Where Precisely Do You Think Caylee Died?

[Eidetic]

Come to think of it, beyond the video of Caylee as an infant, have we seen any images of Caylee in Casey's room?
I think Caylee probably really slept in George and Cindy's room.

All the pandas all over their room...

Wonder if the air mattress was really purchased for George so Cindy and Caylee could have the bed.

Quoting myself here...

I did find one picture of Caylee so far, that appears to have been taken in (the doorway to) Casey's room.

 

[Amil]

Respecfully Quoted hornswoggled
Not BBM

If Casey did (at least start to)kill Caylee in her bedroom and then took her out to the car, I would think she would at least remember to take Caylee's mama doll because that would be too suspicious. Maybe I am giving too much credit, she didn't take enough clothes to not seem suspicious-so I don't know.

Maybe even taking the mama doll would be an "automatic" for Casey. She did take a few of Caylee's items...and (sorry) alive or dead that would be a Caylee item high on the list.

But you would think she would have disposed of the mama doll with Caylee. I am sure other WSers have hit on this already but that is a new thought for me. Even if Casey took Caylee to stay with the nanny like she claims, wouldn't Caylee take her favorite doll/toy with her? Why would the doll still be in the car? Am I missing something obvious?

TIA

:cow:

Was the doll taken to Mt.Dora? If not, the doll might have been in Casey's car all day the 15th into the 16th. She might have gotten home on the 15th after Caylee was asleep so the doll remained in the car.

 

[Chiquita71]

Was the doll taken to Mt.Dora? If not, the doll might have been in Casey's car all day the 15th into the 16th. She might have gotten home on the 15th after Caylee was asleep so the doll remained in the car.

Respectfully Quoted Amil

I would think the doll went everywhere Caylee went, so I am going with the idea that the mama doll went to Mt. Dora with Caylee and came home(into the Anthony's house)with Caylee. I think it would have been an automatic for any one of the Anthonys to have taken Caylee's favorite toy where ever she went. And, if awake-Caylee could ask for her doll, most adults would want to be able to produce the doll for the child.

If the doll never did go to Mt. Dora and stayed in Casey's car-that would still leave us looking at the fact that the doll did not end up with Caylee. Why?

If the doll(among other items Cindy handed over)had a "smell"-I am speculating that the doll was in the trunk with Caylee at one time. That would mean Casey purposely moved the doll from the trunk. Unless the doll was found in the trunk-I am not sure on that information.

Also, if the doll were to show evidence of decomp from Caylee, that would mean both Caylee and the doll were put in the trunk while/when Caylee died/was dying. So Casey put the doll with Caylee when she put her in the trunk but did not put the doll with Caylee when she (sorry) dumped her.

Under: oh yeah I just remembered! I read that LE took part of the mattress from Casey's bed. Have I got that right? That is another reason I am thinking Casey killed Caylee in her bedroom. Would Cindy have seen LE/CSI taking the mattress? Would she be informed of this? What would LE be looking for or found, on the mattress that it would be taken as evidence? Decomp?

Maybe once Cindy realized it had happened at the house, probably maybe in Casey's bedroom-she then began to go with any story that made that not true. Any story that said Caylee died outside of Cindy's home.

We are saying that maybe Casey did not sleep in her room when she came home because that might be where she killed Caylee. But, in Lee's statement he says that he was talking to Casey while she was in her room, sitting on the bed and they were there for a while before LE came to their house. Also, didn't Casey and Annie sleep in Casey's room while she was out on bail? Maybe I am remembering that wrong.

I would think if Casey was able to kill Caylee in the first place, she probably wouldn't have any emotions about being in the place she killed her. She didn't mind driving around for (at least) two days with Caylee's body in the trunk of her car, either. Plus, between the 16th of June and July 15th-Casey was sneaking into her house and into her room to get her things. In one of George's statements to LE he talks about "gas can day" and how Casey was in the house, talking to him from her room saying she would go get the cans for him and him saying, 'no no I'll go.' If Casey killed Caylee in her bedroom, she was back in that room many times afterward. Doesn't seem like she has a problem with being in the room.

Speculation: Mama doll always goes with Caylee so Caylee is alive when she is put in the trunk. Maybe Casey has given Caylee something to make her groggy/sleep and Caylee falls asleep holding the doll. Duct tape is put on sometime after Caylee is sedated, either in the bedroom or in later in the car. If there was a heart shaped sticker on the duct tape, I lean towards the duct tape being put on in the room-thinking Casey would have stickers handy in her room more than in her car.

Am I correct in saying that WS has Casey pinging that day near her parents home? Isn't that another reason to say Casey didn't "take off" the night of the 15th/16th? Going with this information I can see that part of Casey's frustration that day was (maybe)Cindy telling her she wasn't allowed to go anywhere. That she couldn't take the car or Caylee anywhere that night. Casey storming into her bedroom with Caylee was the last time George and Cindy saw Caylee or spoke to Caylee. Casey killed Caylee in the room and waited till both George and Cindy were gone from the house which was the next afternoon, put Caylee in the car and then took off. In her calls to 911 Cindy refers to the Pontiac as "stolen." I think that's because she told Casey she couldn't use the car any more, or only when Cindy said so-told her that on the 15th and Casey took the car the next day. Cindy decided to buy into the story Casey called her with the next day, whichever story we have heard -bonding, jacksonville for work/busch gardens/hard rock cafe and not to play her hand regarding the car being stolen. But, when she found Casey at Tony's and had enough of being given the run around(it really had been a long time since she had any contact with Caylee-at all)and so that's why the first 911 call was about Casey stealing the car and not Caylee.

:cow:

 

[kileyizzle]

I think Casey's room.

1. She wouldn't sleep there...

2. Search warrant included pieces of the mattress...

Taking that into consideration, she used the vehicle to get around in for a long while after that occured...

If she refused to sleep in her room, why didn't she refuse to use the car?

 

[Tulessa]

Taking that into consideration, she used the vehicle to get around in for a long while after that occured...

If she refused to sleep in her room, why didn't she refuse to use the car?

Because the car served as a bedroom too?

 

[Just Jayla]

I understand checking on little ones but Caylee slept with Casey. Casey was what, 21/22 years old at the time? I just can't fathom any reason why a perfectly healthy adult mother would need her mother checking on her outside her bedroom door while she slept.

I don't necessarily put any stock into what CA is saying, but I think you are right that under normal circumstances she would not listen to her adult child-Maybe KC snuck out as a teenager and CA came into this habit? Of course, KC's car was there and no one that we know of was picking KC up from her house at night after hours, so listening would be unfounded.

 

[Eidetic]

One other thing I've always thought was strange about the breathing comment was the layout of the house. The master bedroom is on the opposite side of the house and right next to the garage. The neighbor said that George and Cindy parked their cars in the garage. It seems odd that Cindy would even pass by Casey's room on her way to work, let alone stop and listen to see if she heard breathing.

I think she brought up hearing Caylee breathing because she was in bed with her.

 

[okiedokietoo]

I don't necessarily put any stock into what CA is saying, but I think you are right that under normal circumstances she would not listen to her adult child-Maybe KC snuck out as a teenager and CA came into this habit? Of course, KC's car was there and no one that we know of was picking KC up from her house at night after hours, so listening would be unfounded.

How do we know KC's car was there?

 

[doogiesgirl]

I am wondering if Caylee was murdered in the pool. I can see KC telling Caylee they were going to play a pool game....taking her shoes off...putting duct tape on her and throwing her in the pool. Then KC used the pool ladder as a weapon to hold Caylee underwater. Caylee, with duct tape on her doesn't try to rip it off as she is fighting to get away from the ladder her mother is using to push/hold her underwater. Then after there is no life left, KC uses the ladder to "hook" Caylee and bring her up to where she can grab her and get her out of the pool. Did the dogs hit by the pool? IF so this could be why. She then takes her to the trunk, putting her in bags(or not yet) inside the trunk. Dogs hit on the trunk too right? I think it could be possible GA saw Caylee on the 16th as KC could have done this after he left.

Then once she has her bagged(or not?) in the trunk she goes back for her clothes & her doll to put into the trunk with Caylee. But she can't get to the ladder as it's in the middle of the pool and she can't find anything long enough to reach it so she goes next door and asks to borrow a shovel. She uses the shovel to "hook" the ladder and pulls it to the side. However she then leaves it up instead of taking it down as is C and G's routine. That's why they noticed the ladder up that day.

Anyway....until I have more facts...I think this scenario could be a possibility. MOO

 

[BondJamesBond]

FWIW, IMHO, the "Big Trouble..." shirt seals that it happened...

...away from G&C's.
...as Caylee was to be, or had been, put to sleep

 

[Just Jayla]

How do we know KC's car was there?

Early on, GA said the car was there when he got home, so he assumed KC was home and in bed. Of course any of it is suspect, because the A's have fibbed so many times. KC could have snuck the car out after hours, rolled it out of the driveway, etc., but that might be a stretch.

 

[Aedrys]

I just had a vision - yes - like a vision. I posted it on the inflatable bed thread cuz it happened while I was reading there.

CA was in the pool with Caylee on the 15th. CA is pissed at KC. KC strolls in. CA takes Caylee out of the pool and begins her fighting with KC. No one is paying attention to Caylee. Caylee returns to the pool.

This would explain the crazy behavior of this whole family. Pride keeps them from telling the truth. Pride is more important than the truth. They are depending on KC getting off and then they will never have to tell the truth. CA does not make mistakes. This is the ultimate mistake. Not in CA's script of her life.

Everything that has happened since is acting; acting in order to cover up the truth. Backing up the date of Caylee's disappearance was for the purpose of removing them from the pool, the backyard - they just forgot about the visit on camera to see ggp.

The only thing that doesn't make sense with that, Woebegone, is why they would let her rot in Casey's trunk. I can't imagine them stowing her body in the trunk of the car while they tried to figure out what to do. Casey may not have cared one iota for Caylee, but I can't see Cindy and George doing something like that. No, Casey did this on her own and it shows. She wouldn't be where she is if the family was involved. Caylee never would have been found if that was the case.

I do agree with Casey killing her in the house, probably sometime in the early hours of the 16th because I can't imagine her sleeping in the same bed with a dead child, then sneaking Caylee out to the car until she could figure out what to do next. What I've never been able to comprehend is why Cindy would let Caylee sleep with Casey after a huge fight like that. I'm wondering if that has been her guilt all this time and why she still fights for Casey everyday although you can tell she doesn't really believe in Casey's innocence anymore.

Casey was a time bomb waiting to happen, and unfortunately, when she finally went off, Caylee paid the ultimate price.

 

[Aedrys]

I believe the duct tape was used to kill Caylee.. not because it was the easiest or best thing to use.. why not use a pillow, for example? But because it was a deliberate show of 'See what I can do when you make me mad enough!!' message from KC to her mother. It smacks of a deliberate attemt to show CA that KC woud win the confrontation, come what may! Rippp..snip...tape.. Ripppp.. snip ..paste.. ripp ..snip ...paste.... slowly and deliberatly she cut that tape and covered that baby's face with it..

once she cooled off a little she decided to get rid of the body, rathr than leave it in the back yard or pool for mom to stumble across.. but I think she was always keeping her trump card handy, one day she would show her mother Caylee's body.. with the duct tape.. boy wouldn't THAT get her Mom going??

I don't think KC even considered the possiblity of being charged with murder.. all that existed in her mind was herself and her family.. in fact it seems to me she never even thought of police involvment until those 911 calls.. even then she didn't seem worried until Lee pointed out that the police would insist on seeing Caylee, and being sure she was alright..THEN she 'jumped up' as Lee put it.. a sudden realization that this wasn't a private family quarrel which she was quite capable of handling.. it was a serious matter involving LE. Why, some people might even call it murder!!! Time to make up some story to satisfy the police.. the nanny thing would do..unless they checked into it of course.

It seems to me that KC didn't have the faintest idea what police are really about, or that she really could be held accountable by them. All that she considered was her own small world.. family and friends.. and as long as she could control them, she had no fear of anything or anyone else.

Score one for KC..apart from the damage she has caused her own family and friends, she can also have the satisfation of knowing she has made me cry for poor little Caylee.

Bravo! ITA. I hadn't thought about the duct tape being used because it was Casey's way of blaming her parents for making her do it. This wasn't a surface rage to be played out in a matter of moments. This was deep seated rage that she carried out in a more methodical manner. And to show her her parents a dead Caylee, to have their last image of their beloved granddaughter with duct tape over her mouth and nose, how horrible and painful would that be? Killing Caylee was the ultimate revenge against her parents, especially Cindy. It was her of saying "See? You'll never have her, MOM. I brought her into this world and I took her out of it, just to keep her away from you!"

I just think she cooled down and lost the nerve to do that, and so the duct tape became part of a kidnapping instead. Maybe she realized she really had gone too far and crossed a line her family would never forgive her for, so she had to spin it in such a way that they would forgive her. A kidnapping scenario is perfect for making Casey the sympathized center of attention, and they couldn't possible stay angry at her if Caylee's death wasn't really Casey's fault. That's been the problem Casey's whole life. NOTHING is ever her fault, there is always someone or something else to blame, and she focused on doing what she's always done, lie and blame someone else. She literally doesn't know how to take responsibility for anything, and we saw that clearly in her fraud plea.

And the whole Casey in her own little world of family and friends also makes perfect sense. She probably believed her family, in the end, would just cover it up and make it go away no matter how bad it was or how they felt about her. She knew Cindy's love of the perfect family image would prevent her from throwing Casey out or calling in the police. They might be angry with her, sure, but they'd never make her pay any sort of price in her mind. She had no idea that they would even think about calling the police or that the police would ever be involved because that had never happened before with anything else she did. Her logic does not match our earth logic, so this would make sense to Casey. And she'd probably just lie to her friends so they would never know the real story, or just move on to a new group if the old one didn't believe her.

Kind of makes you wonder what other things this family covered up for her if she literally thought she could get away with murder with them! The thought that Caylee was so disposable in Casey's mind that she believed her family would just cover it up and clean up the "mess" for her sends chills down my spine.

 

[Harmony 2]

FWIW, IMHO, the "Big Trouble..." shirt seals that it happened...

...away from G&C's.
...as Caylee was to be, or had been, put to sleep

Hi BJB!! I like your new avatar!!

I agree with both statements in your assessment!!! I have considered and even researched several parks in the area of Tony's apartment and the Casselberry Walmart. I was just looking over at the June 16th ping map and in the discussion you mention the possibility of the parking lot at Tony's complex. I was looking at a park as a possibility because I thought the apartment complex would be too risky because of high visibilty. I noted an hour gap between 4:53 and 5:57pm when she was in that area. Bond would the Casselberry Walmart area ping off the same towers as the Sutton Apartments?

 

[BondJamesBond]

Hi BJB!! I like your new avatar!!

I agree with both statements in your assessment!!! I have considered and even researched several parks in the area of Tony's apartment and the Casselberry Walmart. I was just looking over at the June 16th ping map and in the discussion you mention the possibility of the parking lot at Tony's complex. I was looking at a park as a possibility because I thought the apartment complex would be too risky because of high visibilty. I noted an hour gap between 4:53 and 5:57pm when she was in that area. Bond would the Casselberry Walmart area ping off the same towers as the Sutton Apartments?

Thanks, Harmony.

A ping from the Casselberry Walmart would be easy to distinguish from Sutton Apts. HTH.

 

[Woe.be.gone]

The only thing that doesn't make sense with that, Woebegone, is why they would let her rot in Casey's trunk. I can't imagine them stowing her body in the trunk of the car while they tried to figure out what to do. Casey may not have cared one iota for Caylee, but I can't see Cindy and George doing something like that. No, Casey did this on her own and it shows. She wouldn't be where she is if the family was involved. Caylee never would have been found if that was the case.

I do agree with Casey killing her in the house, probably sometime in the early hours of the 16th because I can't imagine her sleeping in the same bed with a dead child, then sneaking Caylee out to the car until she could figure out what to do next. What I've never been able to comprehend is why Cindy would let Caylee sleep with Casey after a huge fight like that. I'm wondering if that has been her guilt all this time and why she still fights for Casey everyday although you can tell she doesn't really believe in Casey's innocence anymore.

Casey was a time bomb waiting to happen, and unfortunately, when she finally went off, Caylee paid the ultimate price.

Good point. I believe that Caylee would have remained in or around the house under these circumstances then, on the third day (or 2.7 days), would have been placed in the trunk to be transported. Or, for fear of anybody else seeing Caylee's body one of them along with KC, may have placed her in the trunk not knowing what else to do as they panicked. It's not logical but I believe it's possible. GA and CA have both acted very peculiar from the getgo and I wouldn't put anything past them. One or the other could be involved since day one. I don't feel protective of them because they act suspiciously. They both are protecting information that they don't want anyone else to know. It's unclear to me who is protecting whom and why though.

Frankly, I don't think they treat Caylee with any more respect than Casey does. They only allowed live searches, handed out wrong hairbrushes, spoke of handing over a toothbrush that belonged to the dogs, bought into KC's convoluted stories for over a month when Caylee was missing from their lives for the first time in her short life. I don't relate to the peeps who claim 'they never would have allowed that to happen' because imo they did - just not sure to what extent.

 

[LambChop]

Good point. I believe that Caylee would have remained in or around the house under these circumstances then, on the third day (or 2.7 days), would have been placed in the trunk to be transported. Or, for fear of anybody else seeing Caylee's body one of them along with KC, may have placed her in the trunk not knowing what else to do as they panicked. It's not logical but I believe it's possible. GA and CA have both acted very peculiar from the getgo and I wouldn't put anything past them. One or the other could be involved since day one. I don't feel protective of them because they act suspiciously. They both are protecting information that they don't want anyone else to know. It's unclear to me who is protecting whom and why though.
Frankly, I don't think they treat Caylee with any more respect than Casey does. They only allowed live searches, handed out wrong hairbrushes, spoke of handing over a toothbrush that belonged to the dogs, bought into KC's convaluted stories for over a month when Caylee was missing from their lives for the first time in her short life. I don't relate to the peeps who claim 'they never would have allowed that to happen' because imo they did - just not sure to what extent.

But would it have made sense for CA to call 911, or for CA to text message KC asking where Caylee was? And the message on the internet to KC from CA, "My Caylee is Missing". You certainly would not draw that attention to yourself if you were trying to hide a body. The only one not acting in a responsible manner during those 31 days was KC. JMO

 

[Woe.be.gone]

But would it have made sense for CA to call 911, or for CA to text message KC asking where Caylee was? And the message on the internet to KC from CA, "My Caylee is Missing". You certainly would not draw that attention to yourself if you were trying to hide a body. The only one not acting in a responsible manner during those 31 days was KC. JMO

Yes, it makes sense to me because CA may have been involved in the coverup/script since the day whatever happened happened. CA knew that they would have to report Caylee missing at some point. CA acted only upon finding out about the Pontiac and she waited hours to act even after retrieving the mysterious smelling car from the towyard. None of those behaviors are logical imo. She was buying time trying to figure out how to proceed. Any other person would have called 911 from the towyard. Think about it. It's suddenly hard for me to believe we've debated about this for this long. Your grown but immature daughter has taken your grandchild away from home for the first time ever, stayed away and has been vague about her whereabouts. Then you get word that her car is impounded, baby's carseat there, etc. So what do you do? Drive it home, clean it up, report to work. Then instead of called LE, you call your lying daughter's friend to help you locate your daughter because you trust her to come up with an honest explanation. DOESN'T THIS SOUND INSANE? The parents knew imo. We've all been drinking the kool-aid.

 

[affinity]

noooooo I very much doubt that CA was involved early. She was just very fed up having to be Caylee's 24/7 caregiver...so the truth is that she probably was pretty "happy" that Casey was gone (in the beginning). If you watch the jailhouse tapes--watch CA's demeanor as she becomes aware that KC isn't going to give them anything new re: Caylee's whereabouts. CA at one point literally pulls her own hair over and over. She looks so distraught. CA did not do anything to Caylee.

 

[TorisMom003]

noooooo I very much doubt that CA was involved early. She was just very fed up having to be Caylee's 24/7 caregiver...so the truth is that she probably was pretty "happy" that Casey was gone (in the beginning). If you watch the jailhouse tapes--watch CA's demeanor as she becomes aware that KC isn't going to give them anything new re: Caylee's whereabouts. CA at one point literally pulls her own hair over and over. She looks so distraught. CA did not do anything to Caylee.

I agree with you. I don't think that Cindy put two and two together until she called 911 the third time that night. Cindy and George both knew that someone had died and was in the trunk of Casey's car at some point when they were at the impound lot, however, they had no idea that the someone was Caylee. The only reason that I can see for Cindy to call 911 three times was to use it as leverage to get Casey to tell her where Caylee was. It was like a threat to Casey that she would tell Cindy what she wanted to know or Cindy would report to the police that Casey had been involved with someone's death. If Casey had been able to tell Cindy where Caylee was at that time then none of the 911 calls would have happened and Cindy and George would have continued to cover and clean up for Casey. I don't see how anyone else in the family could have had anything to do with Caylee's death, only Casey. I also believe that if D Casey had been able to find Caylee when Cindy sent him to the woods to look, that Caylee would have NEVER been found. Cindy was in cover up mode at that time and didn't want to lose Casey as well as Caylee. Cindy and George have both done horrible things during all of this in order to protect Casey but I don't think they helped Casey kill or move Caylee.

MOO