AMBER ALERT WI - Jayme Closs, 13, Barron, missing after parents found shot, 15 Oct 2018 *endangered* #18

[AgeofAquaruis]

I remember a case where an adult son came into his parents house in the night and shot them with a shotgun. The mother was shot in the face but was (surprisingly to the responding officers) still alive. They said they couldn't even put an oxygen mask on her because they didn't know where her mouth was. She managed to say her son shot them but after the surgeries and recovery she had no memory and denied that he was involved.

Cruel Doubt Chris Pri

I never saw exactly what the "serious crime" was so it's hard to tell. A crime in and of itself can be ruled out but there can be other aspects involved.

Thinking it must be really bad, like child *advertiser censored*, with all the sex offenders around. So disgusting. If it was a drug bust they probably would said so.

 

[Ommmm]

Exactly. This person obviously came prepared for a confrontation.

He or they, knew that the family was in that house.

Agreed. Breaking down a door is a significant act, imo. Either they were incredibly amped and aggressive and came through that door in a single motion, or they had to take the time to kick at it a few times, which shows quite some anger / determination and not much fear of being caught, at least, in the moment. There’s other ways of gaining entry to that house.

 

[Ragnarok]

Thank you for choosing to take on a vocation that is obviously needed, yet underappreciated. My son is a junior in high school and I swear I wish he would choose to go into some sort of trade as opposed to college. I know many will think I'm a terrible parent for saying that but I don't really care. I think college is overpriced, overrated, and definitely not for everyone.

You are not a terrible parent. College is way overpriced and not for everyone. Parents and students need to be realistic about the major they want to pursue weighed against the rewards of their desired career.

I have two nieces pursuing college degrees that I am comfortable will lead them to good careers. One is going for a Criminal Forensics Science degree. Other is in a five year dual major English Teaching/Creative writing majors. Have told them I look forward to their collaboration on future crime novels.

A nephew was going for a dietitian degree but realized it wasn't going to work out for him. Now considering other careers.

The studies programs are the ones I find most troubling. Graduating with large debt and limited income possibilities.

 

[peace9274]

Cardinal45 asked earlier if anybody remembered a case similar to this one. (I couldn’t find her original post to quote it.)

There is the 2002, still unsolved, case of Michael, Mary, and Jennifer Short.

In Virginia, Michael and Mary Short were shot in the head and their 9 year old daughter Jennifer was abducted. Her body was found a month later in North Carolina.

I’ve been thinking since the beginning of the Closs Case how similar the two cases are and how similar Jennifer Short and Jayme Closs look.

I hope so badly this case doesn’t go unsolved and that Jayme is found alive.

UNSOLVED: The murders of Michael, Mary and Jennifer Short

 

[DocBrew]

Agreed. Breaking down a door is a significant act, imo. Either they were incredibly amped and aggressive and came through that door in a single motion, or they had to take the time to kick at it a few times, which shows quite some anger / determination and not much fear of being caught, at least, in the moment. There’s other ways of gaining entry to that house.

Interesting that you are using the pronoun "they" when referring to kicking in the door, and I agree that if the door was breached from the outside it is likely more than one person that did that. Unless it is a defective unit, it's generally too difficult for one person to breach a secured front door.

LE is looking for 2 vehicles they believe are of interest and suspicion, so it likely is more than one perp, IMO.

 

[ELOCsoul]

What about this case will be politicized? The Tibbetts case didn't become a political firestorm until after the arrest of the perp and his identity revealed. In this case, the public has been asked to search for vehicles. By now, I expect LE knows the names of all owners of such vehicles. JMO

IMO the answer to why the case has languished lies within the demographics of the area. Can’t really say more

 

[Ommmm]

Interesting that you are using the pronoun "they" when referring to kicking in the door, and I agree that if the door was breached from the outside it is likely more than one person that did that. Unless it is a defective unit, it's generally too difficult for one person to breach a secured front door.

LE is looking for 2 vehicles they believe are of interest and suspicion, so it likely is more than one perp, IMO.

I don’t know if it’s a “him” or a “them” so I went with “they” to be safe. It’s entirely possible.

 

[CuriousMaine]

Cardinal45 asked earlier if anybody remembered a case similar to this one. (I couldn’t find her original post to quote it.)

There is the 2002, still unsolved, case of Michael, Mary, and Jennifer Short.

In Virginia, Michael and Mary Short were shot in the head and their 9 year old daughter Jennifer was abducted. Her body was found a month later in North Carolina.

I’ve been thinking since the beginning of the Closs Case how similar the two cases are and how similar Jennifer Short and Jayme Closs look.

I hope so badly this case doesn’t go unsolved and that Jayme is found alive.

UNSOLVED: The murders of Michael, Mary and Jennifer Short

The Short case (unsolved), and serial killer Joseph Duncan's (solved) murder/kidnapping are two that have similarities to the Closs case. Maybe we could find similarities in those two and see anything stands out compared to the Closs case.

Two things I'll note:
-both in Short case and Duncan case, *appear* to be one perp;
-took victims out of state. Short found 40 miles away; Dylan Groene 140 miles away.

 

[quueenie]

Interesting that you are using the pronoun "they" when referring to kicking in the door, and I agree that if the door was breached from the outside it is likely more than one person that did that. Unless it is a defective unit, it's generally too difficult for one person to breach a secured front door.

LE is looking for 2 vehicles they believe are of interest and suspicion, so it likely is more than one perp, IMO.

A few days ago I stated my theory, part of it was that the door/ doorknob/ lock, was shot before kicking it in. That may account for the officer first seeing "multiple rounds spent". Digging around I found this news story: "Relatives of Jayme told CBS News the front door to the house was shot in."
Police trace 911 call after Wisconsin girl goes missing, parents found dead

 

[DocBrew]

A few days ago I stated my theory, part of it was that the door/ doorknob/ lock, was shot before kicking it in. That may account for the officer first seeing "multiple rounds spent". Digging around I found this news story: "Relatives of Jayme told CBS News the front door to the house was shot in."
Police trace 911 call after Wisconsin girl goes missing, parents found dead

It is as difficult if not more so to shoot a door in as kick it in, particularly if the shooter goes for the lock or handle. Again, TV makes it look easy.

I could be mistaken, but I think I recall where LE has outright denied that the door was shot in.

JMO.

 

[MassGuy]

It is as difficult if not more so to shoot a door in as kick it in, particularly if the shooter goes for the lock or handle. Again, TV makes it look easy.

I could be mistaken, but I think I recall where LE has outright denied that the door was shot in.

JMO.

It depends on the weapon, but generally it is much easier to kick a door in.

Myth busters did an episode on this, which illustrated how difficult it is to damage the locking mechanism with a firearm.

We know that home invasion type crimes are frequently initiated by the door being kicked in.

 

[quueenie]

It is as difficult if not more so to shoot a door in as kick it in, particularly if the shooter goes for the lock or handle. Again, TV makes it look easy.

I could be mistaken, but I think I recall where LE has outright denied that the door was shot in.

JMO.

Have you seen this video of a local news anchor speaking with Sheriff Fitzgerald? At the 1:33 mark it sounds like he says "killerS". I've replayed it several times, and IMHO, that's what he says.
Authorities dropping 24/7 ground operation as search for Jayme Closs continues

 

[pinkfly]

I really thought that this case would be resolved by now. If LE/family really don't know much more than us it must be so gut wrenchingly difficult for them. If the family really does not know if their own family units are safe, while still mourning D and J's deaths and then the worry about Jayme on top of that would be am almost disabling fear.

 

[MassGuy]

I really thought that this case would be resolved by now. If LE/family really don't know much more than us it must be so gut wrenchingly difficult for them. If the family really does not know if their own family units are safe, while still mourning D and J's deaths and then the worry about Jayme on top of that would be am almost disabling fear.

Definitely. No motive, no leads, and a missing child. Truly horrific.

 

[HarvestMoon]

I really thought that this case would be resolved by now. If LE/family really don't know much more than us it must be so gut wrenchingly difficult for them. If the family really does not know if their own family units are safe, while still mourning D and J's deaths and then the worry about Jayme on top of that would be am almost disabling fear.

I'm just an ordinary person on the other side of the states, and all of this makes me so mad- destroying a family like this.

 

[Gardener1850]

Have you seen this video of a local news anchor speaking with Sheriff Fitzgerald? At the 1:33 mark it sounds like he says "killerS". I've replayed it several times, and IMHO, that's what he says.
Authorities dropping 24/7 ground operation as search for Jayme Closs continues

I hear killers --plural.
Verbal slip from the sheriff?

 

[CuriousMaine]

It depends on the weapon, but generally it is much easier to kick a door in.

Myth busters did an episode on this, which illustrated how difficult it is to damage the locking mechanism with a firearm.

We know that home invasion type crimes are frequently initiated by the door being kicked in.

I can't as easily dismiss the possibility...
Research: "breach door with shotgun" on youtube. A technique apparently also utilized by US military.

Edit: *Note video examples go on and on...must be dozens of them.

 

[CuriousMaine]

A few days ago I stated my theory, part of it was that the door/ doorknob/ lock, was shot before kicking it in. That may account for the officer first seeing "multiple rounds spent". Digging around I found this news story: "Relatives of Jayme told CBS News the front door to the house was shot in."
Police trace 911 call after Wisconsin girl goes missing, parents found dead

I can't dismiss it completely, but there's not a quote directly from family. It's a reporter or editors interpretation, at best, or a complete misunderstanding at worst.

 

[whatsherface]

It is as difficult if not more so to shoot a door in as kick it in, particularly if the shooter goes for the lock or handle. Again, TV makes it look easy.

I could be mistaken, but I think I recall where LE has outright denied that the door was shot in.

JMO.

I was watching something. And it depends on where you kick it.. Most likely whoever kicked that door started in the center of it because how the frame was still there and took a few times.. kicking it in the middle close to the knob it would have popped open with the whole door in tact. . On a few other videos I watched were showing shotgun vs doors.. and the door was damaged but nothing looking like their door did. ... hope that all made sense. I was rambling. It sounded better the first time I tried replying. Page reloaded and everything was gone.

 

[whatsherface]

I can't as easily dismiss the possibility...
Research: "breach door with shotgun" on youtube. A technique apparently also utilized by US military.

. We must have been looking at shotgun vs doors at the same time. ..