AMBER ALERT WI - Jayme Closs, 13, Barron, missing after parents found shot, 15 Oct 2018 *endangered* #19

[VeryVeritas]

Anybody that knew anything at all would never enter and leave a scene like this!

Guns and kicking in the door make noise something a professional would never do! Silencers and quiet.

They would never take a 13 year old kid no way!

If this is what did happen it's a couple of meth heads crazy high on drugs with not a lick of sense but lucky as hell!

If they were soooo sloppy, then plenty of evidence exists and the FBI is on it.

 

[SharonNeedles]

My thoughts remain that the most logical assumption is that this was not random, that the Closs's knew the perp and he came for Jayme. I tend towards thinking there was only one perp. I also think it's possible Denise and he had argued over his relationship with Jayme and recently. jmo

With no indication that Jayme had been stalked or had any type of relationship online or otherwise, what makes you go there?

 

[daisy6441]

From everything I have read there is no mention of any connection with drugs or evidence that there were drugs in the home. It keeps spinning off that they must have been killed because they were some how connected to meth. Is it just because there are drugs in the area?

My thoughts remain that the most logical assumption is that this was not random, that the Closs's knew the perp and he came for Jayme. I tend towards thinking there was only one perp. I also think it's possible Denise and he had argued over his relationship with Jayme and recently. jmo

I was also curious if they didn't want to call the police either because the knowledge of the person was gained too close to the murder or because they were close enough to the killer that they didn't want to contact police without trying to solve it themselves.

 

[VeryVeritas]

My thoughts remain that the most logical assumption is that this was not random, that the Closs's knew the perp and he came for Jayme. I tend towards thinking there was only one perp. I also think it's possible Denise and he had argued over his relationship with Jayme and recently. jmo

If it were someone THAT close, I would expect the FBI would know exactly who that is. I like your theory, but would expect the person to be more peripheral.

 

[Pretty Go Pale]

I question whether there would have been a bona fide leader at all, also doubt that a “hit” was ordered in so many words. More a question of speculation - who outside of this circle could have possibly known? I mean, they want to think the leak didn’t come from within the circle. It must be somebody that’s close to someone in the circle. James and Denise had many local contacts, it’s nearly inevitable that either one could be in regular contact with somebody that’s involved whether they knew of it or not.

I don’t think it’s a stretch. Somebody wanted them dead and there just aren’t a lot of reasons that could be. It’s also not a stretch to say that some real despicable people are involved in the meth operations. If they’re twisted enough to kill I don’t see why they wouldn’t be twisted enough to take a 13 year old girl.

That's just a real good analysis.

 

[VeryVeritas]

From everything I have read there is no mention of any connection with drugs or evidence that there were drugs in the home. It keeps spinning off that they must have been killed because they were some how connected to meth. Is it just because there are drugs in the area?



I was also curious if they didn't want to call the police either because the knowledge of the person was gained too close to the murder or because they were close enough to the killer that they didn't want to contact police without trying to solve it themselves.

Or too close, they might also become dead?

 

[SharonNeedles]

For what it's worth, I think it's entirely possible that this crime could have been committed by someone hopped up on meth. I'm just not following your train of thought with respect to either of the Closses being CI's. Maybe I need another cup of coffee or something.

Oh for sure the crime was committed by person(s) in a state of mind that people like us can’t wrap out heads around. Hopped up something seems probable, sexually deviant enough to take Jayme seems probable too.

 

[mtnlites]

With no indication that Jayme had been stalked or had any type of relationship online or otherwise, what makes you go there?

Since it doesn't appear that there is a digital trail to follow, then I can agree that there probably wasn't an online relationship present. However, if Jayme was being stalked then there may NOT be any evidence of that right now. Just because we haven't seen any indication of that yet doesn't mean it couldn't have happened. Someone could have been fixated on her and the family didn't even know. So I can't throw it out as a possibility.

 

[daisy6441]

If it were someone THAT close, I would expect the FBI would know exactly who that is. I like your theory, but would expect the person to be more peripheral.

Perhaps the perpetrator was close but the killer was connected to the perpetrator and not the Closs family?

**EDIT**

Let me clarify that. If Jayme had a problem with someone (school, bully, weirdo) and the parents were suddenly aware of it could someone close to the person who was bothering her take action to protect them? Like a parent not wanting their child to be in trouble so they silence the people who could make a police report?

 

[Mountain_Kat]

My thoughts remain that the most logical assumption is that this was not random, that the Closs's knew the perp and he came for Jayme. I tend towards thinking there was only one perp. I also think it's possible Denise and he had argued over his relationship with Jayme and recently. jmo

May I ask you what leads you to believe that there was someone with whom Jayme had a relationship ? Or that Jayme and Denise might have had an argument over this person ? I ask because this is a theory that others have posted, and I personally can't find any logical path toward that conclusion based on the evidence. I'd be interested to hear your thoughts.

 

[Le Singe]

I have been here a long time and when cases go “cold” as far as info...the same bizarre theories seem to surface, including cartels, hits, drug money owed, etc...none of which I remember ever being true, as those types of cases seem to be solved quickly...LE knows when people are killed over drug money, debts, etc as they easily enough come across proof. If they don’t know the exact culprit, they know, more or less.

*snipped by me for focus.

Agree 100% been here since derrick todd lee so 2002 ish and what you are saying ALWAYS happen. The only thing yo0u left out is some theory involving the victims or missing being in the witness protection program. It's usually about the time i dip out till I read an update in the news.

 

[Pretty Go Pale]

No 13 year old girl has even an innocent crush and tells absolutely NO ONE about. Again, JMO.

It would seem unlikely, but an absolute declaration that such has never happened is foolish, imo.

 

[kc1023]

I thought I was the only person who found this really odd.
There is something about it that rubs me the wrong way.
Unless, she knew her holiday work hours wouldn't permit her to attend any family Christmas activities.
That could very well be the case.
I know when I was a nurse, I often traded vacation days with women who had young children.
Mine were old enough to understand that Christmas would be "delayed" a week or a few days.
We still always had our family Christmas morning activities together, but we couldn't always make the BIG family gathering.
Moo

Catching up this morning and using your post randomly as there is a bit of discussion of it being odd that Denise brought gifts. I don't see it that way. I often bring a little something for everyone when I go to someone's home, especially a treat for the kids. I don't think they meant she bought everyone a $50 gift, probably a small trinket or favorite candy or whatever. JMO

 

[VeryVeritas]

I tend to agree with you on everything there except the last line.

Surely it would be really risky to take Jayme on a whim? Yet the perp seems to have gone in shooting.

The house is set back from the road, so I don't think it's entirely ideal for a totally random incident, unless someone followed them home and saw the car turn into the driveway, drove on and returned later with the knowledge that when they came back in the dark they'd have to watch out for that turn off?

I think it's possible that the perp could have gone there with the intention to abuse J while 'he' was there in the house. I also think it's possible that Denise was attacked during the time between the shots and the 911 call. But it seems more likely that the perp went there with the intention of killing the parents and taking J with them? Perhaps had a place ready that they intended to hold J, whether that might be something they'd prepared for or just somewhere that they had access to like a relative's hunting cabin? Especially if the perp was aware of the 911 call, driving off with a live person seems so risky. More so than turning up at a relatively remote location prepared to shoot. After all no one did call 911 because they'd heard shots, no one has reported through msm that they heard the door kicked in.

I can't see the point in a perp driving off with a dead body, especially not a meth-head or other druggie. If they wanted to cover up their presence in the house there are other ways to go about that, and then when they drive off they're 'clean'...at least if they get pulled over they don't have a live or dead body in the trunk.

This does seem planned / premeditated.

 

[Gardener1850]

The fact remains the James and Denise are dead because the assailant wanted them dead. When I ask myself why somebody could possibly want them dead the plausible scenarios are limited.

What you are saying seems very logical. I tend to agree that this seems targeted against the family in some way. That said, we don't know that the perp specifically wanted James and Denise dead. We don't even know if the perp is someone who knew them beforehand. It is still possible this was a random attack or the perp simply wanted to murder someone/abduct a girl and chose them for reasons only known to the perp. In the abduction of a 4 year old in SC after a home invasion and brutal attack on her mother, the perp Thomas Evans said he randomly targeted the mother and her children because they "seemed perfect" to him. There are serial killers who choose their victims on a whim as well-- someone who looked at them wrong or someone who laughed at them and they took offense--like in the case of Todd Kohlhepp who killed 4 people he didn't even know in a motorcycle shop because they laughed at him.
They may never have solved the Superbike murders had TK not been caught holding KB captive and confessed to those murders as well. So while I think your scenario seems just as plausible as others and I do tend to think the family was a target in this crime, unfortunately it is not a settled fact. We don't know that yet. I wish we did know that as a fact. Because if LE knew they were purposely targeted and why, they might be able to solve this case much faster. JMO.

 

[Mountain_Kat]

If they were soooo sloppy, then plenty of evidence exists and the FBI is on it.

Agreed. But you can have all the evidence in the world and it still not be able to lead you to a suspect. Especially if this were a random crime.

 

[Intrigued25]

Hi JJ, I'm not aware of a drug bust but the jail roster showed a meth related arrest of a person and the address given under the court case was .04 mi away form the Closs home. Since LE hasn't stated there is a connection I can't give the persons name.

Is there houses within 0.04 mi of the Closs home?

 

[daisy6441]

It would seem unlikely, but an absolute declaration that such has never happened is foolish, imo.

Especially if the other party is considerably older and presses for silence.

 

[Mountain_Kat]

If it were someone THAT close, I would expect the FBI would know exactly who that is. I like your theory, but would expect the person to be more peripheral.

Random or peripheral...yep.

 

[Mountain_Kat]

Especially if the other party is considerably older and presses for silence.

Point taken. I still find it unlikely that Jayme wouldn't have confided in a friend, though , or that absolutely no one would have suspected anything.

JMO