Where Precisely Do You Think Caylee Died?

[Marina2]

Marina,

Casey first said June 9th because that is what Cindy said. She doesn't play things over in her mind. She is a sociopath and says the first thing. She does not think 10 minutes ahead. Anyone else would have NEVER ridden around with a body in the car. Casey did and when the body started purging she got rid of her. But she was willing to drive around with her until it was convenient for her to be moved. She did not think of a body purging at all. She really does not think 10 minutes ahead. But you can think 2 minutes ahead and plan a murder, and wrap tape around your child's mouth and nose and that is premeditated. Casey is done and then some.

Oh, I'm sure KC did some plotting and planning during that month after she killed Caylee. I think some of it included the 9a to 1p time frame she gave to cover for events of that morning.

 

[Gma Kat]

One reason I feel that Caylee died prior to the afternoon of the 16th is that KC gave an alibi for Caylee being gone from that house starting at 9 am on the 16th. To me, this is probably the earliest KC felt anyone could say they hadn't seen Caylee. I think the 9 am to 1 pm time frame she gave for dropping her off has everything to do with when and where Caylee died. For an entire month, KC probably played the morning of the 16th over and over again in her head. By the time she gave her statement, that alibi was firmly fixed in KC's mind. She had a head start on GA and CA. As they relived that morning their stories kept changing.

GA may have been sleeping until 9 am. I think KC used the computer before GA woke that morning and after CA left for work. She did lock herself in her room until CA left for work, the one most likely to want to lay eyes on Caylee. In my theory, Caylee was already in the trunk before anyone woke that morning so she wouldn't have been roaming freely about the house with a body in the her bedroom. All she had to do was explain why she wasn't seen that morning which brings us back to the 9am to 1pm. I would never underestimate what KC would boldly do. She was just that kind of person.

I agree that KC headed for Tony's as soon as she was free to. Probably after coming to terms with what she'd done and after GA left for work. This would give her the opportunity to arrange and/or bag Caylee's body before taking off in the car. On a normal day, KC would have left that morning for TL's. This wasn't a normal day though... she had things to do. Things that couldn't be done until GA was gone. Do we know for sure when GA left the house that day? Could it have been around 1pm?

Now this post makes the perfect argument for my original theory that the death occurred on the 15th.....I feel so much like a waffle right now! Such good theories for both the 15th and 16th...the 15th sounds like the death occurred in either KC's room (where no one would be likely to just walk in) or in the car - the 16th pretty much just leaves the car to me, but I suppose the bedroom would still be a possibility.

I am going to stick with my answer - the car....but I am still waffling on the 15th or 16th now....:waitasec:

 

[KenoshaKid]

Yep, and who would have thought that Casey would write the letters she did and admit to using chloroform. The hits just keep on comin.

Before this rumor gets perpetuated, KC did not admit to using chloroform. Her inmate penpal said that she (KC) told her that. Big difference.

 

[Solace]

Before this rumor gets perpetuated, KC did not admit to using chloroform. Her inmate penpal said that she (KC) told her that. Big difference.

She writes about it in the released letters.

 

[LambChop]

She writes about it in the released letters.

KC did not write anything in her letters about choloform. She supposedly told an inmate. jmo

 

[Solace]

Oh, I'm sure KC did some plotting and planning during that month after she killed Caylee. I think some of it included the 9a to 1p time frame she gave to cover for events of that morning.

She plotted every day. She lied when she spoke to the detectives on July 16th and 17th. She planned to lie, but she obviously does not give it much thought or she would not have ended up at Universal with them saying "I Lied, I don't have an office here".

Andher excuses to her mother were on the spot. Cindy shows up at Universal (and Casey knew she was coming) and when Cindy arrives she calls Casey and Casey says I'm in Jacksonville. This woman is a sociopath who does not plan a thing. Nothing. That is a sign of a sociopath. They will do things to their own detriment. They will lie on the spot about anything; they will leave havoc in their way; they will lie when it is not even necessary to lie.

Leonard Padilla summed it up when he said this "woman does not think 10 minutes ahead".

I think she had a huge fight with Cindy - which the neighbors heard. She killed her child on the 16th after she left the house. Since she was home on the 15th and downloading photos on the morning of the 16th, I think it shows that George probably is telling the truth about saying goodbye to them around 1:00 p.m.

But again, there is premeditation when you wrap duck tape around a 2 1/2 year old's nose and mouth. You know it will kill them. That is enough for the jury - that is premeditated murder.

If she had not put the tape around Caylee's mouth, I would say it could be an accident, but since she did, it was intentional.

 

[Solace]

KC did not write anything in her letters about choloform. She supposedly told an inmate. jmo

You are correct LambChop. Thank you.

 

[LambChop]

You are correct LambChop. Thank you.

Hey, no problem. It's been misreported by the news stations. Still not sure they have gotten it right. lol

 

[LinasK]

Before this rumor gets perpetuated, KC did not admit to using chloroform. Her inmate penpal said that she (KC) told her that. Big difference.

It may be hearsay, but it works as an admission by Casey for me...

 

[Solace]

Hey, no problem. It's been misreported by the news stations. Still not sure they have gotten it right. lol

I guess the best way to keep to the truth in this case is to read the depositions. The audios are fascinating. I think what I find most interesting about the case is how the family is willing to live this lie. But then again, Cindy is use to living a lie as she let Casey lie to her every day about work, deposits in the bank and stealing regularly from her family. So I guess this is not that much of a stretch.

It is just so insane and also no one is standing up for Caylee. She lost her life and Cindy and George are not standing up for her at all. I realize they don't want to lose another child, BUT, they are not unwilling to put the blame on another YOUNG person, e.g. Amy, Tony or Ricardo. They know what they are doing is wrong but why do they have to implicate the innocent is what makes them so cowardly in my mind. Lee is doing it also and he justifies it by saying Tony has some low friends.

The family is beyond.

 

[LinasK]

I guess the best way to keep to the truth in this case is to read the depositions. The audios are fascinating. I think what I find most interesting about the case is how the family is willing to live this lie. But then again, Cindy is use to living a lie as she let Casey lie to her every day about work, deposits in the bank and stealing regularly from her family. So I guess this is not that much of a stretch.

It is just so insane and also no one is standing up for Caylee. She lost her life and Cindy and George are not standing up for her at all. I realize they don't want to lose another child, BUT, they are not unwilling to put the blame on another YOUNG person, e.g. Amy, Tony or Ricardo. They know what they are doing is wrong but why do they have to implicate the innocent is what makes them so cowardly in my mind. Lee is doing it also and he justifies it by saying Tony has some low friends.

The family is beyond.

It's the pot calling the kettle black!

 

[Jolynna]

Great post. Where did you find out that she uploaded the pictures on the family's computer on June 16th? Thanks in advance.

JWG first posted about it. He got a copy of Casey's subpoenaed Photobucket records from Muzikman when they were released for discovery. They were not published through the media.


Here's a link to the thread where all of this was heatedly discussed: [ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3644680&postcount=472"]Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Theories On What Happened to Caylee Part #5[/ame]


Here's one of many of JWG's posts that Casey posted a photo of FUSIAN, not a video about Caylee, to photobucket on June 16: [ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3504899&postcount=9"]Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Casey uploading video on morning of June 16th?[/ame]


More about the day:
[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3505059&postcount=19"]Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Casey uploading video on morning of June 16th?[/ame]


Casey put the picture of Fusian on her Photobucket account at 10:27 : [ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3644680&postcount=472"]Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Theories On What Happened to Caylee Part #5[/ame]




Post confirming the Anthony IP address: [ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3504655&postcount=4"]Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Casey uploading video on morning of June 16th?[/ame]



Lots more on the linked thread and others that specifically discuss June 16.

 

[KenoshaKid]

deleted.

 

[Solace]

JWG first posted about it. He got a copy of Casey's subpoenaed Photobucket records from Muzikman when they were released for discovery. They were not published through the media.


Here's a link to the thread where all of this was heatedly discussed: Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Theories On What Happened to Caylee Part #5


Here's one of many of JWG's posts that Casey posted a photo of FUSIAN, not a video about Caylee, to photobucket on June 16: Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Casey uploading video on morning of June 16th?


More about the day:
Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Casey uploading video on morning of June 16th?


Casey put the picture of Fusian on her Photobucket account at 10:27 : Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Theories On What Happened to Caylee Part #5




Post confirming the Anthony IP address: Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Casey uploading video on morning of June 16th?



Lots more on the linked thread and others that specifically discuss June 16.

You are awesome. Thank you.

One more thing. I see Casey uploaded a picture of Fusion at 10:27 a.m. the morning of June 16th on the home computer. There was heavy usage in the afternoon. Casey's pings put her in the area of her home. Does she really have the audacity to come back to the house after she killed Casey leaving her in the car? I know that on another timeline I read that she came back home around this time - 3:00 p.m.? Interested in what you think? Or anyone else. Thanks.

• Moderate usage 12 - 1 AM PROBABLY GEORGE
• Heavy usage 7 - 8 AM - CASEY??
• Light usage 8 - 9 AM - GEORGE???
• Heavy usage 10 - 11 AM CASEY - WE KNOW FROM THE PICTURE OF FUSION
• Moderate usage 11 AM - Noon - GEORGE?
• Heaviest usage 2 - 3 PM CASEY - GEORGE IS GONE - PROBABLY CASEY
• Light usage 11 PM - midnight - GEORGE - CASEY IS WITH TONY

WHAT DO YOU THINK OF THE ABOVE?

 

[Solace]

Here is an interesting timeline from Prairie Chicken:

June 16 Interesting flurry of phone calls from Casey’s cell phone on this day as follows:
3:03 to dad’s cell
4:10 to mom’s work
4:11 to mom’s cell
4:13 to mom’s cell
4:14 to mom’s work
4:19 to Tony Lazzaro
4:21 to Jesse Grund
4:24 mom’s cell
6:32 mom at home
6:33 home voicemail
7:06 mom at home
7:20 Amy

June 16, 2008 phone calls and texts:
8:46am Casey calls Tony (pings start at Anthony house.)
11:47am Tony calls Casey
12:53pm Casey calls Tony (having just left the house to go to work per George)
12:55pm Tony texts Casey
1:00pm Tony calls Casey (call about 14 minutes) 1:00-1:14, 12 min. later
1:26pm Casey texts Jesse 12 min. later
1:37pm Casey gets text from Jesse
1:44pm Casey calls Amy 36 minutes 1:44-2:20, 32 min. later
2:52pm Casey gets call from Jesse 11 minutes 2:52-3:03
3:03pm Casey calls George
3:04pm Casey gets call from George. 25 seconds.
Casey and Caylee return to the house then 31 min. later
3:35pm Casey calls Tony 22 seconds 35 min. later
4:10pm Casey calls Cindy at work
4:11pm Casey calls Cindy cell
4:13pm Casey calls Cindy cell again
4:14pm Casey calls George 98 seconds 4:14—4:16
4:18pm Casey texts Tony (pings now appear to be travelling away from Anthony home)
4:19pm Casey gets text from Tony
4:19pm Casey calls Tony
4:21pm Casey calls Jesse twice; second call 75 seconds 4:21—4:23
4:25pm Casey calls Cindy cell 3 seconds (now pinging near Tony's apt)
6:31pm Casey calls Cindy
6:32pm Casey calls Cindy
6:33pm Casey calls home leaves voicemail
7:06pm Casey calls home
7:20pm Casey calls Amy
7:21pm Casey calls Amy 42 seconds
8:03pm Casey checks Voice Mail
8:03pm Casey gets text from Mark Hawkins.
10:45pm Casey gets text from Amy
11:17pm Casey gets text from Mark Hawkins.
.
8:00pm-ish Casey and Tony are on tape, seen at video rental place

 

[Chiquita71]

Hello WS

Interview with LE
August 1st, 2008
Cindy Anthony

LE: On this week, on the conference week, do you ever get on the phone, do you remember...

CA: I talk to her everyday.

LE: Every day you talk to the baby?

CA: No, I stopped talking to Caylee, the last time I talked to Caylee was the 15th. I did not have a conversation with Caylee after that, and...

LE: What time was your last conversation, do you remember?

CA: With Casey?

LE: Uh, no Caylee.

CA: Sometime on the 15th, when we put her to bed. Now George had a conversation with her in the morning, she was there in the morning, had breakfast and the normal stuff.
(end)

I wonder if George and Cindy really did physically "put Caylee to bed" on the night of the 15? Where did Caylee sleep? In Casey's room or George and Cindy's? Would Cindy have said she and George put Caylee down if it had been in Casey's room?
Why did George and Cindy slowly back further and further away from the contact they had with Caylee on the night of the 15th and the morning of the 16th? Here Cindy admits to putting Caylee to bed but it was George who sees Caylee in the morning as Cindy has already left for work. At one point it was George who gave Caylee breakfast and even put her in her car seat. Soon though, the story changes and we find George just "sitting almost right where he was sitting now" during a GVS interview. George and Cindy's new version has George watching one of his most favorite shows, which at first he thinks is a news program(he "specifically" knows the exact time) and then remembers it was on the Food Network but still does not automatically offer the name of said favorite show. :waitasec:

Interview with GVS
August 5th, 2008
Cindy and George Anthony

CA: No, it's June 15th, Father's day, which was mistaken early on because, you know I never even thought about what day Father's Day was. I just, I knew it was a Sunday in June I had taken that video, and I knew that was the last day I physically saw her, even though I knew where she was sleeping the next morning. My husband actually saw Caylee and Casey leave on the 16th of June.
GVS: All right. So the 15th is Sunday, Father's Day. Everything is normal everything is fine. The next morning is the last day that either you or George saw her. Do you remember what time of day it was?
GA: Oh, specifically I remember it was 10 minutes to 1:00 on Monday the 16th.
(note: WSers have found that Casey may have uploaded a single picture from Fusian at 10:27 a.m.)
(skip)
GA: I was watching a favorite TV show I like to watch on TV, a news...
CA: (interrupts) Before you go to work...
GA: Yes, it was a Food Channel thing I watched, so...
GVS: And was it...you were watching here in the living room?
GA: Right, and I was sitting right here, almost in the same spot, just watching it, and saw my granddaughter and daughter come out, you know, with their backpacks and...
CA: (interrupts) Like any other day.
GA: Just like a normal type thing.
GVS: Do you know where they were headed with the backpacks?
GA: My daughter said that she was going to work, dropping her daughter off at the Nanny's house, and that was it. I give them both hugs, kisses and saw them go out the door like a typical thing that they've, that she's done.
GVS: Nothing out of the ordinary?
GA: Just smiles, hugs. "Dad, we'll see you tomorrow because I might be working a little bit late, type deal. And that was it.

(There is no 'skip' here in the conversation, I just wanted to make a point about this part)
GVS: Now, I know you won't reveal the details, but can you just tell me, has Casey told you what happened to that child?
CA: Yes. In her way. And I can't reveal that.
Cindy has just stated that Casey told her what happened to Caylee "in her way" and that she(Cindy)could not "reveal that."
GVS: But in her way, so that, I mean I know that it was at least reported that you came out the other day and said that Casey said that Caylee was close, which is you know, rather vaugue. Is that, is that the kind of information that, Cindy you have or do you have like, specific information that satisfies you?
CA: She just feels that Caylee's close, she's still safe.
Wait!! I thought Cindy said she could not reveal what Casey had told her regarding what had happened to Caylee?

This isn't where we are sleuthing the information that Casey uploaded a picture at 10:27 on the 16th, but I can see it would fit in with George's story about that morning, time line wise. In this it would seem Casey did kill Caylee away from the house? If George did see Caylee eat breakfast and put her in her car seat around "ten minutes to one" then Casey could have uploaded the picture around ten thirty.
But!! Why would George and Cindy back away from this story? Isn't it good that they saw Caylee alive with Casey on her way to the "nanny's?"

Anyway...

...JS...

 

[scrabble]

Interesting.

 

[LiveLaughLuv]

Your post got me thinking, Chiquita...

I'd have to rethink things if GA truly saw ICA and Caylee leave that afternoon. I was so sure ICA stormed out the night of June 15th, 2009 after this alleged altercation with CA that turned physical..that Caylee was killed in a rage, the rage ICA held for her mother, CA...JMHO

If and that would be a big IF, GA did see them leave, then I'm thinking ICA put Caylee to sleep in the trunk of her vehicle, watched movies with TonyL, slept over his apt and awakened to an already deceased Caylee due to the Florida heat/possibly putting her to sleep with chloroform or some other form of medication..

GVS: Now, I know you won't reveal the details, but can you just tell me, has Casey told you what happened to that child?
CA: Yes. In her way. And I can't reveal that.
Cindy has just stated that Casey told her what happened to Caylee "in her way" and that she(Cindy)could not "reveal that."
GVS: But in her way, so that, I mean I know that it was at least reported that you came out the other day and said that Casey said that Caylee was close, which is you know, rather vaugue. Is that, is that the kind of information that, Cindy you have or do you have like, specific information that satisfies you?
CA: She just feels that Caylee's close, she's still safe.
Wait!! I thought Cindy said she could not reveal what Casey had told her regarding what had happened to Caylee?

Playing riddle me this, Batman?

If CA has knowledge after the fact, she too can face charges! What is this woman thinking??? She's close, she's still safe??? Well 3 months later and Caylee's remains are found so we know she was never safe!

CA is the biggest hiprocrit, she has that double standard thing going on. The more she talks, the more she makes ICA look bad, guilty and the only one with a motive..ICA's hatred runs deep, the resentment is shown many times, truly a love/hate relationship...in the middle of it all, a precious child is deemed allegedly missing and not one time has this family spoke out for Caylee, the only true victim in ICA's madness...the rest of the family is collaterally damaged, yet, still can speak out as if ICA is innocent and played no role in Caylee's demise. How do they sleep at night being OK with blaming innocent people...***shakes head and waits for Karma to catch up***!

Justice for Caylee

 

[debbie0604]

This is my opinion only. I think she premeditated it based on the searches on the computer. I think she may have tried to chloroform her but either it was weak or Caylee didn't want to breathe it, (maybe she had been chloroformed before and the vapors burned). She duct taped her mouth and nose forceably... She also duct taped her hands. I think from KC's reaction during JA's speech of 12/11/09, it could be possible that KC saw Caylee die, but that's my opinion only. She then placed her in the bags and put her in the trunk until she could figure out what to do next. Until then, she wouldn't worry about it. Caylee would out of her worries for now. IMO, it was cruel and heinous. By the way, I think this took place in the home, not sure which room though. I think she may have thought about burying Caylee in the backyard, which is why the dogs hit in the back yard, and the reason for borrowing the shovel, but that's my opinion.

 

[Bathbuddys]

Hi, no I'm sorry I don't. It was at the very beginning of the case, around the time of the decomp in the trunk and the cadaver dogs. It's something I think LE may be holding close to the vest, just my opinion. Or it could be nothing - but I definitely remember it.

I will answer this as I also remember it. The scratches were on the outside of the trunk so therefor maybe from the remains site?