after school and she told her mother about it so my grandmother made it the very next day. Problem is, my mother is 86.
 
But all 4 of them? Not arguing with you ,LC,just thinkin' out loud.
In my experience we all seemed to "take turns" between incapacitating grief,anger and acceptance,but never all in the same phase at the same time.And 3 years is Looong time to continually stay in one phase. Also,there are times the grief wells up and takes you by surprise and there's no stopping it and no hiding it.
I read that CA cried at the end of Thursdays hearing. Some WSers were wondering what triggered it. That's the closest I've heard of CA showing grief and I hope it was for Caylee, or at least the little girl ICA USED TO BE.
For once I hope it was not wasted tears for the sociopath that killed Caylee.

They feed off each other. They literally have alienated everyone around them. I think CA was crying because she knows KC is at the end of another hallway. jmo
 
But that would play perfectly into their theory, wouldn't it? The baggage is all related back to whatever they choose to link her actions to. In fact, she could get on the stand and continue to tell the Zanny story. Let the State cross examine her, poke all the holes in her story they want. The defense can stand up and calmly say "See we told you her state of mind is such that she can not face the truth because of (fill in the blank here). Having her testify and stick to her original story would work to the advantage of the defense. I can see the Jurors thinking that 'there has to be something wrong with her if she thinks she can convince anyone that her story is true!'

By the way, thank you all for a fascinating discussion these last umpteen pages, you are all brilliant and I loved reading each and every post!

I have to wonder if the SA has an expert in Sociopaths, just sitting there patiently waiting in the wings .........
 
But all 4 of them? Not arguing with you ,LC,just thinkin' out loud.
In my experience we all seemed to "take turns" between incapacitating grief,anger and acceptance,but never all in the same phase at the same time.And 3 years is Looong time to continually stay in one phase. Also,there are times the grief wells up and takes you by surprise and there's no stopping it and no hiding it.
I read that CA cried at the end of Thursdays hearing. Some WSers were wondering what triggered it. That's the closest I've heard of CA showing grief and I hope it was for Caylee, or at least the little girl ICA USED TO BE.
For once I hope it was not wasted tears for the sociopath that killed Caylee.

Do you think though, MissJames, that we haven't really seen much of CA or GA in the last year or so? Every once in a while we see a bit of a blip of them in a hearing or in a news clip - but we really don't know what she does or thinks or how often she cries when she is sitting in that house, the same house where little Caylee ran down to hall to and from her bedroom. Or when she looks out of her kitchen window, and sees the pool. Are you thinking she doesn't grieve?

That's really hard for me to believe.
 
If they do go after GA, CA will have to choose. Will she defend him as staunchly as she defended ICA? She can't have her cake and eat it too....a house divided cannot stand and all that.
 
If they do go after GA, CA will have to choose. Will she defend him as staunchly as she defended ICA? She can't have her cake and eat it too....a house divided cannot stand and all that.

CA doesnt care what happens to GA. She's already dealt with him. It's ICA she's still trying to save. Ga is just collateral damage, and if he's in jail she doesn't have to support him or pay him half the mortgage either. :innocent:
 
I think they just don't want to pick a side. They loved both Caylee and KC equally. They are stuck in the anger part of grieving. I have a friend who lost her husband over 10 years ago to Cancer and she is still angry over it. Sometimes you just get stuck. And I think that is where the A's are, stuck and grieving for both Caylee and KC. jmo

Sounds like your friend is experiencing Complicated Grief, as I think the A's are.

http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/complicated-grief/DS01023
 
CA doesnt care what happens to GA. She's already dealt with him. It's ICA she's still trying to save. Ga is just collateral damage, and if he's in jail she doesn't have to support him or pay him half the mortgage either. :innocent:

They are all going to self-destruct from it.....If it weren't so damm tragic it would be interesting. OK it's still interesting...but sad. IMO
 
If KC doesn't woman-up she's doomed.

Saying that Caylee wasn't on Suburban would be same old/same old. More fibs from KC and trying to blame somebody else. George wouldn't leave Caylee's remains so close to the road. He wouldn't wimpily give up digging after a stroke or two. If he knew about the duct tape, there wouldn't have been duct tape on his gas cans for LE to photograph. Caylee wouldn't have been left in the laundry bag that had previously hung in Caylee's room.
.
An accident theory, AZlawyer's recommendation, I think might win over a juror or two. The psych experts wouldn't say KC had a split personality or anything like that. They would say, like a battered wife, KC's had become so reasoning-impaired from life in the Anthony house, that she behaved in ways that make her look guilty even though she is innocent.

KC would have to admit to lying and covering up Caylee's death (both givens anyway), but not to murder. The impaired reasoning part would be tough for KC to admit to, but Cindy said when KC gets cornered she usually "tells the truth" (she 'fesses up to smaller misdeeds to get away with the big ones). So KC already knows the drill.

KC's defense lawyers and their experts could say, "KC has spent a lifetime being terrorized by her father's temper, her father and her brother's abuse and the high expectations of her very strong nit-picking mother. A lifetime of abuse and belittling made KC an insecure wreck. She can't work. Whatever KC tried to do was never good enough...so why even try? Desperate to succeed at something KC went from man to man. Compliments from those men made KC feel worthy. In their arms she was good enough. But, all the men and the family dysfunction left KC confused and in turmoil. KC's confusion, her fears of being belittled and her low self-esteem crippled her to the point of being paralyzed,..for years. KC might have been 22 years old the summer of 2008 but inside she was still an immature little girl. Scared. Worthless. Powerless.

KC knew she had to do something but instead frittered her days away lulled by her soothing computer.Hour after hour passed without KC even realizing it. But the activity killed KC's internal pain.

KC forgot to watch Caylee.

"Caylee fell/choked/drowned/had a heart attack.

KC couldn't call anyone to get help after the "accident" because her parents would "know" about her ultimate screw-up. They'd blame her the way they always did. Caylee's death was proof positive that KC was the bad mother Cindy said she was. KC couldn't bear to face her mother's pain. Her shame was overwhelming. Also if KC called for help, her family would find out something else KC was ashamed of. Something besides not watching Caylee. To avoid being belittled KC had invented a "perfect" job. The lie compounded when KC had to make up Zanny so her family wouldn't know she didn't have a perfect job. She had to steal to keep her phone so she could text so she wouldn't feel her internal pain. She also had to lie more and steal more and send herself e-mails so Cindy would believe she had a job which made KC's esteem even lower.

Like a deer in headlights, KC didn't know which way to go. She headed to a "friend". Maybe that "friend" could somehow make her feel worthy...make her forget.

Yes, KC is a liar. But, KC's low self-esteem, her father's rages and her mother's belittling and competitive ways drove her to it.

When Caylee fell/choked/drowned, KC coped the way she'd learned to cope in order keep her sanity. She put on her happy face and lied. It is what she'd always had to do for peace and acceptance.

KC's misguided immaturity (brought on by her dysfunctional upbringing) led KC to try to cover up the accident. Horrifically.

What I believe might resonate the most with jurors is a story that includes some truth and rational reasons for KC's awful behavior.

My :twocents: is that the ONLY lie Casey will ever admit to is one she can say she told because of her parents. In other words, it's their fault & they made her do it. Especially if she can make them look mean & herself look a victim. Casey loves to play the sympathy card so if the DT can frame this so that she looks like she is an innocent who was forced to lie by her evil parents then Casey might go for that.

My question is wouldn't Casey have to take the stand to admit to lying? JB can't testify for his client and say "she told me she lied".

Obviously Casey can't take the stand so I'm not sure how the DT could work this.

Also, what kind of accident could have killed Caylee that wouldn't make Casey look culpable in some way? Because IMO Casey will never agree to ANY scenario that casts ANY responsibility for Caylee's death on herself.
 
And George is not quietly shocked and angry. If George suspects Jose is making him the SODDI I think George will turn on ICA in a heartbeat and say many many things about her.

George is only brave and a martyr when it doesn't count and he isn't tested on it. No way would this go quietly - he would blow skyhigh - IMO.

BBM. Truer words were never said!
 
But that would play perfectly into their theory, wouldn't it? The baggage is all related back to whatever they choose to link her actions to. In fact, she could get on the stand and continue to tell the Zanny story. Let the State cross examine her, poke all the holes in her story they want. The defense can stand up and calmly say "See we told you her state of mind is such that she can not face the truth because of (fill in the blank here). Having her testify and stick to her original story would work to the advantage of the defense. I can see the Jurors thinking that 'there has to be something wrong with her if she thinks she can convince anyone that her story is true!'

By the way, thank you all for a fascinating discussion these last umpteen pages, you are all brilliant and I loved reading each and every post!

She has more baggage than the lying. My significant other has been treated for PTSD for the last 2 years so I'm very familiar with it. (former navy seal). Anyhow, ptsd--although it could make one disassociate--is not known to make people steal from their family and friends so they can buy cheap clothes and beer and chips for their boyfriends, for instance. Nor would ptsd explain making up a job so she could have CA babysit while she went out partying with her friends, etc.
 
She has more baggage than the lying. My significant other has been treated for PTSD for the last 2 years so I'm very familiar with it. (former navy seal). Anyhow, ptsd--although it could make one disassociate--is not known to make people steal from their family and friends so they can buy cheap clothes and beer and chips for their boyfriends, for instance. Nor would ptsd explain making up a job so she could have CA babysit while she went out partying with her friends, etc.

I am sorry to hear about your situation. That must be tough and my heart goes out to both of you.

My question is whether the symptoms for PTSD from being in a war would be the same symptoms as those for PTSD from being sexually/emotionally abused in childhood. I think they would differ.IDK though.
 
My :twocents: is that the ONLY lie Casey will ever admit to is one she can say she told because of her parents. In other words, it's their fault & they made her do it. Especially if she can make them look mean & herself look a victim. Casey loves to play the sympathy card so if the DT can frame this so that she looks like she is an innocent who was forced to lie by her evil parents then Casey might go for that.

My question is wouldn't Casey have to take the stand to admit to lying? JB can't testify for his client and say "she told me she lied".

Obviously Casey can't take the stand so I'm not sure how the DT could work this.

Also, what kind of accident could have killed Caylee that wouldn't make Casey look culpable in some way? Because IMO Casey will never agree to ANY scenario that casts ANY responsibility for Caylee's death on herself.

I think she might take the stand if she can do so the explain away her previous lies and her 'ugly coping' behavior.

The reason she could not take the stand is because of all the zillions of lies, but if those are coming in any way--then why not.
 
She has more baggage than the lying. My significant other has been treated for PTSD for the last 2 years so I'm very familiar with it. (former navy seal). Anyhow, ptsd--although it could make one disassociate--is not known to make people steal from their family and friends so they can buy cheap clothes and beer and chips for their boyfriends, for instance. Nor would ptsd explain making up a job so she could have CA babysit while she went out partying with her friends, etc.

I agree. PTSD does not fit with ICAs actions or character flaws. I don't believe it will carry much weight.
I have PTSD from a very traumatic event which I still have a hard time coping with, yet I don't lie, steal or kill.
 
She has more baggage than the lying. My significant other has been treated for PTSD for the last 2 years so I'm very familiar with it. (former navy seal). Anyhow, ptsd--although it could make one disassociate--is not known to make people steal from their family and friends so they can buy cheap clothes and beer and chips for their boyfriends, for instance. Nor would ptsd explain making up a job so she could have CA babysit while she went out partying with her friends, etc.

SoCalSleuth, I'm so sorry for what your SO is going through ~ and it sounds like (former navy seal) that it was probably caused by something that happened while defending our country. Please give your SO my sincere thanks.

I, also, have two family members who are being treated for PTSD (and one has traumatic brain injury on top of the PTSD from his injury in the Iraq theatre) so I really empathize with you on many levels.

You are so right to point out that PTSD wouldn't make anyone steal and lie (and I sure haven't seen any evidence of that in my two loves) but I can sure see that it causes huge, really huge, character shifts. While I wouldn't be able to say PTSD makes anything happen ~ I think their hyper-drive to protect themselves allows these behaviors (subconsciously?) to surface. I'm sure, too, there are different degrees of PTSD so, naturally, some of those expressed behaviors could be either subtile or huge.

If this is a defense that Casey's team will be using, it makes me sick to my stomach. This is a hero's disease, a survivor's disease. It is not a convenient diagnosis that should be used to excuse immoral acts . . . they are belittling all those who struggle with it on a daily basis.
 
I am sorry to hear about your situation. That must be tough and my heart goes out to both of you.

My question is whether the symptoms for PTSD from being in a war would be the same symptoms as those for PTSD from being sexually/emotionally abused in childhood. I think they would differ.IDK though.

Thanks, it's a pretty frustrating & exasperating time for me--but obviously much worse for him. The diagnostic criteria for PTSD is the same regardless of the "trauma" that caused it. The gamut of symptoms are also the same, although not everyone has the same symptoms. BTW, lying is not a symptom.
 
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