AMBER ALERT WI - Jayme Closs, 13, Barron, missing after parents found shot, 15 Oct 2018 *endangered* #19

[Herb.Wis]

True. And we really have no idea whether or not it applies to Jayme, as so far there is no indication that she is alive. We can only hope this is not the case. I think the point is that it's not looking good right now. It's been almost three weeks and it appears as if they have no leads at all. Jmo

I would phrase it differently and say that so far at least there's no indication that Jayme isn't alive. Until we know otherwise I'm going to assume she is alive. In a couple weeks the Wisconsin gun deer season is going to start and many thousands of hunters will be in the woods. I'll be holding my breath until deer season is over, hoping that nothing bad is discovered during those 9 days.

 

[elektroangel]

If you have any concerns you can just click "report" on your previous post and ask a mod. HTH!

Thank you!! I did just that!

 

[ReckoningDay]

You are right of course Reckoning. There is very little chance that what we do here will actually “solve” any of the crimes we are discussing. But the value of the discussion is beyond measure I think. Keeping a crime in the public eye, whether it is unsolved or solved, is a tribute to the victims. It acknowledges their lives, their pain and suffering, and in some cases the terrible way they died. I think we owe them that - to bear witness for them, because if not us, then who will? I had this very discussion today with some friends who were angry that the details of sweet baby Hazana’s terrible abuse and death had been made public in the news. I did not want to know those gruesome circumstances either, but feel like it is her story, and must be told so that Hazana’s life and death would not be in vain and forgotten.

Here is a link to a recent interview wth Tricia that talks about why we are here. It might help you sort out some of your mixed emotions about being here. I think we all struggle with it at times, and that’s human. I think it’s worth examining our own purpose often. I thank you for even broaching the subject. It helps me to question myself too.
Citizen Detectives Uncover Crime Clues On Websleuths Online Forum

Now, having said all that, I am stunned by your personal experiences with a crime you and your family helped bring to a resolution. I understand that you cannot share much about it, but I want to thank you for working as hard as you had to for LE to take your infirmation seriously and as a result, justice was served and a victim laid to rest. You have more experience than just about any of us here in putting together the pieces of clues. God bless you for what you did. Give yourself huge credit for speaking up when you could have said nothing. You are awesome!

Thank you so much for your kind words. And thank you for reminding me that it is also about keeping the victim's name and story alive. The victims in each of these cases should always be remembered. The perpetrators...on the other hand... well, we would probably sleep better if we could forget them!

 

[Alexsea]

Similar thoughts have run through my mind... what are we even doing here? What exactly is “sleuthing” anyway? Please don’t tell me that we’re solving crimes because we’re not. I guess in a way this is a support group for people trying to come to terms with whatever happened here. The closer these crimes come to me and my family the greater my need to understand.

That’s why I’m following mostly from the shadows now and posting very little. At this point I believe I know what happened and why. Others may or may not agree and I could be completely wrong, but for now I believe these discussions have helped me make sense of it all. And that to me is what “sluething” is and why I continue to follow.

Thanks for this. I was feeling that futility. I guess the discussion is productive after all.

 

[ReckoningDay]

Similar thoughts have run through my mind... what are we even doing here? What exactly is “sleuthing” anyway? Please don’t tell me that we’re solving crimes because we’re not. I guess in a way this is a support group for people trying to come to terms with whatever happened here. The closer these crimes come to me and my family the greater my need to understand.

That’s why I’m following mostly from the shadows now and posting very little. At this point I believe I know what happened and why. Others may or may not agree and I could be completely wrong, but for now I believe these discussions have helped me make sense of it all. And that to me is what “sluething” is and why I continue to follow.

Yes, that helps explain it, actually! In some ways, it can be sort of a weird personal therapy to help process grief and sorrow, both of our own personal experiences, and the sadness of evil, in general!

 

[DancingMuse]

I worry sometimes that we want info released, just because it is interesting to us.
(snipped respectfully for brevity)
I'm sorry...I'm feeling cynical tonight, I guess.

I agree with you ReckoningDay; It is understandable one would feel cynical. Your family’s persistence was important.

You touched on how I think the Locals in Barron might feel about not being listened to, or taken seriously at this point if they DID come forward.

I’m sure a lot of Locals would also be really scared too. They would elect to not come forward. I know I would be scared, after seeing the amount of horror visited on the Closs Family.

When we look at the ages of the deceased:

a) James: 56 years old

b) Denise: 46 years old

That’s a lot of ADULT years accumulated between them. They have come into contact with so many strangers, community members, family and friends during the course of their entire lives.

And we all know: There’s been so many cases where someone held a grudge FOR 20 OR MORE YEARS.

As examples, In both of these cases below, the perceived offense could be summed up as (MOO) :

a) “I blame you for cheating me out of the patent money, but then you prospered” 'Hand marks of blood on the wall': Douglas Garland murder trial hears graphic evidence from boy's mother | CBC News


b) “I blame you for my mother’s death on the operating table”: https://www.chron.com/news/houston-...e-more-information-in-slaying-of-13123522.php

And then the killer held onto that grudge for many many years, only finally exacting revenge long after the offense or PERCEIVED OFFENSE OCCURRED.

JMHO: It may be that the Locals in Barron might know something. But, they are so scared of coming forward, and saying ………‘oh yeah, 10 years ago, John-so-and-so was really upset with MR/MRS Closs, ........ blamed them for…….……”.

If LE were able to elicit the Locals to talk, it would be interesting to hear the answers to these questions:

In the last 2 years, 5 years, 15 years, ….. Did either of the Closs’ ever……

a. have to testify against someone in court ?

b. give investment advice to people ?

c. sell something of value to someone but then the item was deemed defective? Non-authentic?

d. attend estate sales…........where someone believed The Closs' acquired something worth a lot of money that “should have stayed within our family.”

e. get the blame for causing the end to someone’s marriage.

The list of possibilities is endless, and could go back 20 years or more, as we have seen in other cases. But LE may never really hear the truth, because people in Barron, understandably, would be too scared to talk, knowing they are implicating someone who is seemingly capable of double homicide and abduction of a teen.

 

[ReckoningDay]

I agree with you ReckoningDay; It is understandable one would feel cynical. Your family’s persistence was important.

You touched on how I think the Locals in Barron might feel about not being listened to, or taken seriously at this point if they DID come forward.

I’m sure a lot of Locals would also be really scared too. They would elect to not come forward. I know I would be scared, after seeing the amount of horror visited on the Closs Family.

When we look at the ages of the deceased:

a) James: 56 years old

b) Denise: 46 years old

That’s a lot of ADULT years accumulated between them. They have come into contact with so many strangers, community members, family and friends during the course of their entire lives.

And we all know: There’s been so many cases where someone held a grudge FOR 20 OR MORE YEARS.

As examples, In both of these cases below, the perceived offense could be summed up as (MOO) :

a) “I blame you for cheating me out of the patent money, but then you prospered” 'Hand marks of blood on the wall': Douglas Garland murder trial hears graphic evidence from boy's mother | CBC News


b) “I blame you for my mother’s death on the operating table”: https://www.chron.com/news/houston-...e-more-information-in-slaying-of-13123522.php

And then the killer held onto that grudge for many many years, only finally exacting revenge long after the offense or PERCEIVED OFFENSE OCCURRED.

JMHO: It may be that the Locals in Barron might know something. But, they are so scared of coming forward, and saying ………‘oh yeah, 10 years ago, John-so-and-so was really upset with MR/MRS Closs, ........ blamed them for…….……”.

If LE were able to elicit the Locals to talk, it would be interesting to hear the answers to these questions:

In the last 2 years, 5 years, 15 years, ….. Did either of the Closs’ ever……

a. have to testify against someone in court ?

b. give investment advice to people ?

c. sell something of value to someone but then the item was deemed defective? Non-authentic?

d. attend estate sales…........where someone believed The Closs' acquired something worth a lot of money that “should have stayed within our family.”

e. get the blame for causing the end to someone’s marriage.

The list of possibilities is endless, and could go back 20 years or more, as we have seen in other cases. But LE may never really hear the truth, because people in Barron, understandably, would be too scared to talk, knowing they are implicating someone who is seemingly capable of double homicide and abduction of a teen.

Wow! Those are some very good questions!

 

[Caylee Advocate]

I loved reading the bakery owners remembrance of Denise, how thoughtful she was of others. Breaks my heart! Hug your loved ones every chance you get because things can happen where we might not ever have that chance again.

Wisconsin town on edge with search for missing teen, parents found shot to death

Daggone these cases normally don't get me misty-eyed but the ones involving kids rips my heart in two. Praying that Jayme is safe "somewhere" and that justice comes for loved ones.

 

[ReckoningDay]

Just to clarify, I am not cynical about LE. I meant ...about humanity...crime, (and my fascination with these cases) ...with evil,in general. With a very deep interest in what makes the human mind tick, also comes a dark undercurrent that can be depressing.
I do understand that LE can't follow every hunch every person may have. While the truth will possibly lie within some of those hunches, how on earth are they to process it all? How can they know if they are dealing with a person who actually HAS information, or just desperately wants to be a part of something?
I don't envy the responsibility that is on their shoulders!

 

[Caylee Advocate]

We also know attorneys sometimes read here. During at least one case the defense was reading during the trial (Jodi Arias). moo

Yes HE did and this Juanette *lol* and others busted him, and IIRC it was also done in Casey Anthony case. A lot of them probably do.

 

[HarvestMoon]

Yes HE did and this Juanette *lol* and others busted him, and IIRC it was also done in Casey Anthony case. A lot of them probably do.

The Juanette's, I haven't heard that in a long time!

 

[Nerissa]

Well, LE has been asking for the public's information all along, tips, to even call in with any disputes, info on cars, asking 2000 people to search.....

I do understand IF there is evidence Jayme is captive, willing or not...that coming forth with that might be tricky...they may feel she'd be jeopardized...
BUT
then again...
putting that type of knowledge out there could actually help locate her, if it were the case..
If I didn't mistake Falcon500, they said, if anything LE might say, would be she's alive, in tandem with belief she is in hiding (willing or not)...and in that case it would go 'national' - and therefore she'd come out of hiding....

Fact is: maybe there is no evidence that she is captive....
That tells me this case is cold...until there is some tip...(or if electronics haven't been reviewed: we don't even know that - then maybe still some hope)....

Point being: LE has leaned heavily on the public....not sure if they should stop now....

 

[Caylee Advocate]

The Juanette's, I haven't heard that in a long time!

That was one trial that I will never forget, I was obsessed with it and still to this day go over to the thread to say a quick hello to the friends who helped me keep my sanity through it all.

Thank goodness I own my own bridal boutique now so I don't have all that time to get angry as much.


ETA: Sorry for going off topic!

 

[Backstroke10]

Yeah, what good is "protecting the investigation" if it ultimately means prosecuting no one?

JMO.

I love this! Unfortunately, it seems all too common now; cases going unsolved for years.

 

[DocBrew]

I .

If LE were able to elicit the Locals to talk, it would be interesting to hear the answers to these questions:

In the last 2 years, 5 years, 15 years, ….. Did either of the Closs’ ever……

a. have to testify against someone in court ?

b. give investment advice to people ?

c. sell something of value to someone but then the item was deemed defective? Non-authentic?

d. attend estate sales…........where someone believed The Closs' acquired something worth a lot of money that “should have stayed within our family.”

e. get the blame for causing the end to someone’s marriage.

Interesting questions to be sure, but in my view none of them could also explain Jayme's abduction. That's why I've had such a difficult time trying to come up with scenarios where the adult Closs's were the primary targets, because every possible question I've asked myself all comes back to "then why leave with Jayme?". It makes no sense. Likewise, we can't realistically appeal to a killer's sensibilities or sense of morality here either. "He/she/they didn't kill Jayme because he/she/they didn't have the heart to kill a kid!" is wishful thinking for someone(s) who literally just slaughtered two human beings only seconds before.

So why did he/she/they kill them and take her? That's the million dollar question.

JMO.

 

[Bugurl747]

Respectfully snipped for focus:

The odds are not high that we here on this forum will solve the crime that the police and local neighbors cannot. I used to be convinced I was watching and reading so I COULD help solve a case. Realistically, unless I'm one of the volunteers out searching, or have personal knowledge of a local case, I'm not really helping.
So realistically, I'm thinking if it is that hard for a local to get taken seriously, that my theorizing on a forum is just whistling in the wind.
I'm sorry...I'm feeling cynical tonight, I guess.

This morning I opened my web browser to the news slide show. There was a photo of this beautiful girl, the article headline something like... "Missing Girl From 1979..." curious, I clicked on the article.

It was about a Jane Doe cold case in NY whose identity was SOLVED by a WEBSLEUTHER!
The odds may not be high, but it can happen
I couldn't find the exact article I read, but here is an article that may rejuvenate your spirit:

Web sleuthing leads to ID of girl found dead in N.Y.

BBM
"From his computer, Koppelman, a member of a volunteer Internet group at Websleuths.com, started a chain of events that led to Monday's announcement: A girl found fatally shot in a Livingston County, N.Y., cornfield in 1979 had finally been identified."

 

[VeryVeritas]

One of the many things I have learned from researching meth abuse (prompted by the Holly Bobo case) is how it changes normal brain functions. Mouse over the brain and you can see which areas are effected and how.
What does Meth do to the brain? | Ask the Meth Project

What shard of any proof exists that this case has anything to do with tweakerz?

 

[VeryVeritas]

Also, I'm not sure of procedures but I doubt just any one could come into an airport with a minor and put them on a plane.

Try private jets, people with diplomatic immunity... they do it every day.

 

[Randazzo]

That's why I've had such a difficult time trying to come up with scenarios where the Closs's were the primary targets, because every possible question I've asked myself all comes back to "then why leave with Jayme?". It makes no sense.JMO.

There might have been two sickos involved. One with a grudge against the family, and another who wanted Jayme. Two individuals fits in with the quick getaway and the two vehicles of interest.

 

[BlinkOfAnI]

What shard of any proof exists that this case has anything to do with tweakerz?

Honestly and respectfully, what shard of proof is there of any theory, opinion, or thought in this case?
ETA At this point what shard of evidence is there that drugs are not involved? Disproving something is the reverse of proving and in cases like this can be an effective strategy.