WI WI - Evelyn Hartley, 15, La Crosse, 24 Oct 1953

DNA Solves
DNA Solves
DNA Solves
I just finished reading all 26 pages here and wanted to chime in with my uneducated opinions LOL!

I think there's a good chance Evie would have been able to identify the burglars. I think she threw her shoe down into the basement when she heard noises (I can't guarantee I wouldn't do the same thing and I'm the mother of 3 LOL), and when she realized there were actual people down there, she freaked out and ran to get to the phone in the living room.
She was caught by the skinny kid (college student?) and there was a scuffle and she was knocked out. He dragged her to the side of the house, she woke up and started screaming and the bigger guy hit her with the crow bar they were using to try to open windows. They knew she could identify them, so they argued over what to do (long enough for the puddle of blood by the side of the house to form), but it was dark and they probably didn't know how much she was bleeding and that she'd likely die so they decided to take her. They carried her one with the arms, the other with the legs and brushed up against the side of the other garage, leaving that trail.
They probably set her down to argue a little more over what to do in another basement window, maybe contemplating opening the window and shoving her in there, figuring it would give them time to run before she's found.
I'm guessing one of them maybe though of the other uses of a female (maybe liked her before all of this happened) and pushed to take her, the weaker of the 2 personalities gave in and as they neared their vehicle they had to look less suspicious so they propped her up in between them to look like they were helping her (Mr. X saw this).
I think Dad might have taken longer than we expect because he probably knocked for a few minutes, walked around the other side of the house and didn't notice anything suspicious. Maybe walked to a neighbors house and knocked on their door to use their phone to call the house again but they weren't there so he headed back, started knocking again and yelling this time. Decided to go to the back of the house and saw her glasses and shoe and then found the open window. In the panic of the moment, he didn't think about the crime scene, just his daughter so he slipped into the window and saw the shoe at the bottom of the stairs and ran through the house searching for her, realizing that this was REALLY bad, he came to his senses and knew he needed to leave and get help. This is the part he recalls. The beginning knocking part might have been completely forgotten in his panic? Or he might have gotten his time incorrect of when he left his house, maybe he stopped and got gas on the way? The person answering the phone at the police department might have thought he was just being a paranoid dad and took a few extra moments to note the call and call an officer to stop by?
I was a child of the 80's and I had a belt menstrual pad at one point. Worst thing EVER and so uncomfortable, but would explain why her underwear were found, but no pads.
Someone mentioned that the dad thought maybe all the blood was menstrual blood. The person who mentioned it thought it was strange he would say that. Maybe as she was arguing to not babysit for this family she said something about it being that time of the month and she wasn't feeling great. So that could be one of the last things she said to him before they told her she agreed to it and needed to follow through. I don't think the average man knows exactly how much blood is involved (especially not in the 50's), and that it wouldn't be THAT much blood.
I hope that there are actual answers soon :( I'm guessing she's in a field somewhere these kids worked and knew the field wouldn't be used for a while so no one would notice a dug up patch under a tractor or something.
I also think that the siblings know that the police have Evie's DNA. They know they have the hair curlers, pads, likely toothbrush, hair brush, menstrual pads, etc. So they don't feel the need to give their DNA to rule out anyone, when as far as they know, all of that is usable. I think perhaps if they were told there was a really close match that needed to be ruled out, they might step forward and give samples. But right now, with all of the evidence the police collected, there's no point.
.....those are just my uneducated ramblings :)
 
What I've been thinking about is... could any of her father's students at the university have a grudge against him and went after Evelyn? Or, did a student have a grudge against Prof Rasmussen and wanted to do damage to his home? The student finds out Rasmussen is going to homecoming and decides to burglarize. He may not have meant to hurt/kill/kidnap Evelyn, but she was there... screwed up his plan... she had to be done away with.
 
I have the book. It is very well written. From what I have read on these posts, they are pretty spot on. I have also been in the home in the last couple of years. The basement windows are very small. I found that part of the investigation questionable. It could be that she ran to the basement to get away and they caught up with her. I don't know, but to drag her through those small windows does not make sense.
 
I don't think they will ever find her. What is interesting to me-the guy that killed that state senator's daughter in Chicago, Valerie Percy-I wonder if he could have done this.

No one was convicted or even charged with the killing of Valerie Percy. The killer you refer to, I assume, is based on a book where one person (the author) has a vested interest in selling his theory. It doesn't mean it's true. You need only review the numerous books that allegedly identify the Zodiac to know they cannot possibly all be true.

I personally think Valerie Percy was killed by someone she and/or her family knew very well who was quite familiar with the home. I really cannot imagine a connection to this case.
 
I found something curious on Reddit http://www.***********/r/UnresolvedMysteries/comments/21twbk/evelyn_hartley_the_missing_babysitter/

There is a comment that someone left-

[–]abinaderus 16 points 4 months ago
My mom lived a block from Evelyn and went to school with her at (old) Central. The guy bragging on the tape at the Raven, was Clyde Peterson, known as "Tywee" to his friends.
Peterson claimed on that tape made in 1968, that in October 1953, he and Jack Gaulthair (then 24 in 1953) kidnapped Hartley, and that Gaulthair did the stabbing.
Gaulthair supposedly later blew his head off with a shotgun out of guilt.
Hartley went missing on 24 October 1953.
Gaulthair had a history of this stuff. Almost exactly two years before, on 25 October 1951, Gaulthair (who was 22 then, and lived in LaFarge, along with Peterson who also stayed in LaFarge when he wasn't in jail) and his then 28 year old buddy Marion Driscoll, were sentenced to two years of probation for abducting a different girl, a girl named Donna who was 15 at the time (same age as Hartley when she disappeared!). Another guy, Richard Compton was also involved, but he was not charged.
Gaulthair and Driscoll appealed, and their case went to the WI Supreme Court (Judge Currie) on 3 February 1953, 8.5 months before Hartley disappeared. The case in on record.
There are two people who know what happened. Both live in LaCrosse, both were friends with Hartley, and both are still alive. There may be others, but these two people know. Evelyn Hartley originally met Gaulthair in LaFarge, where some Central students went to drink and party back then. Evelyn was the studious type, but she had a wild side. Gaulthair knew where Evelyn was babysitting that weekend, because Evelyn told him when she found out she was replacing the regular babysitter just a couple of days beforehand, because the regular babysitter had to cancel out a few days beforehand.
I will give the facts to a person who lives in LaCrosse, and who guarantees to see it through. I will not give the facts to those who are just curious. Let me know right here on this page. Nobody I know of has ever questioned these two people.


Considering the source, take it with a grain of salt but I thought I would share because if anyone is a member of Reddit maybe they can get more information from this individual.
 
I found something curious on Reddit http://www.***********/r/UnresolvedMysteries/comments/21twbk/evelyn_hartley_the_missing_babysitter/

There is a comment that someone left-

[–]abinaderus 16 points 4 months ago
My mom lived a block from Evelyn and went to school with her at (old) Central. The guy bragging on the tape at the Raven, was Clyde Peterson, known as "Tywee" to his friends.
Peterson claimed on that tape made in 1968, that in October 1953, he and Jack Gaulthair (then 24 in 1953) kidnapped Hartley, and that Gaulthair did the stabbing.
Gaulthair supposedly later blew his head off with a shotgun out of guilt.
Hartley went missing on 24 October 1953.
Gaulthair had a history of this stuff. Almost exactly two years before, on 25 October 1951, Gaulthair (who was 22 then, and lived in LaFarge, along with Peterson who also stayed in LaFarge when he wasn't in jail) and his then 28 year old buddy Marion Driscoll, were sentenced to two years of probation for abducting a different girl, a girl named Donna who was 15 at the time (same age as Hartley when she disappeared!). Another guy, Richard Compton was also involved, but he was not charged.
Gaulthair and Driscoll appealed, and their case went to the WI Supreme Court (Judge Currie) on 3 February 1953, 8.5 months before Hartley disappeared. The case in on record.
There are two people who know what happened. Both live in LaCrosse, both were friends with Hartley, and both are still alive. There may be others, but these two people know. Evelyn Hartley originally met Gaulthair in LaFarge, where some Central students went to drink and party back then. Evelyn was the studious type, but she had a wild side. Gaulthair knew where Evelyn was babysitting that weekend, because Evelyn told him when she found out she was replacing the regular babysitter just a couple of days beforehand, because the regular babysitter had to cancel out a few days beforehand.
I will give the facts to a person who lives in LaCrosse, and who guarantees to see it through. I will not give the facts to those who are just curious. Let me know right here on this page. Nobody I know of has ever questioned these two people.


Considering the source, take it with a grain of salt but I thought I would share because if anyone is a member of Reddit maybe they can get more information from this individual.

I saw that the other day too. Intriguing but, I struggle with it. Why wouldn't anyone tell LE after all this time? It sounds like a group of people know/knew, and I don't know why every single one of them would keep it to themselves after all this time. Unless they did tell LE. But, it didn't sound totally made up either. The LaFarge angle has been discussed here before - it's interesting that OP tied to that story - it has always been one of the more likely ones to me. Those are interesting details they add in that seem totally plausible.
 
I agree very interesting details and they seem to fill in some blanks. Everyone has always gone on with Evelyn being so studious and "goody goody"..if she really did have her "wild side" and did go down and party in LaFarge and knew these older men..it just makes sense to me what happened was planned(by the men) and Evelyn was not a victim of some random creeper. Evelyn most likely knew these men/boys and let them in...of course not expecting them to make moves on her so she fought them. They loose their temper and go too far and hurt and eventually kill her. Just a terrible thing all around.
I wonder if this commenter has gone to police with this or not.. to have these two people who supposedly know checked out. I wonder if LE does know about this but for some reason will not look further...and yes...where is the body ? I feel this case is so close to being solved but no one will speak up out of fear or protecting someone. Just random thoughts and I am probably just echoing what has already been posted.. a reason why I have not posted in ages....
 
Interesting indeed. Would this be why her father was so determined to check on her. Could her wild streak have gotten her in some trouble with parents. So she was on lock down grounded. But allowed her to babysit.
Maybe her family wanted to protect her reputation. So they never said anything.
I watched a 3-4 part documentary on you tube. That lead me to this site a way back. I always thought her dad seemed so over protective. So I thought this was the 50'same. A young girl had to live strictly. Her dad a highly regarded citizen had a short leash on his kids.
If she had a wild streak. That got his daughter in trouble.that could mean a number of things.
I also think if I remembered correctly this family refused dna.
 
So I am watching the videos again. "What ever gappened ti Evelyn Hartley" in the comments the son of the detective commented there is mention if an unclaimed body ìn the 80'. The detective always thought it was her.I forgot if this is all ready mentioned in the thread.
 
So I am watching the videos again. "What ever gappened ti Evelyn Hartley" in the comments the son of the detective commented there is mention if an unclaimed body ìn the 80'. The detective always thought it was her.I forgot if this is all ready mentioned in the thread.

I don't believe so, did it provide any more info?
 
I'm sorry about my text. Just that there never was a test. I will find her doe number.
 
My impressions are that she absolutely knew the Perp(s) and fought violently against her capture, ultimately being subdued. The purported sighting of a young woman in the back of a car with a man appearing drunk, with another man up font driving sounds about right.

I believe she was an object of obsession, was captured, raped, and murdered. I don't believe she lived past the evening of her abduction.
The descriptions of her family sound perfectly normal for the cultural norms of that era.
I think the greatest opportunity to solve this case is to find like abductions with a similar profile. This type of violent crime is rarely contained to one victim, I would surmise.
 
I'm familiar with the Hartley case basics, but am much moreso knowledgable with Ed Gein, having delved much deeper in researching it than the published sources have gone. Thought I might address a few of the Gein factoids mentioned here, if I may. Not going to 'make or break' anything with regards to Hartley, but some of it has been used to form theories RE Gein's possible involvement.

...Gein later confessed that he often (50+ times) would go to grave yards because he wanted to dig up graves. "On about 30 of those visits, he said he had come out of the daze while in the cemetery, left the grave in good order, and returned home empty handed. Also, there were three cemeteries less than a mile from the home she was taken.
Gein claimed to have made about 40 trips to 3 of the cemeteries near his farm; on about 30 occasions he stopped himself. It's been determined that he opened 9 graves (may be as many as 11), 3 of which were verified by exhumation. I have the grave victims list (of 9 individuals) and the ages range from 46 to 85 yrs old. However, it is true that pieces of 2 teenaged girls were found among his trophies and failed to match up with any burials of the period/area. It was not actively pursued at the time with regard to investigating these specific remains, why; I don't know (other than possibly budgetary reasons).

3) Gein was small enough to get into the basement window with no problem, but also small enough that Evelyn could have gotten away from him in the struggle upstairs, allowing her to run out of the home before he caught her. (She was 3 inches taller than him).
Gein was in fact 5'7" per the record on his fingerprint chart taken in '77; same height as Hartley. He certainly seemed to have a strength beyond his slight stature; he removed the body of the tavern owner he shot in '54 by carrying her out, when she weighed about 200 and he was about 135. Gein did manual labor his whole life, after all.

As far as Evelyn not matching his typical MO its worth note that it seems that he had a psychotic break mid May, 1944. Until this time he hadnt harmed anyone.. His brother started to go against their mothers view and mocking Ed for how close he was to his mother. On May 16th his brother was killed, people commonly agree that Ed killed him.. The murdering of his brother could have set him into motion as a killer.
Well, his brother certainly died in '44. Officially the death was ruled accidental and Ed wasn't considered at the time to be suspect. It has only been in hindsight that Ed has been theorized to be responsible, but without any evidence. The 'motive' mentioned in a popular published (fictionalized) account of the Gein story (paraphrased in the above quote) makes a leap of faith, IMO. Personally I am undecided on him killing his brother. I lean toward doubting it. Ed did not speak ill of his brother in the interviews/lie detector sessions, and I don't see enough motivation for it, esp with his mother still being alive in '44. Doesn't fit, IMO. However, Gein certainly did stray outside his M.O. in other instances.

I do not consider it likely he was involved with Hartley, but the physical evidence found on his property is definitely troublesome from a case study perspective.
 
The Judge said that Gein was within 2 blocks of the home visiting an 'aunt', yet his parents (George and Augusta Gein) had no living siblings, they also had no ties to the La Crosse area any longer. Although Gein was born there, when he was 8 years old his mother felt that it was 'evil' there and moved them to Plainfield on a 275 acre farm to remove her sons (and husband) from the temptation of evil.
Augusta was 1 of 12, and many of them did live in LaCrosse while the Geins were there. In fact at least one brother partnered with George in running a grocery/butcher store for a few years. I would have to check my notes, but I believe Augusta's siblings were all out of LaCrosse by the 1940s, never mind 1953. I have never heard Ed make any mention of keeping in contact with George's step-siblings.

His father died in 1940, his brother was murdered in 1944 (more than likely by him) and then his mother died late 1945. According to later investigation around 18 months after his mothers death was when he started to dig up graves - he would often go to where his mother was buried and would 'talk' with her, and later said that he started to get visions, which is what made him want to make himself into a woman so he started to read the paper and see what women that matched the type of woman he wanted had been freshly buried.
Brother's death was ruled accidental. First grave opened by Gein was in 1950, or 5 years after his mother's death. RE his visions; Ed stated they occurred in the first year or 2 after she died. His visions were never stated to be related to 'becoming a woman' but more along the lines of hallucinations.

The only reason I bring any of this up is because even before the death of his mother he was very reclusive, which was part of his mothers doing - she was a very domineering woman who only very rarely allowed him to leave the farm, and wouldnt allow him to have any sort of friends. After his mothers death he suffered serious signs of agoraphobia and would very rarely leave the farm, and when he did only for short times.
Putting the alibi he had aside (he was doing handy man things for neighbors the day of) and the fact that he had no way to get to La Crosse and back (this car was later shown for 25 cents and billed as the car that "HAULED THE DEAD FROM THEIR GRAVES" but this wasnt true as it hadnt been driven in years) - going to 'visit' relatives that don't exist.
Ed had a fairly normal social interaction, both while in school and after that. He was a weird dude to various degrees, but he didn't hide from folks. He also 'left the farm', tho he didn't travel far as a matter of habit, he definitely traversed the tri-county area. Ed owned 2 vehicles; his '49 Ford and an older Chevy truck. It's verified he did haul corpses in the Ford, also at least his last shooting victim. Keep in mind; in '57, his Ford was only an 8-yr old car. I believe the truck was functional as it was sold at auction to an individual who used it for hauling. He worked with the county road crew and traveling threshing outfits, so he got around. LaCrosse, however, was 110 miles from Plainfield. The farthest he claimed to have been from Plainfield was Milwaukee, about 150 miles away.
 
Ah, so it is possible Evelyn knew her abductors. So she meets them when partying, is flattered by the attention, and tells them about her babysitting job.

What about Evelyn telling the guys they could come visit her? She's flattered by the attention from older boys, so she figures it would be fun if they popped over for a visit. The boys, however, think they are going to get some action, they take it too far, and she's fatally injured. Who knows? Maybe they came over drunk, whipped out a pack of condoms, and expected some fun. Evelyn says "Ummm, no, leave." And things get rough from there.
 

Members online

Online statistics

Members online
120
Guests online
2,710
Total visitors
2,830

Forum statistics

Threads
601,262
Messages
18,121,362
Members
230,995
Latest member
MiaCarmela
Back
Top