Who molested/abused Jonbenet?

[TeaTime]

The head bash didn't happen in the car on the way home. We know this because of the presence of the pineapple.

 

[CoreyRocks]

They left it open to debate in the transcripts. You cant even get a clear answer from either of them on whether she's awake, goes into the houses with them, etc.

You asked one of the million dollar questions....why weren't all the gifts dropped off? If the reasoning is because its late and the kids are asleep, wouldn't this decision have been made at the Whites before going on this little journey? It appears something may have interrupted this trip. If not, why be so damn vague about it?

More details are needed on that party. Was Patsy or John drinking? Any tension between the two? If so, this could have easily carried over into the car.

Without the stop offs for gifts in between the distance is very short. I googled it ages ago. The stories about the gifts are so vague. Who got out of the car and for how long ...... moo

Ok just googled again 2 miles only, almost an exact straight line. Remember two miles only.

 

[PositiveLight]

The head bash didn't happen in the car on the way home. We know this because of the presence of the pineapple.

Good point!

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[Ambitioned]

I think y'all may be on to something. Is it possible the kids were left in the car while one of the gifts were delivered and the kids got in a fight and JonBenet was hit? Putting an end to the deliveries to rush home? Could something that was in the vehicle have caused the injury? Is it possible they had been fighting all day? The car ride and exhaustion built up the tension and bam? That would explain John carrying her in too. Also would explain why the lights were all turned off inside and outside to keep neighbors from seeing anything. Would also explain why they used Christmas as her death date. The vaginal trauma may have been done to hide previous assault. Meaning there wasn't "actually" sexual assault that night it was just made to LOOK like it was. They had to make it look like a pedophile did this crime. In all the running around, maybe they didn't even realize she was still alive. The final ligature caused her death before placing her into the wine cellar. Honestly I don't think they would have changed her clothes even if they were wet. That might signal remorse. It had to look like some crazed pedophile broke in the home. Of course this theory has holes too. Like when and what was she poked with? There's so many possibilities except the intruder theory.

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I wondered too. Thought the true bills may have been suggesting child abuse/neglect as in them dropping the kids off and going to party or dropping off gifts and what not. No one really knows if they came home with the kids right?

 

[CorallaroC]

MAYBE the bash happened in the car. And JB wasn't carried upstairs cause she was asleep but unconscious.

Could be the reaspn they INSIST so much tha she was asleep. Neighbours could have seen JR carrying her.

It is still not clear to me who went to drop off gifts on their way home. Who stayed in the car with JB and why weren't all gifts dropped off? IIRC they still had ppl to visit but didn't?

I have had similar questions! For anyone who has read or wants to review the recent NatEnQ, word search it for BR's answers about general squabbles he might have had with JBR in the car. IIRC, his answer was something like "NOT THAT RIDE". IMO that answer is very telling and a lie.

 

[UKGuy]

MAYBE the bash happened in the car. And JB wasn't carried upstairs cause she was asleep but unconscious.

Could be the reaspn they INSIST so much tha she was asleep. Neighbours could have seen JR carrying her.

It is still not clear to me who went to drop off gifts on their way home. Who stayed in the car with JB and why weren't all gifts dropped off? IIRC they still had ppl to visit but didn't?

madeleine,
No, then she wouldn't be able to eat any pineapple.

.

 

[Heymom]

BBM

Agree (it was most likely put aside in advance of the meal, not after). And I'd never read that JB turned down the crab that night.

Regarding this quote (post #1633):
The fecal material would/could have included the crab. There's no way to tell. Due to the process of digestion, about the only things we can really identify in feces are those things that bodies don't process so well, like peanuts and corn - right? As for it being green - two things are known to cause feces to turn green: high sugar content and purple food. So - cake, cookies, grape kool-aid, grape jello, purple food coloring, etc.

The pineapple was found in the proximal small intestine (the end closest to the stomach). Meaning it had been the last thing consumed. It was fairly readily identifiable and had been poorly chewed.

Pineapple is very fibrous and doesn't break down easily in the intestines, so it's more identifiable.

 

[MURDERER_SERVANT]

A question about the head bash because of JB eating B's pineapple scenario ?
AR says the pineapple was digested and appeared in the beginning part of small insestine iirc.. Was she that long alive after the head bash for it to be there ? It takes 2-3 hours approx. I guess.. And does the digestion go on as fast as if one is unconcsious ?

 

[TeaTime]

A question about the head bash because of JB eating B's pineapple scenario ?
AR says the pineapple was digested and appeared in the beginning part of small insestine iirc.. Was she that long alive after the head bash for it to be there ? It takes 2-3 hours approx. I guess.. And does the digestion go on as fast as if one is unconcsious ?

Experts opine that JBR survived the head blow and that she was alive when strangled between 45 minutes and 2 hours later. Digestion is an involuntary function like breathing and heartbeat, so it continues even when the person is unconscious.

The estimated time of death is 1am on 12/27. The Ramseys put themselves getting home at about 10:00pm, JR and BR staying up for about 1/2 hour and BR then going downstairs after everyone was asleep. The pineapple was after he went downstairs alone, so the timing of the digestion is on target.

 

[Heymom]

Experts opine that JBR survived the head blow and that she was alive when strangled between 45 minutes and 2 hours later. Digestion is an involuntary function like breathing and heartbeat, so it continues even when the person is unconscious.

The estimated time of death is 1am on 12/27. The Ramseys put themselves getting home at about 10:00pm, JR and BR staying up for about 1/2 hour and BR then going downstairs after everyone was asleep. The pineapple was after he went downstairs alone, so the timing of the digestion is on target.

You mean 12/26.

 

[madeleine]

They left it open to debate in the transcripts. You cant even get a clear answer from either of them on whether she's awake, goes into the houses with them, etc.

You asked one of the million dollar questions....why weren't all the gifts dropped off? If the reasoning is because its late and the kids are asleep, wouldn't this decision have been made at the Whites before going on this little journey? It appears something may have interrupted this trip. If not, why be so damn vague about it?

More details are needed on that party. Was Patsy or John drinking? Any tension between the two? If so, this could have easily carried over into the car.

http://www.acandyrose.com/s-susan-n-glenn-stine.htm

Narrator: On their way home around 9 PM, they dropped off gifts. Susan Stein and her husband were the last people known to have seen the family before the murder.

Susan Stine: "They came to our house and I talked to Patsy for awhile maybe 10 or 15 minutes and they all seemed perfectly normal. They were all the same - bubbly about Christmas and about where they were going and we, my husband and I, waved good-bye to them as they were leaving and that was the last time we saw them as an intact family."

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forgot where the maps are....how far was the Stines house from the Ramsey house? So all 4 were at the Stines house?

 

[madeleine]

JR is contradicting her LOL


And
21 she came back out and we went to the Stines and
22 she had a gift for them.
23 LOU SMIT: Now did you and Burke and JonBenet
24 stay in the car, do you remember?
25 JOHN RAMSEY: I don't remember.
0109
1 LOU SMIT: You stayed in the car at the Walkers?
2 JOHN RAMSEY: Oh, the Walkers, yeah. I think we
3 all three stayed in the car.
4 LOU SMIT: And then you go to the Stines?
5 JOHN RAMSEY: Right.
6 LOU SMIT: How far a drive is the Stines?
7 JOHN RAMSEY: Two minutes, three minutes.
8 Pulled up out the front of their house. Patsy
9 certainly went in, I don't think I did. I don't
10 remember if Burke did or not. I don't think
11 JonBenet did. But I don't remember for sure.
12 It wouldn't have been unusual for Burke to go in
13 because that was his buddy, Doug.
14 LOU SMIT: Did you have a gift for Doug?
15 JOHN RAMSEY: I don't know. I know Patsy
16 probably, but I don't recall. And then we debated,
17 we had a gift for the Fernies and we debated
18 whether we should go over there. But that's
19 probably 15 minutes away and we wanted to get home
20 and to bed. And we didn't know what time we would
21 get back. So we left the Stines and drove home.
22 LOU SMIT: So your concern then was mainly you
23 didn't want to spend that extra time (INAUDIBLE).
24 Why?
25 JOHN RAMSEY: Well, it was 15 minutes over
0110
1 there and both the kids might want to go in and it
2 would have been half an hour, 45 minutes before we
3 went home. And we had to get up early next
4 morning. They were tired. They had been up all
5 day. So we said, well, we'd do that when we got
6 back.
7 LOU SMIT: So when you leave the Steins,
8 Patsy returns or whatever and that's just a short
9 distance to your house, I imagine. What? Just a
10 couple of minutes? And was Burke asleep at this
11 time (INAUDIBLE)?
12 JOHN RAMSEY: JonBenet, when we pulled into
13 the drive, she was sound asleep because I remember
14 getting her out of the car and she was just out.
15 LOU SMIT: Let's stop here.
16 JOHN RAMSEY: Okay.

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he doesn/t remember if he went in ?GMAFB!

And Smit?? Let's stop?? Is it not weird that she just fell SOUND asleep in seconds??

 

[madeleine]

Can you really forget who you visited the evening your child was murdered??

GMAB!!!

 

[PositiveLight]

I am dumbfounded by how forgetful they are. Jesus this isn't an average day. This is the night your daughter was brutally murdered! Every moment should be carved into your brain! That investigators never called them on that ******** is amazing to me!

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[Heymom]

I am dumbfounded by how forgetful they are. Jesus this isn't an average day. This is the night your daughter was brutally murdered! Every moment should be carved into your brain! That investigators never called them on that ******** is amazing to me!

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The Magic Fairy Forgetting Dust is given out by attorneys. It's part of their fee structure.

 

[PositiveLight]

The Magic Fairy Forgetting Dust is given out by attorneys. It's part of their fee structure.

Hahahaha!

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[Djoop]

Can you really forget who you visited the evening your child was murdered??

GMAB!!!

Assuming he was lying, what was he trying to hide by keeping that unclear?

 

[Tortoise]

http://www.acandyrose.com/s-susan-n-glenn-stine.htm

Narrator: On their way home around 9 PM, they dropped off gifts. Susan Stein and her husband were the last people known to have seen the family before the murder.

Susan Stine: "They came to our house and I talked to Patsy for awhile maybe 10 or 15 minutes and they all seemed perfectly normal. They were all the same - bubbly about Christmas and about where they were going and we, my husband and I, waved good-bye to them as they were leaving and that was the last time we saw them as an intact family."

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forgot where the maps are....how far was the Stines house from the Ramsey house? So all 4 were at the Stines house?

Stine's house 816, 10th Street
Ramsey's house 755, 15th Street

0.4 miles.

 

[singularity]

That's a hop, skip, and a jump. Hell...it would only take a few minutes to walk that distance.

 

[OliviaG1996]

I notice a few inconsistencies when adding together JR's and SS's stories about the Christmas present delivery visit. (B&UBM from madeleine's post):

http://www.acandyrose.com/s-susan-n-glenn-stine.htm

Narrator: On their way home around 9 PM, they dropped off gifts. Susan Stein and her husband were the last people known to have seen the family before the murder.

Susan Stine: "They came to our house and I talked to Patsy for awhile maybe 10 or 15 minutes and they all seemed perfectly normal. They were all the same - bubbly about Christmas and about where they were going and we, my husband and I, waved good-bye to them as they were leaving and that was the last time we saw them as an intact family."

In the above, SS's account of the visit is insinuating the entire family visited the home. Referring to the visitors as, "all", and the, "intact family" supports this. "All" of the Ramseys seeming "bubbly" also insinuates JBR was not asleep, which contradicts JR's version of the story.

The "I don't remember"s on JR's part when it came to who went inside makes me wonder if he and PR dropped the kids off at home while they visited the Stines, perhaps to drink? Or maybe JR dropped PR alone at the Stines' and went home with BR and JBR? This may explain the Stines' sudden close relationship with the R family after the murder- they were being "good friends" and covered for them, possibly because one or both of the R parents had been drinking and would be deemed negligent by the public.

I'm convinced the Stines, possibly only Susan, know way more than they're saying. Her impersonation of Chief Beckner comes to mind as one of the reasons why. Just thinking aloud here.