AMBER ALERT WI - Jayme Closs, 13, Barron, missing after parents found shot, 15 Oct 2018 *endangered* #14

[Get off my Lawn!]

Just a thought: Perp has a daughter which is why he didn't/couldn't kill Jayme (the witness to his crime)

 

[HarvestMoon]

Geeze, these cases get under your skin. While trying to go to sleep last night I kept trying to analyze this case with what we know. However- my mind just kept going back to James at the front door and what happened there. I just couldn't get past that. Who and why, would someone kick in a front door to gain entry? Why was James at the door? Knock, noise, what?

 

[MsBetsy]

Is there a msm link? I have not seen this verified myself. Thanks.

It must be speculation because I have not read that anywhere.

 

[SkipperKey3]

Unfortunately, visualizing what is public about this case, leads me to agree with those suggesting the perp was very angry. Opportunistic, perhaps, but angry seems to fit more. Gutsy or nutsy to stick around 20 minutes after shooting someone. In those 20 minutes, thinking the worst, would be tormenting the mother. The worst torment after seeing her husband dead or dying would be to be forced to watch her daughter being harmed and/or being tortured herself. LE hasn't described if there were signs of a prolonged assault on the mother, or blood / dna of the perp, or that of JC. What was yelled? Who was screaming? Why these people? What gets someone this angry in the woods of Wisconsin?

That is how it looks. But what facts we know don't actually tell us that he was shot 20 minutes earlier. We actually don't know exactly what happened in those 20+ minutes, or what the order of events were. All we know is the results. We know JC was by the door, but we don't know that he was shot immediately. Perhaps he was trying to flee to get help? We just don't know. We don't even know for absolute certainty who was shot first. We are going by what little we know of the crime scene, which is very little. It seems highly likely that he was shot immediately, but it is far from an established fact. Given all the yelling and commotion on the 911 call, it may be that he was still alive and fighting for his family's safely at that point. We just don't know.

And that is part of why cases like this is so frustrating. It was the same thing with the MT case - we just didn't know if she went running, if she returned, where she ran, etc. Here, too, there are many variable that are unknown to us.

 

[MsBetsy]

Geeze, these cases get under your skin. While trying to go to sleep last night I kept trying to analyze this case with what we know. However- my mind just kept going back to James at the front door and what happened there. I just couldn't get past that. Who and why, would someone kick in a front door to gain entry? Why was James at the door? Knock, noise, what?

My initial thought was that he was trying to prevent the killer from coming in, whether he opened the door first or not. Then the killer kicked it in. Jmo

 

[retiredrickyinCO]

A car could be in the next town over with a 9 minute lead.

It seems as if most people are assuming the perp took Hwy 8 most likely to the west, away from Barron which is a distinct possibility. But you have to realize there are roads at least every mile (some are even a half mile or quarter mile apart) that will take you north/south as opposed to east/west. Some are paved and some dirt. Two things about those roads. They would be extremely desolate that time of night and most of the houses sit quite a ways off the road (think farms) so security cameras would provide a very poor image at best. If it were me, having been born and raised in the area, I would get on Hwy 8, probably heading west just long enough to take a road going north/south. When the 911 call was made there is a very good chance LE could have been coming from the West as well as the East but most likely most came from the east. It used to be, a long time ago, in the late 70s, Hwy 8 had all kinds of speed/radar traps. Ask me how I know. But again, I would get off Hwy 8 and onto the back roads just as soon as I could. MOO

 

[CuriousMaine]

Barron County also had a very similar call last October. The second paragraph below is almost verbatim what Fitzgerald has said in Jayme's case.

UPDATE: Deputies rule Chetek deaths a murder-suicide
Investigators say 55 year-old John Hengst shot and killed his ex-wife, Brenda Turner and her teenage daughter, Natalie Turner before turning the gun on himself. Deputies discovered the bodies after losing contact with 17 year-old Natalie Turner, who called 911 asking for help.

Investigators are hoping the 911 call might shed light into what happened inside the home that evening. "You hear some yelling in the background and that's what we're working on determining exactly what was actually said word for word and we actually may send it in for some enhancements because you can't hear some of the words," said Sheriff Fitzgerald.

Ahuh. This explains to my satisfaction, why they may have initially thought suicide. We humans are biologically designed to extrapolate from memory/history.

 

[pepper 34]

Is this the same neighbor doing all of the interviews..vmmking? Tia.

I havent seen or read any articles where they have been interviewed beyond when they first said they heard 2 shots.

I find it incredulous the police would divulge any of the 911 evidence to mere outsiders.

If this person is apprehended and brought to trial imo the enchanced 911 will be one of the most important pieces of evidence submitted other than the bodies themselves and autopsies.

Why would they be divulging this to someone who's not even connected to this case?

Now if the family members had been told this I would believe it to be much more credible.

Aren't the neighbors being paid for many of these interviews?

Jmo tho

I think most of us decided yesterday that these neighbors are not credible witnesses. I really doubt LE shared any information at all with them. I'm willing to bet they learned about someone making a 911 call from the home and calling out "help" on the news, the same way everyone learned about it. I think as far as the neighbors are concerned, the Mrs (especially) likes to toot her own horn a bit.
<modsnip - rumor>

 

[njbchgal]

You beat me to it.

Maybe we need a thread for it for folks who are interested in digging deeper?

There were no weapons at the scene per LE - if her folks did that she would have run for help, what child would hide for 12 days?

 

[HarvestMoon]

Oy-‍ This bloody page keeps reloading "an error has occurred and is reloading this page" eliminating everything I wrote while trying to post. This has been going on for two days. Frustrated-

 

[MassGuy]

My initial thought was that he was trying to prevent the killer from coming in, whether he opened the door first or not. Then the killer kicked it in. Jmo

Exactly. That is the most likely scenario.

 

[DancingMuse]

You beat me to it.

Maybe we need a thread for it for folks who are interested in digging deeper?

I agree with you and other websleuthers here that it is eerily similar.

I am also trying to come up with a sequence of events that would allow for the VERY SLIM CHANCE that Jayme is still alive at this point, (like so many have posted).

Everything written below is MOO, and completely FAILS the Occam’s Razor test.

It could, additionally, have already been refuted by the analysis of ballistics, footprints through blood, DNA analysis of blood, and multiple cell phone records (known only to LE, of course, at this time).


#1. A person enters the residence in the evening, sometime, after 7:00 pm.

This person, after a period of time, (and after loudly, escalating conflict) kills DC.

It is possible that Denise was repeatedly assaulted before the fatal gunshot.

During this event, a cellphone inside the home was used, perhaps making several calls.

During this event, gunfire was NOT loud enough to be heard by the neighbors.​

#2. A DIFFERENT person enters the residence. This person kills James with a DIFFERENT GUN.

This event is perhaps shorter in duration than Event #1.

During this event, a cellphone inside the home was used to call 911.

During this event, gunfire WAS loud enough to be heard by the neighbors.

During this event, Jamie runs to, or, is transported to safety.

During this event, all firearms were removed from the home. (Why?)

#3. Law Enforcement arrives.

How and what is going on?

As other Websleuther’s have posted, it could be that an Understandable, Unilateral, Executive Decision has been made by Someone, that:

Jayme will remain safely in protective hiding, and suffer no more Trauma than she has already experienced, until the killers in Event #1 and Event #2 are ……… unequivocally accounted for, identified, explained, and/or apprehended.​

This person also believes that a) questioning by LE, b) mental health professionals’ involvement, c) medical intervention/examination, …etc. would do more harm than good with Jayme, at this point. ​

One can only hope.

Because that’s all we have.

Hope.

 

[VeryVeritas]

Snipped- Something on the 911 call leads LE to believe JLC is still alive...

1) This means they would have an idea of who the perp is. Or...
2) It could be wishful thinking or just flat out wrong like the officer who initially thought it was suicide. These things just don't happen there... until it happens.
3) At least it appears she was alive because she wasn't left behind. She could have been taken hostage as insurance.

 

[bizzle2]

Unless I am wrong, the officers were dispatched to a “possible suicide attempt.”

I agree that upon arrival, the father’s body may have had head wounds indicative of a self inflicted gunshot.

I don’t think there was a gun near his body, as they fairly quickly came to the conclusion that this was not a murder/suicide.

Something told them that.

My impression is that one of the officers on scene (Unit 329) was the one who initially said "possible suicide attempt". Unit #329 arrived on scene at 1:00:29 and the first mention of suicide on the dispatch log is at 1:03 when it says "329 advised of possible suicide attempt"

The rest I agree with

 

[MassGuy]

There were no weapons at the scene per LE - if her folks did that she would have run for help, what child would hide for 12 days?

I think the point that the poster was getting at, was that both cases may be straight up murders.

I’ve read more on that other case, and it seems like your standard murder/suicide.

No connection whatsoever.

 

[MsBetsy]

That is how it looks. But what facts we know don't actually tell us that he was shot 20 minutes earlier. We actually don't know exactly what happened in those 20+ minutes, or what the order of events were. All we know is the results. We know JC was by the door, but we don't know that he was shot immediately. Perhaps he was trying to flee to get help? We just don't know. We don't even know for absolute certainty who was shot first. We are going by what little we know of the crime scene, which is very little. It seems highly likely that he was shot immediately, but it is far from an established fact. Given all the yelling and commotion on the 911 call, it may be that he was still alive and fighting for his family's safely at that point. We just don't know.

And that is part of why cases like this is so frustrating. It was the same thing with the MT case - we just didn't know if she went running, if she returned, where she ran, etc. Here, too, there are many variable that are unknown to us.

It does sound that there was quite a struggle from the way the 911 call was described. And at least two people yelling. One idea I had was that the killer was in the process of trying to take Jayme, and that maybe her dad was alive long enough to try to prevent him from taking her and that's how he ended up dead by the door. While the mom somehow managed to call 911. But then there are those gunshots at 12:31. Maybe they were just the only ones heard and the others were inside the house when the door was closed. It's so hard to figure out. Jmo

 

[bizzle2]

That is how it looks. But what facts we know don't actually tell us that he was shot 20 minutes earlier. We actually don't know exactly what happened in those 20+ minutes, or what the order of events were. All we know is the results. We know JC was by the door, but we don't know that he was shot immediately. Perhaps he was trying to flee to get help? We just don't know. We don't even know for absolute certainty who was shot first. We are going by what little we know of the crime scene, which is very little. It seems highly likely that he was shot immediately, but it is far from an established fact. Given all the yelling and commotion on the 911 call, it may be that he was still alive and fighting for his family's safely at that point. We just don't know.

And that is part of why cases like this is so frustrating. It was the same thing with the MT case - we just didn't know if she went running, if she returned, where she ran, etc. Here, too, there are many variable that are unknown to us.

IMO we don't even know for sure that the 20 min gap exists.

 

[Deleted member 102539]

Barron County also had a very similar call last October. The second paragraph below is almost verbatim what Fitzgerald has said in Jayme's case.

UPDATE: Deputies rule Chetek deaths a murder-suicide
Investigators say 55 year-old John Hengst shot and killed his ex-wife, Brenda Turner and her teenage daughter, Natalie Turner before turning the gun on himself. Deputies discovered the bodies after losing contact with 17 year-old Natalie Turner, who called 911 asking for help.

Investigators are hoping the 911 call might shed light into what happened inside the home that evening. "You hear some yelling in the background and that's what we're working on determining exactly what was actually said word for word and we actually may send it in for some enhancements because you can't hear some of the words," said Sheriff Fitzgerald.

OMG!

 

[Cardinal47]

I always think of James coming home late but actually he could have been home with his family from 3pm on. I also thought of him being followed home late at night but if he was home all afternoon/evening who would pull up and do this?
I'm betting phone communication is going to be big and I'm pretty sure it takes a long time to get those records if cell phones are missing.

 

[SuziQ]

Right, they reported no guns were found at the scene. I don't think their initial assumption of suicide is significant in this case, since the coroner definitively declared it a homicide. Jmo

Ita. What is the point of this rabbit hole?