AMBER ALERT WI - Jayme Closs, 13, Barron, missing after parents found shot, 15 Oct 2018 *endangered* #19

[cluciano63]

We don't really know that he was successful in what he came to do, do we ? If he came to abduct Jayme, then yes, obviously he was successful. But we don't have the first clue as to this suspect's intent, imo. Maybe he came looking for drugs and there weren't any. Maybe he came looking to rape Denise and James got in the way of that. Maybe he came for cash and there wasn't any. Who knows ?

Only it appears, at least, that James was unable to prevent anything...

 

[Seattle1]

MOO of course, but I feel 100% certain the murders were the intended crime. Motive for the murders I believe most likely revolves around one of the recent drug busts and suspicion of who provided info for those raids.

Good. After seeing that the panty thief also worked at JenniO, I believe there's probably a lot of seasonal and/or employee turnover and with a larger workforce, somebody always knows somebody using/selling.

 

[BlinkOfAnI]

.

Gave credit to WI Attorney General as source, and that Jayme still has not been located - dead or alive. I imagine cartel/organized crime more powerful than local producers but I could be wrong.

Thanks for the answer.

 

[cluciano63]

Door-to-Door Salesmen Charged in Death of New Mexico Couple

This hideous crime happened over 10 years near my home. A couple killed by magazine salemen looking to rob them.

 

[Mountain_Kat]

True. My point was that he successfully perpetrated a crime, and escaped.

It doesn’t mean that he successfully perpetrated the crime that he intended to commit.

Gotcha. Thanks for the clarification. 4 minutes between the time of the 911 call and the arrival of LE does seem like dumb luck to me, though. JMO

 

[MassGuy]

I have been here a long time and when cases go “cold” as far as info...the same bizarre theories seem to surface, including cartels, hits, drug money owed, etc...none of which I remember ever being true, as those types of cases seem to be solved quickly...LE knows when people are killed over drug money, debts, etc as they easily enough come across proof. If they don’t know the exact culprit, they know, more or less.

Crimes when the motive is unknown, as this may be, are much harder to solve. I can’t rule out a crime similar to what happened to Holly, just because that happened at such an unlikely time and way, too. Her brother is lucky to be alive. It could have been semi-random in that the perp(s) knew the somewhat isolated house included a teen girl, if that was their goal. The boldness/thoughtlessness of shooting and kicking doors does summon up junkies high on meth, as well as other scenarios that include plain old rage.

Completely random seems unlikely unless the house was also ransacked. We do not know, but the first responder seems to have mentioned nothing that made it sound that way. Jmo

I agree. The theories that tend to be thrown around, are ones that don’t occur with any regularity.

 

[jcoast]

Let's go back to the camera footage of the 2 cars. How likely is it that anyone living on that highway would have a camera focused on the highway? Aren't the houses set back a fair distance? The police are interested in a relatively short section of highway. Maybe they didn't really make a clean getaway. Maybe the responding officers actually passed these car as they headed to the crime scene? If that's the case were the perps headed east...back towards town? My apologies if this has already been addressed...

 

[Mountain_Kat]

I agree. The theories that tend to be thrown around, are ones that don’t occur with any regularity.

True, but then how often do we read of cases where a family's door was kicked open in the middle of the night, two people were murdered, and their 13 year old daughter taken ? That, in and of itself, makes this the type of crime that doesn't happen with any regularity.

 

[Scrapper18]

Let's go back to the camera footage of the 2 cars. How likely is it that anyone living on that highway would have a camera focused on the highway? Aren't the houses set back a fair distance? The police are interested in a relatively short section of highway. Maybe they didn't really make a clean getaway. Maybe the responding officers actually passed these car as they headed to the crime scene? If that's the case were the perps headed east...back towards town? My apologies if this has already been addressed...

I have no clue. You bring up a good point and question though. I’d like to know as well.

 

[Matteo]

I read about this case in the NYT article yesterday. Strange and pitiful event.

Some facts stick to my mind. Two shots were heard at 00.28 by neighbours. Two people killed by shots, but I think I read that rounds were fired. Can that be confirmed and clarified?
A phonecall came in at 911 AM 00.53.26. The police arrived at AM 01.00.29 after 3 minutes dicision and checking the identity of the caller and a 4 minutes drive and began investigating the scene. The NYT writes that DC's cellphone was used to make a call. Has this been confirmed by the investigators?
The door was smashed in and the father was killed there. Probably when the shots were heard by the neighbours. Forensics should be able to tell the time of death. Was it the mother, the father or the daughter who used DC's cellphone?
Why would the killer(s) stay in the house from 0028 to 00.53 - if they were - and is anything missing from the house, or have they been searching the house for whatever? Or was the caller to 911 DC herself, but no longer able to vocally answer the call, perhaps when the killers just left the scene. The situation and place of the cellphone in the house could tell much of the answers.
There was no mentioning of shots heard on the 911 tape. Was the phone shut down at any moment and how?

There can something be learned from what has not been detected by the police (as far as we know). There probably was no active cellphone on the killer(s). It has not been detected at least - as far as we know. That means that they probably were there on intention and it was not a sudden emotion that led to the shooting.
There have no compromising details or circumstances emerged about the victims, so no direct motive has been constructed for having them killed.

• In my country there have recently been several drug related killings - executions - of the wrong persons, because of sloppy work by the executioners. This may have happened here too. There may have been a moment of realisation that 'he' or 'they' made a mistake, and Jayme may have come out of bed, where she probably was - can that be confirmed? She became a witness, bad for her, and was taken away by the killer(s). I don't consider that logical, but I don't know if you think logical when you kill two people by mistake and suddenly their child appears.
• They seem average middle class people, so a planned kidnap is not probable, and why shoot the parents then?
• A plain robbery is also not probable, but neither excludable. As it seems they were immediately shot on entrance by the killer(s). No handing over of valuables at gunpoint. Has been confermed how many guns were used and how many shots? If there is an active criminal group around using this amount of violence, they will practice that again.
• The aim could have been the child itself for reasons of money or satisfaction. I consider this possible but not likely. When you plan such a crime, you take care - i presume - that no one comes in your way. Killing the parents AND taking a child gets an enourmous attention in the press and by investigators and that is not what you want as a criminal, while 'only' the disappearance of a child of that age will generate far less attention.

.

 

[Mountain_Kat]

Let's go back to the camera footage of the 2 cars. How likely is it that anyone living on that highway would have a camera focused on the highway? Aren't the houses set back a fair distance? The police are interested in a relatively short section of highway. Maybe they didn't really make a clean getaway. Maybe the responding officers actually passed these car as they headed to the crime scene? If that's the case were the perps headed east...back towards town? My apologies if this has already been addressed...

Hmmm...didn't even consider that possibility. If I imagine the kind of 911 this was (nothing actually being audible), and if I imagine officers responding to that type of call, I could definitely see how responding officers might have passed vehicles without even knowing they should be looking for a vehicle.

 

[katydid23]

Let's go back to the camera footage of the 2 cars. How likely is it that anyone living on that highway would have a camera focused on the highway? Aren't the houses set back a fair distance? The police are interested in a relatively short section of highway. Maybe they didn't really make a clean getaway. Maybe the responding officers actually passed these car as they headed to the crime scene? If that's the case were the perps headed east...back towards town? My apologies if this has already been addressed...

It might be footage from the closest gas station and/or large business, which often have cameras which cover their parking lots and the street.

 

[PommyMommy]

Thank you for finding that-- I had not listened to the NG show yet (NG tends to get some things wrong in the cases she covers IMO but she also often has interviews no one else has). I think the schedule change might not be super relevant other than it tells us Jayme was planning on continuing her dance classes and nothing had happened to make her want to stop dancing. In regards to a schedule change the dance instructor mentions Wed nights-- wasn't there another source that said Jayme took religious classes at her church on Wed nights? Perhaps that was a schedule conflict?

Thank you! I had been trying to find where the sheriff said that. I tend to agree that seems to rule out a robbery occurred. JMO.

That's possible as well. Also, the kids might be divided into classes based on their ages. Perhaps Jayme had outgrown the younger kids classes with simple dance steps and had to choose a class with more teens or more advanced routines. Since she had just turn 13 recently it is plausible to me that she had "graduated" from one dance class and was trying to choose another that would fit her schedule.

"On a normal Wednesday, her mother, Denise, would have chatted with the folks working the front desk, maybe shared a small joke or two, then driven her daughter to religion classes."
Wisconsin town on edge with search for missing teen, parents found shot to death

 

[jcoast]

Hmmm...didn't even consider that possibility. If I imagine the kind of 911 this was (nothing actually being audible), and if I imagine officers responding to that type of call, I could definitely see how responding officers might have passed vehicles without even knowing they should be looking for a vehicle.

Has anybody scene actual footage or photos of the 2 cars in question? Are we dealing with descriptions LE is providing of the cars they passed? Why not show the public the footage/photos?

 

[lonetraveler]

Let's go back to the camera footage of the 2 cars. How likely is it that anyone living on that highway would have a camera focused on the highway? Aren't the houses set back a fair distance? The police are interested in a relatively short section of highway. Maybe they didn't really make a clean getaway. Maybe the responding officers actually passed these car as they headed to the crime scene? If that's the case were the perps headed east...back towards town? My apologies if this has already been addressed...

LOL, I have been contemplating that the cars could have been seen on the responding officers dash cams.

 

[Cardinal47]

Good. After seeing that the panty thief also worked at JenniO, I believe there's probably a lot of seasonal and/or employee turnover and with a larger workforce, somebody always knows somebody using/selling.

Isn't that the truth. Everybody knows everybody else's business in the workplace. Hopefully LE has a snitch taking up some space at Jenny O just gathering and telling what the water cooler chat is about...and who it's about.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

I admittedly know nothing about guns. I would describe them as either a hand gun or a shotgun, which is probably over generalizing. Could someone educate me on what kind of guns “high caliber” includes?

Some seem to think the weapon being shot at the door was a shotgun which I respect those opinions but disagree .

I havent seen anyone in LE say what type and caliber was used. I don't think this had anything to do with hunting or being a hunter.

It didn't take hunting skill to do any of this. Look at how many murders are done yearly by those who never hunted at all. Way more than hunters. Jmoo

Only about 150 peolple per year use shotguns or rifles as their weapon of choice when using a firearm. Most use handguns and not long guns.

However personally I dont think a shotgun was used. The second shot was muffled. If a shotgun was used it's impossible imo to muffle the sound.

It makes more sense to me they came to the door with a high powered semi automatic handgun which would be easy to conceal. Like a glock 40 or something even of a higher caliber or even a .357 or.44 magnum.

That would be much easier to conceal by dropping the weapon down by his side when James came to the door totally unaware he was armed.

The second shot if done with a high caliber handgun would muffle thesound if the end of the gun barrel made direct body or head contact when shooting James.

Jmo though

 

[MassGuy]

Has anybody scene actual footage or photos of the 2 cars in question? Are we dealing with descriptions LE is providing of the cars they passed? Why not show the public the footage/photos?

No. LE has only released stock images of the vehicles they are looking for.

Apparently they don’t believe that releasing those videos will be helpful to the investigation.

We all would like to see them, but that doesn’t matter when they are trying to solve the crime.

 

[katydid23]

LOL, I have been contemplating that the cars could have been seen on the responding officers dash cams.

I remember hearing, and it was discussed here much earlier, that the responding officers said they didn't pass any cars as they arrived.

If that is true, maybe the took video images from the alternate road to the home, and are looking at cars that were headed away from the home, on a different route then the cops took.

 

[whatsherface]

Numbers (caliber) refer to the barrel (diameter) size, which corresponds to the bullet (projectile) diameter. Some are metric (9mm is common), some are inches. For instance, a .22 caliber is almost a quarter inch around in size and is one of the smallest calibers commonly sold. A .45 is almost a half inch, one of the largest in common use.

I think you meant "high-power", not "high caliber", that tends to refer to the amount of powder (charge) in the case, bullet shape and typically refers to rifles. The AR is one of the smallest diameter rifle rounds in .223, but considered a "high power" rifle.

great explanation.. glad I looked at the other posts before I chimed in!

I’m thinking a shotgun was used and the reason why they haven’t mentioned the weapon used is because of how bad the crime scene was and they don’t want to say anything yet. Because there’s no denying what the shotgun would have done very fast and close range. Have they even mentioned that the casings or shells were still there? That would say premeditation also if there’s no prints on them because it would give you the thought of using gloves to load.