AMBER ALERT WI - Jayme Closs, 13, Barron, missing after parents found shot, 15 Oct 2018 *endangered* #19

[sun16]

I imagine LE is already on top of this, but they need to look at prior spouses, significant others, etc., and especially in consideration to where those people CURRENTLY live and work. No names though (considering TOS).

 

[Nerissa]

I was going back to see in Jennifer Short family murders if in the first couple of weeks a similar press conference was held: ie, she had a dog and cat, etc. other things she cherished....wondering if they seemed to be luring her, or giving her courage against her captor....also they said she was 'missing and feared kidnapped'

There is a 2015 article saying they were 'going back' to speak to friends, teams she was part of etc. - asking if anything suspicious, unusual attention by someone etc etc
What floors me is: I'd sure think they'd have done that back then!!
And I sure hope LE is doing precisely that now!

One major difference in the case is that Short family lived in very busy area - motels, convenience store next door, etc. - and people commented how frequently they were all outside doing yard work: not difficult for a perp to observe, and see/target Jennifer....whereas Jayme's home rural and somewhat secluded....ie not easy to just sit in a car in a parking lot and watch the family's activities....

Any activity Jayme had could bring her into contact with this perp...I also wonder where she was dropped off by the school bus...any areas for someone to be parked & observe her? Which, if any, houses did she have to walk by to get home?

Sorry if this is OT - but I'm trying to understand LE, protocol and language by comparing the two cases and the LE response to them....

 

[Mountain_Kat]

IMO, Meth-heads who are out of their minds and in such a frenzied state that they will bust into a house and shoot/kill 2 people will not then suddenly have the presence of mind to stop and say to themselves, "Hey, this one looks like a young teenager, I can't shoot her."

IMO, if this had been a random, drug-fueled home invasion, police would have found 3 dead bodies at the crime scene, not 2.

Not necessarily the case.
Effects of methamphetamine on sexual performance and compulsive sex behavior in male rats. - PubMed - NCBI

 

[CuriousMaine]

This, to me, is one of the oddest things to come from LE. Not so much the concept of asking for tips from OTHERS about people who might be involved with the family, but asking for people who had direct involvement to report that ? Is everyone who spent time with the Closs family, or had an argument with them supposed to call and report that ? Really? To me, it's kind of akin to saying, " Anyone who murdered 2 people and killed their daughter, could you please give us a call ? ".

I just do not get this at all. Maybe it's just me.

I thought this move by LE was quite intriguing (in a smart way).

MOO: Some perps, perhaps this one, are very self-confident, cunning; think they can outsmart police. They may display a need to try to appear friendly and cooperative, might seek info on the direction of, or evidence in the case. They'll get further scrutiny.

Anyone known to police via other witness statements to have had an argument, but doesn't self-disclose, would get further scrutiny/questioned: "we heard ... why didn't you come forward...?"

Most people (not involved), who knew them well enough to have had an argument, wouldn't hesitate to get themselves eliminated as promptly as possible so they can concentrate resources on the real perps. But they may also have an added incentive to provide other information they may not have necessarily made an effort to otherwise. Meaning, they might not call in a tip if it seems insignificant or unimportant, but in person, when asked, "is there anything else, anything at all you can think of..." they may get the urge to tell more.

 

[Angleterre]

Respectfully snipped for focus.
I originally speculated that the Perp had taken Jayme and crossed in to the interior of Canada. Others have suggested a hunting cabin. The reality is she could be in a basement a block away from her home, and I am beginning to think this might be the strongest possibility. My reasoning is that if LE thinks they have narrowed down the Perp cars to two, but can't spot them on street cams outside of town....well either they switched cars, or are hunkered down locally.
I don't think we should rule out that the Perp is hiding in plain sight close by.

Amateur opinion and speculation

I’m leaning that way too

 

[Mountain_Kat]

https://www.ncjrs.gov/pdffiles1/digitization/201253ncjrs.pdf

When Abducted Child Was Killed <1 Hour 44%
Within 3 Hours 74%
Within 24 Hours 91%
Within 7 Days 99%
Within 30 Days 100%

(Those statistics are just devastating.)

 

[sun16]

If the perp is sitting on the couch reading all of these threads, he must be going nuts right now. It’s all over the place!

 

[charminglane]

I wonder if Jayme walked her dog on the road?
I know the neighbor states that she did not see Jayme often.
I know they have a large property to run around in.
Just wondering. It's how I've met a ton of people. And they know where I live.

 

[CuriousMaine]

"The most common use of the media was in an attempt to locate witnesses."

Link, page 32: https://www.ncjrs.gov/pdffiles1/digitization/201253ncjrs.pdf

This is a good resource. Thanks for sharing!

 

[Bluebythec]

If this was planned and Jayme is treated well, I would think her hair now has been cut, to being very short: perhaps dyed.
The Perpetrator could possibly have Jayme dressed as a young boy, in case she is seen by others, as they travel great distances to the destination/hideout.
There would be another vehicle involved immediately after the murders.
MOO.

I mentioned in an earlier thread that I was surprised there haven't been composite sketches done of what Jayme might look like with a different hair color/cut or any change that may have been made to her appearance.

 

[Wrenny]

This totality makes the Challenger more like to be an "image" purchase where the buyer specifically seeks out the car specifically and likes the car and the impression it conveys.

Good thoughts. But what I found in googling is they're stolen right and left, and they're popular for criminals because they're FAST! Google Dodge Challenger in the news and you can find a story about one doing 198 mph on the freeway in North Carolina.

 

[Wrenny]

I wonder whether it was the Challenger or the owner, of the car that parks at Jenny-O that they cleared. I wonder if the car could have been "borrowed" while the guy was at work, or sleeping or something, and returned with him/her none the wiser. They have video of the car though, I suppose it didn't match for some reason.

 

[Mountain_Kat]

Experian Examines the Muscle Car Resurgence

Muscle car owners also skewed toward males, with men being 21% more likely to buy one than females. Muscle cars were also more likely to be purchased by consumers under 40 than the general population. Experian also found that buyers who made less than $100,000 per year were 7% more likely to buy muscle cars than their higher paid peers.

 

[Wrenny]

A number of days ago there was a post about a snowman visible inside the front door. I asked if there was a link to a picture of same and posted a link of a forensics individual in a white outfit that I thought might have been mistaken for a snowman.

The snowman seen inside the front door is about 18" tall.

 

[WiseOwl]

After 3 weeks now it doesn't look good for Jayme's hopes of being found alive but there's always hope. I can't imagine what it was like for her to see/hear her parents being killed and then being taken away into the night - what must the poor girl have gone through? My thoughts and prayers are always with Jayme, her family and friends.

I still believe there were 2 perps involved, especially after the Sheriff let slip the word 'killers' in the Fox TV interview on Thursday. Can't decide if the parents were the target or Jayme herself. Maybe it was even a random attack? LE have kept their cards close to their chests in this case, they obviously have their reasons but its very frustrating the lack of evidence being made public. I sincerely hope their tactics work in this case and they bring Jayme home.

 

[GordianKnot]

From MOD Notes page 1 of this thread - we are allowing members to state their opinion that Jayme could be involved in her own disappearance.

I still am standing by my original theory that is was either one, or both, of the parents that were targeted. But my gut tells me that it is a distinct possibility Jayme could be involved in this (directly or indirectly) albeit its a very remote possibility. I just keep pondering how the sheriff thinks she's alive, the PC in which they seemed to be talking to her and also just the lack of facts they have released after 3 weeks. It certainly weighs very weak on my list of possibilities but I want to be receptive of any and all possibilities. I do not believe she had an active role in the murder of either of her parents. I have complete confidence this terrible tragedy will be solved. MOO

RRinCO, my gut reaction is the same as yours. I, too, see this as a real possibility.
The sheriff went a lot further than saying he thought she was alive, he stated that he had a "100% expectation that she is alive." That statement is utterly baffling, given the facts of the case that have been released to the public. He is absolutely confident she is alive? Not even 98% or 99%, which is pretty darn certain, but 100%? IMO, LE definitely knows a whole lot more than they've shared with the public.

 

[KLM6]

I thought this move by LE was quite intriguing (in a smart way).

MOO: Some perps, perhaps this one, are very self-confident, cunning; think they can outsmart police. They may display a need to try to appear friendly and cooperative, might seek info on the direction of, or evidence in the case. They'll get further scrutiny.

Anyone known to police via other witness statements to have had an argument, but doesn't self-disclose, would get further scrutiny/questioned: "we heard ... why didn't you come forward...?"

Most people (not involved), who knew them well enough to have had an argument, wouldn't hesitate to get themselves eliminated as promptly as possible so they can concentrate resources on the real perps. But they may also have an added incentive to provide other information they may not have necessarily made an effort to otherwise. Meaning, they might not call in a tip if it seems insignificant or unimportant, but in person, when asked, "is there anything else, anything at all you can think of..." they may get the urge to tell more.

I thought this was so odd when it came out too and I like how you explained it here. But I also had wondered if it gives LE insight into who and what types of things did they disagree with others about? It could be anything from how they raised Jayme, to the football games, to how they supervised employees, did they have strong beliefs politically, was there a debt, etc etc. anything. If LE knew what things james or denise were passionate enough about to argue about it, they could possibly take that route toward possible suspects as far as a potential heated argument was concerned. I would think the plea would also draw out those who had seen or had knowledge of either one of them in a heated disagreement - but as you said, may be less inclined to believe its important enough. For all we know the locals may be surprised to learn who did this, and realize after the fact they had info that could have helped. Hard to explain what Im thinking exactly so hopefully it makes sense.

 

[klind55]

Does anyone wonder if this was a professional hit?
I haven't wrapped my head around this theory yet but I'm going to consider it.

I wondered this also after someone pointed out a family member is a correction officer.

 

[Abba's Tears]

Do we really know what goes on with neighbors or family members? Do we really know previous connections? Nothing in this case is at seems.

bbm
And that's likely the most frustrating part of this entire thing. There just aren't enough pieces of factual information to form a solid theory. Everything is so speculative that the possibilities are all over the place. I believe like most of you that LE knows a lot more than the rest of us, as they should. I just wish it were enough to get Jayme home, and so far that hasn't been the case. May God give them strength to persevere.

 

[Wrenny]

Didn't the one neighbor (rumor) say they would not open the door when she brought their mail up? Heck nobody better be in my mailbox without my permission!

She said when the Closs mail was delivered in her box by mistake and she took it to the house, they wouldn't come to the door.
Seems reasonable to me, especially if they were sleeping. She could leave it in their mailbox, or (more legally) just write "delivered to wrong address" on it and stick it back in your box with the flag up.