AMBER ALERT WI - Jayme Closs, 13, Barron, missing after parents found shot, 15 Oct 2018 *endangered* #15

[Pennysmom1]

With this being a rural area, has the possibility of the intruder arriving on an ATV been discussed? A four wheeler or such? They disappeared so quickly, you would think the police would have passed them on the road on the way there. If they used a four wheeler they would have had more options as to escape undetected.

I brought that up many many threads ago and no one liked that idea because quads and three wheelers are too loud

 

[MassGuy]

I find that, overall, I often share a lot of your thoughts and feelings, MassGuy. The one thing I don't agree with you here concerns the time gap. To my mind, it's not completely unreasonable for the suspect to have spent 30 minutes in a home where 2 victims were murdered and another subdued, especially given the fact that we don't know the size or the layout of the house, we don't know if anyone barricaded themselves in another room of the house, or is someone was hiding. Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't it take 5 minutes or more for responders to report having found the body of DC ? THAT seems like a long time to me too. But that's what happened.

I’m not saying that the time gap didn’t occur. I am skeptical of it, but I am leaning towards it being true.

I simply cannot make sense of it based on the mode of entry, specifically, the apparent blitz style home invasion.

The pivot towards a slow, 20 plus minute prolonged event, is baffling and unusual.

 

[cj1132]

It's called the Castle Doctrine: Wisconsin Castle Doctrine Explained | Grieve Law LLC Milwaukee & Brookfield, Wisconsin
In Wisconsin, the law on self-defense generally states you may employ lethal force to defend yourself or another if you or they are in reasonable fear of imminent death or great bodily harm. Castle Doctrine changes the rules of retreat and when one can use force in their dwelling, workplace or motor vehicle to provide heightened protections from both criminal prosecution and civil liability if one uses defensive force.

The court or jury may no longer consider whether the actor (a homeowner in his home, business owner or operator in their business or motorist in their motor vehicle) had the opportunity to flee. You may now "stand your ground" in these locations. Now, if someone breaks in the front door of your dwelling, or is in the process of breaking in the front door you do not need to flee out the back door; instead you may choose to stand your ground and the new law shall presume you reasonably believed lethal force was necessary to prevent imminent death or great bodily harm.

I can tell you that 25+ years ago we had a situation in our home and we were told by police that if that person came into our home again, we could defend ourselves with a weapon. I am in Wisconsin.

 

[Regit]

But wouldn't there be ATV tire tracks?

Depends on where they parked it. With all the leaves on the ground this time of year, if it was parked in the forest, it might not have left much in the way of tire tracks. Particularly if it has been cold and dry. Also, I would imagine there would be a great deal of ATV tire tracks in the woods around there with hunters.

 

[pepper 34]

What is that black thing in the backyard? Trampoline?
MOO

I was wondering, too. It seems to high up off the ground to be a trampoline but this terrible map I made of the house and what appears to be the object (pointed out by
red arrow) does make it look like a round object. I think your guess is probably correct.

 

[Mountain_Kat]

It's probably worth noting that the Closs family would have been a bit awkward having such a young daughter at their age. I'm 52 with two daughters, 11 and 13 so I get a free pass to say this. It makes for a weird dynamic, and that may have a lot to do with why they're not all chummy with their neighbors.

I respect your personal experiences, but DC would have only been 33 when she gave birth to Jamie. Not an uncommon age for women to give birth .
The Age That Women Have Babies: How a Gap Divides America

 

[MsBetsy]

I think we all know this was a brutal attack. Brazen fits right in there.



Every single thing LE has done has been for a reason. They have all of those pictures but chose the ones of her looking much younger. Wonder why?

Maybe because that's how she would normally look without her hair done or makeup such as some of the other pictures. Jmo

 

[Shurlokt]

Don't let the "Loud Sound" steer you towards or away from a shotgun being used. While shotguns with bird or buck shot are rather loud, they do not typically break the sound barrier and as a result they do not have the loud "crack" of a projectile breaking the sound barrier. Many centerfire rifles and some handgun cartridge combinations can break the sound barrier. The orientation between the soundwave's direction of travel and the person hearing the gun get fired will have a huge impact on the level of sound heard.

 

[Regit]

I brought that up many many threads ago and no one liked that idea because quads and three wheelers are too loud

They are loud. But other than the neighbor that heard 2 gunshots, no one seems to have heard much of anything.

 

[Bluebythec]

“You don’t have to do this” was speculation by a poster here:

AMBER ALERT - WI - Jayme Closs, 13, Barron, missing after parents found shot to death, 15 Oct 2018 *endangered* #8

I posted this way back but I'll post it again here. Nothing has changed my theory so far so I'm still on board with this scenario:

I've been turning this over in my head trying to come up with a scenario that fits what little verified info we have. Someone is fixated on Jayme and has been observing long enough to know that there ware 2 cars in the family and who drives which one. He sees that the Dad's car is missing and assumes the Mom and Jayme are home alone. He brings a gun for intimidation only and has no real intention of using it. It's been said that many don't lock their doors in rural areas so he's able to walk in unimpeded and locks the door behind him. Jayme is in her room. Maybe she's drinking a cold soda. Mom is in the living room watching tv/reading with her cell phone on a table. Perp walks in and points the gun at Mom and says just cooperate and you won't get hurt. Jayme hears the commotion and comes out. He forces them in to the bathroom and secures mom to a chair. While he's doing this the Dad pulls up in the driveway and goes to the front door but it's locked. Mom and Jayme start yelling to him and he kicks in the door. Now the perp, who I think is young, starts to panic and immediately shoots the Dad. The impact of the shot spins him around so it later appears that he was *inside* the door when shot. Mom and Jayme start screaming and he turns his attention to the Mom. Jayme is able to grab her mom's cell phone and dials 911. Mom is screaming at the perp, who has the gun pointed at her "You don't have to do this." Jayme is screaming "we need help." The perps sees Jayme with the phone and knocks it out of her hand and proceeds to shoot the Mom. What was heard on the phone by 911 was "you don't have to do this" followed by "we need help" causing them to think someone was attempting suicide. The perp grabs Jayme and drags her through the woods to a car which he had parked there earlier. He forces her in the trunk and drives to a remote cabin he'd prepared beforehand.

That's the best I can come up with using known facts. I'd be interested in exploring this with all of you.

 

[Ragnarok]

Certainly would not want to take us off on the wrong direction but the use of a high calibre gun possibly a rifle has been suggested by two people that I know of, largely based on the sound of the alledged hearing of gunshots by the neighbors, Joan and Tom Smrekar.
Tom said on video: "It was a BIG gun" “It wasn’t like a hand gun or a 22 or a 410”....
The second person to suggest high calibre was KAREN SMITH, RETIRED DETECTIVE, JACKSONVILLE SHERIFF`S OFFICE interviewed by CNN's Banfield.
SMITH: "Right. I mean, what send chills down my spine was the fact that she said it was so loud. That tells me it`s a high caliber gun. I don`t know if we`re dealing with a rifle..."

So if this is correct and only LE will know this for sure. Is it only hunters who might have a gun of this size handy?

Rifles are low on the firearms murder list. Handguns predominate firearm murders. Shotguns are next down and what I believe was used IMO. Then again a 357 magnum 45 or 44 magnum are loud. Can not discount handguns, shotguns, or rifles in vehicles.

Just won't know until details made available.

 

[MsBetsy]

they locked the person out

Well, yes, but that only tells us that an intruder forced his way into the home. It does not give us an indication that he was a friend who left the house to retrieve a gun from his car.

 

[SausagePizza]

That round thing on the backyard area could be a deer/animal fence to protect a vegetable garden?

 

[Mountain_Kat]

I’m not saying that the time gap didn’t occur. I am skeptical of it, but I am leaning towards it being true.

I simply cannot make sense of it based on the mode of entry, specifically, the apparent blitz style home invasion.

The pivot towards a slow, 20 plus minute prolonged event, is baffling and unusual.

RBBM

The only way I am able to make sense of it is that I have become convinced that DC (perhaps along with Jayme) did, in fact, barricade herself in a room of the house. I realize that isn't "official " information from LE, but it makes sense in light of several questions which remain unanswered for me.

JMO

 

[mtnlites]

I cannot overstate how unusual it would be for "druggies" or "meth heads" to have a firearm. Most firearms are valuable and items of any value are only useful for trading for drugs or money for drugs.

That's been my experience as well-they sell or trade anything of value.

 

[Get off my Lawn!]

Thanks guys. I have to log off now. Good luck and let's hope there is good news about Jayme soon. Make my day.

 

[MsBetsy]

I wondered the same. I don't believe it's a storage structure as the garage is nearby. Draped tarp? Hmm...

I wonder if there is a better picture of it. Someone said many threads ago it looked like a trampoline.

 

[cody22]

I'm still trying to find additional video of the mattresses (it's as if all the news articles that had them have removed or edited their videos now to take that out). But in the mean time, I found a video I had not seen. In the video at this link at about .30 secs in the camera zooms in and we can see the windows with blinds open and some lights on. This is after the home has been released back to family. I can't make much out but I was thinking this video might be helpful for figuring out which rooms were to the right of the front door. Leaving link for anyone who wants to grab a screenshot:
Investigators Comb Closs Home for Any Remaining Evidence, Reward Increases to $50K

My feeling is that a kitchen and small dining area are to the right of the living room front door, with the sliding door leading to the side deck, in that area also.

 

[doublestop]

What is that black thing in the backyard? Trampoline?
MOO

I would think either a trampoline or a garden would be closer to the house than that. You want both of those in sight...to watch or hear your child on the trampoline, or to keep animals out of the garden or for ease of picking something for dinner.

 

[kkdj]

I keep thinking about how people in that area often don't lock their doors. Yet this door was kicked in. Did they feel they needed to lock their door this night or was it locked by the perp after entering and James kicked it when he got home later? Just speculating. jmo