Why was JB killed?

[DeDee]

Apologies are not necessary, ukrberserker23. All of us want justice that has been denied for JonBenét.

My post was removed because I stated people's names that I thought attended the Christmas Party at The White's on the 25th. I did not have a link for tying them to the crime as they have not been named a suspect in the case. This is what Salem had to say when she removed my post:

If you want to discuss and sleuth someone, you need a link from MSM or LE showing they are a named POI/Suspect.

Salem

Also, about the cigarettes, Patsy did smoke until she quit while living in Charlevoix after the crime or at least that is her claim.

At the CS, detectives removed two cigarette butts from outside near the broken window and grate. It has been my impression that fecal matter was in the basement toilet as well as smeared on a basement wall.

As always, moo

 

[Pink Panther]

I remember when I first heard about this case many, many, many years ago that I was utterly shocked that the parents had hired PR people (almost immediately). I'm still shocked about this and I still believe it's very telling about what actually happened to this little girl. My other impression (and I'm not part of any "elite") was what the hay was this rich woman of means doing putting her daughter into these revoltingly "kitsch" beauty pageants?

Many years later, I have the same questions. I still think that the parents were either directly involved or knew what the circumstances were around her death.

my two cents

moo

ETA - I have followed many cases over many years. This one and the Maddie McCann case seem so obvious (tpdi) that I have never commented on either case prior to this post. I feel bad for the siblings in both cases. Forever scarred by their "outspoken" parents.

 

[ukrberserker23]

Well, I may be going off on a tangent, but I did some more research. If you Google images of JBR, you will see that in most of her pageant pictures, she is wearing some combination of red, white, black, and celeste blue. These are Illuminati color combinations, and signals to all other Illuminati. I think it has been stated that PR picked all of JBR's outfits for the pageants. If you don't buy this, just Google up pictures of Princess Diana. She wore the same color combos at all official functions.I'm still working the Satanic Ritual angle, but haven't found any solid evidence yet.

 

[DeeDee249]

Apologies are not necessary, ukrberserker23. All of us want justice that has been denied for JonBenét.

My post was removed because I stated people's names that I thought attended the Christmas Party at The White's on the 25th. I did not have a link for tying them to the crime as they have not been named a suspect in the case. This is what Salem had to say when she removed my post:

If you want to discuss and sleuth someone, you need a link from MSM or LE showing they are a named POI/Suspect.

Salem

Also, about the cigarettes, Patsy did smoke until she quit while living in Charlevoix after the crime or at least that is her claim.

At the CS, detectives removed two cigarette butts from outside near the broken window and grate. It has been my impression that fecal matter was in the basement toilet as well as smeared on a basement wall.

As always, moo

While it is true that NO ONE who was in the house at the time of the murder can be cleared until and unless a killer is identified BY NAME, none of the guests at the White's party (including the Whites themselves) have ever been named as suspects by LE. So that puts them on the "hands-off list as far as discussing their guilt. Some of them (I believe the Whites complied) gave DNA and handwriting samples. None of the male children were tested as far as I know, even as adults. Being a POI (person of interest) isn't the same as being a suspect. In the first hours of the investigation, pretty much anyone who was close to JB and her family could have been considered a POI initially, but the pieces began to fall into place fairly soon as far as LE was concerned. It didn't take long to rule out nearly all of them. As far as those cigarette butts- you'd hope they were tested for DNA- which could have determined whether they were smoked by Patsy. But I doubt it or we would have seen it somewhere.

 

[midwest mama]

I can understand the bowl of pineapple being a red herring. It represents the falsehood that fortifies that JB was at home, alive and dining, before her death.

How often have we read on this forum that the AR [Autopsy Report] regarding the sexual trauma, in particular, was vague? The reason why is clearer to me when viewed in the light of Anyhoo's theory.

Then, I began considering midwest mama's comment from post 220: "If there was a responsible group active in Boulder for ring activity, they would have had a need for a coroner who could help with a cover-up." and decided to have another look at the AR.

G.I. Tract: The esophagus is empty. It is lined by gray-white mucosa. The stomach contains a small amount (8-10 cc) of viscous to green to tan colored thick mucous material without particulate matter identified. The gastric mucosa is autolyzed but contains no areas of hemorrhage or ulceration. The proximal portion of the small intestine contains fragmented pieces of yellow to light green-tan apparent vegetable or fruit material which may represent fragments of pineapple.

It is uncanny that Coroner Meyer immediately decided the fragments were pineapple before any tests were performed on the substance. Couldn't it have just as easily been fragments from an orange? I've read posts that would speculate that the fragments must have been large, partially chewed chunks of pineapple in order for the coroner to discern the fragments were indeed pineapple.

omo moo mho and all that jazz

The pineapple was forensically matched to the R's pineapple. Lou Smit said it was the bugaboo. But if JB had been killed earlier (beginning with a head bash during party time), would there still have been time for her to have a bite of it before heading for the Whites? Especially if she ate it a little later than the time the R's offered for the time they left for the Whites. Time lines as we know rhem are ACCORDING TO THE RAMSEYs testimonials, IIRC.

 

[elannia]

I believe JBR's death was intentional and not accidental. I think it was a matter of necessity that she die, in the mind of the killer. Why would someone think it necessary to kill a six year old girl? Because of what she knew and would undoubtedly tell if she were allowed to live. She had to die to protect a secret. This secret was more important than JB's life, even to her parents.

I am just wondering. Was there a big secret party(none if us know but just saying) would the ramseys be involved in that sort of thing? They dont look like the type but you just never know. Were they really exploiting their daughter to the "people" from different places. Would they have just stood and watched while someone killed her and then these "people" forced(or maybe they werent forced) the ramseys to cover up this secret.
If she died at this party did they go home and start arranging all of this fake stuff and cover up? Was PR forced to pen the RN. Were there others there in the we hours to help with the staging. When PR said "we didnt mean for this to happen" that means something. What were theybdoing that they didnt mean for that to happen. when JR made the comment "I dont think he meant to kill her" who did he mean. All of the fighting with the BPD and the DA office and lawyering up and not wanting to take the case to the GR, who and then the GR returning an indictment and then not being prosecuted. If the ramseys are covering for someone(s) they must have been in some deep you know what to take all the heat from this case and being dragged thru the mud(including burke)did these "people" say ok you all are going to take the rap for this but we will make sure you get no conviction. I wonder who all was involved in this cover up and what they were doing and just how much it meant to the Ramseys reputation if people found out about it. Cause look where it got them with being blamed as her killers if they didnt but know who did. the photo of patsy looking over her grave to me is almost like she is ashamed and so distraught almost like she is pleading to her. Sorry for such a ramble

 

[Tricia]

I agree. When JonBenét mentioned, to Kostanick, an impending "secret" visit from Santa the context in which the statement was made indicates, IMO, JonBenét was speaking of "Santa" Bill McReynolds. There was also a torn up note/card from Santa found in JonBenét's bedroom wastebasket.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Please remember Santa Bill is not a suspect. He has passed away and I really don't want to see his name associated as a suspect.

Just wanted to remind everyone.

Thanks,
Tricia

 

[midwest mama]

midwest mama,
BBM: I think she was, but this does not preclude her from staging JonBenet's homicide to mask an alleged BDI, as a JDI does not preclude him from staging an alleged PDI, because it threatens him personally.

The clue to who did it lies in the staging!

.

Yes. If JB was bashed in the head at a location other than the Ramsey house, then brought back home, unconscious (there was time for this according to Kolar's book) and it became evident JB was not going to return to consciousness, then the R's would have had to finish the deed, complete with the contrived note.

This is from JR's book, "TOSOS, pgs 118 (!) and 119, which I found especially unsettling:
"The good news is, Jesus gives us power in His name over Satan's influence and actions. Once I understood this truth, I began to push against and resist the devil's intentions to destroy me. He had already robbed me of enough. I had an injured and exhausted soul, and I began proclaiming, "Enough!"
"I had to stop focusing only on our problems. I had to make peace with what was happening to us, the memory of my child's dead body, her little arms tied over her head, her mouth taped closed forever. I had to let go of my child's brutal murder, and abandon my hopeless outlook for my future."

I guess it is the addition of the word "forever" to that underlined sentence that rocks me. I can see him relating the details of her body with the tape over her mouth. But once the word "forever" is added, that makes me think the taping was, in his mind, something that would indicate she would never talk to anyone about anything again. As if he knew exactly why the was tape was placed over his daughter's mouth......

 

[southernmimi]

How and where are we imagining JB received her head injury if not at her home? From what I've seen online, her head injury was massive and would have required significant force. It's very hard to think they could transport a child, who had this much damage, around in their car and never take her to get help. IMO, all of her injuries happened in her own home...

 

[midwest mama]

According to the account given by the R's, adding in the ransom note and "finding" JB'S body in her home, we look to the home as the most logical total crime scene. If she got that bash at any location outside her home and was brought back by her parents, or anyone else for that matter, it was because there was something too bad going on for the R's to be able to deal with at that moment. Imagine them showing up at an ER and trying to explain away a head injury that lethal as an accident. Not to speak of the other injuries she had once a full examination would have been done.

 

[ukrberserker23]

Let me play Devil's advocate here. The R's stated they stopped at several friends houses on Christmas evening. What if the head bash was given at one of these stops? What if there was a secret party on the way home? Burke would have been coached, and too scared to rat them out. He could be next. 90 minutes is plenty of time to get her home from a friend's house.

 

[southernmimi]

She was a damaged little girl in so many ways.

 

[Mama2JML]

Please remember Santa Bill is not a suspect. He has passed away and I really don't want to see his name associated as a suspect.

Just wanted to remind everyone.

Thanks,
Tricia

My sincere apologies...

FWIW, I did not/do not intend to project suspicion on any person(s). I do believe, however, the 'events' I mentioned (and many more) deserve scrutiny. Making connections among 'facts' and our combined analyses of the events immediately prior to and following JonBenet's murder are valuable components to arriving at a cohesive, valid & testable conclusion.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Mama2JML]

The cord and tape were not sourced to the home, but (re: head injuries) a couple of items collected from the property appear 'suspect' and, also, have characteristics consistent with the weapon used to inflict the skull fracture. For this reason (and the theory Anyhoo has proposed) it seems more likely strangulation preceded the head blow and much less likely the head blow happened elsewhere before the strangulation occurred in the home. JMHO.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[midwest mama]

The cord and tape were not sourced to the home, but (re: head injuries) a couple of items collected from the property appear 'suspect' and, also, have characteristics consistent with the weapon used to inflict the skull fracture. For this reason (and the theory Anyhoo has proposed) it seems more likely strangulation preceded the head blow and much less likely the head blow happened elsewhere before the strangulation occurred in the home. JMHO.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

The most accepted conclusion of the timing of the head blow, using several years of reported data from respected experts, presents the head blow occurring prior to the ligature strangulation. If there was a master plan to make the entire crime appear as if it had happened at the Ramsey home, there would have been as many items "planted" as necessary to achieve that portrayal.

The cord was connected to purchases made by Patsy just prior to the murder which might have been purchased initially by her to use as a transport sling for her paintings between home and class. The tape was connected to the possibility of having come from an American Girl doll (which JB had) or the back mount of one of Patsy's paintings. True, there were no other pieces of cord or that tape found in the home, but it doesn't mean they didn't originate there.

I believe the ligature was applied to JB in her home. The tape, IMO, could have been applied pretty quickly after the head bash, and if that occurred in another location, the tape could have been there as well.

 

[Chelly]

The cord and tape were not sourced to the home, but (re: head injuries) a couple of items collected from the property appear 'suspect' and, also, have characteristics consistent with the weapon used to inflict the skull fracture. For this reason (and the theory Anyhoo has proposed) it seems more likely strangulation preceded the head blow and much less likely the head blow happened elsewhere before the strangulation occurred in the home. JMHO.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Forgive me if this has been asked and answered: What would be the purpose of a head blow if strangulation occurred first? TY.

 

[DeDee]

The partial strangulation was part of the erotica. The head bash was because JB was not cooperating. The complete strangulation was last. Just a possible reason....

 

[lawstudent]

Forgive me if this has been asked and answered: What would be the purpose of a head blow if strangulation occurred first? TY.

Not sure if this fits with the autopsy, but if she was strangled in a frenzy and then the person realized they had to stage a murder, the person could have tried to frame it as a head injury. But then when they went to remove what was used to strangle her, they saw the marks and realized they couldn't pretend otherwise. I think people have to remember how stupid most people are about what can be found in autopsies, even more so back then, even though it wasn't long ago. Now all the crime shows spotlight all the tricks, but people are still so stupid. People poison their spouses and don't think anyone can trace it. So many people still text about murders with the person they are having an affair with. Only recently have I seen a few crime shows where the perpetrator was smart enough to leave a phone behind or shut it off because the GPS tracking has become so widely known.

 

[DeDee]

I am just wondering. Was there a big secret party(none if us know but just saying) would the ramseys be involved in that sort of thing? They dont look like the type but you just never know. Were they really exploiting their daughter to the "people" from different places. Would they have just stood and watched while someone killed her and then these "people" forced(or maybe they werent forced) the ramseys to cover up this secret.
If she died at this party did they go home and start arranging all of this fake stuff and cover up? Was PR forced to pen the RN. Were there others there in the we hours to help with the staging. When PR said "we didnt mean for this to happen" that means something. What were theybdoing that they didnt mean for that to happen. when JR made the comment "I dont think he meant to kill her" who did he mean. All of the fighting with the BPD and the DA office and lawyering up and not wanting to take the case to the GR, who and then the GR returning an indictment and then not being prosecuted. If the ramseys are covering for someone(s) they must have been in some deep you know what to take all the heat from this case and being dragged thru the mud(including burke)did these "people" say ok you all are going to take the rap for this but we will make sure you get no conviction. I wonder who all was involved in this cover up and what they were doing and just how much it meant to the Ramseys reputation if people found out about it. Cause look where it got them with being blamed as her killers if they didnt but know who did. the photo of patsy looking over her grave to me is almost like she is ashamed and so distraught almost like she is pleading to her. Sorry for such a ramble

They dont look like the type but you just never know.

The Devil Wears Prada

patsy looking over her grave to me is almost like she is ashamed and so distraught almost like she is pleading to her

That cemetery scene was a PR [public relations] move. Why is Patsy holding her hands at her throat? Why doesn't she place her hands on her chest, where her heartache and pain would be, over her heart?

I wonder who all was involved in this cover up and what they were doing and just how much it meant to the Ramseys reputation if people found out about it.

Well, the Rs brought in hot shot Fat Cat attorneys whose office building was nicer and more grand than the Governor's Mansion.

http://www.hmflaw.com/building-history.html

The opulent staircase:

http://www.hmflaw.com/attorneys.html

Research who their clients have been including, but certainly not limited to, Timothy McVeigh and Gary Hart.

Also, look at who the DAs office brought in to assist them. Hint: TH Who else did the Rs hire? Hint: JD And who switched sides:

"The Republican candidate for Boulder County District Attorney is raising questions about a former prosecutor's decision to take a job with a friend of John and Patsy Ramsey.

David Sanderson said Trip DeMuth's move shows the Boulder County District Attorney's Office is a "deeply rooted, incestuous establishment."

http://web.dailycamera.com/extra/ramsey/2000/30atrip.html

Look at PRs interview. The investigators had more allotted time but they chose to tell PR that they had no further questions for her.


JMO based on information available in the public domain.

 

[DeeDee249]

She was bashed on the head first because she screamed (from whatever caused the vaginal bleeding). The strangulation was meant to provide a VISIBLE cause of death, as the head bash was not apparent looking at her. Im fact, it wasn't apparent until the autopsy, and according to LE present at that autopsy, it was a shock to all when the coroner pulled back her scalp and saw the fracture. Every expert who studied this case, including LE and some who saw either the autopsy or photos of it, agree that the head bash came first. I can think of only one forensic specialist who felt otherwise.