AMBER ALERT WI - Jayme Closs, 13, Barron, missing after parents found shot, 15 Oct 2018 *endangered* #19

[AgeofAquaruis]

I agree... such an odd guy to turn up in the middle of all this. It seems he is just odd, though, based on the information available in MSM.

He's definitely someone to be very weary of. Whether he's cleared or not. In this case.
The Airforce Colonol that flew the Queen of England around when she would visit Canada , was a panti stealing Serial Killer who was wearing womens lingerie when caught.

Colonel's double life exposed
So Kyle might not be guilty in this case, but definitely someone who should be kept locked up.
IMO

 

[Pretty Go Pale]

Actually there were several charges. If I recall correctly they were felony level.
ETA along with a PV from previous case.

Doesn't take much to reach the felony level w/ meth charges -- same w/ crack/regular cocaine, LSD, heroin, etc. Now, not that hard to plead down from those charges, but if you're caught w/ such -- regardless of the amount -- you're almost certainly gonna catch a felony charge right off the bat.

 

[bizzle2]

I noticed right away many people were saying “shotgun”. I was thinking how do we know? I think some people might just think it’s a general term or interchangeably used.

I think the thought of it being a shotgun came from the neighbors saying it was a really loud shot that sounded like it came from a big gun. LE has never stated what kind of gun (or guns) was used, and they haven't even confirmed the neighbors account. So we just don't know.

 

[kkdj]

I've heard on here that it is common for people in the area to leave their doors unlocked. Logic tells me the Closs family had their door locked that fateful night and the perp knew it, as they kicked it in. Why did they lock their door that night? (maybe they were ones who always did) Was there an ongoing problem and /or threat? Did it have to do with Jayme or the parents?

 

[SharonNeedles]

If that is what happened in this case, the "scared" person who pointed the finger has almost certainly been eliminated. And if that scenario is accurate, the best chance of solving this case falls on the assigned perp who almost certainly abducted Jayme for his own deviant purposes. That perp, in this scenario, would be a loose end for having taken Jayme. And to be frank, that scenario now seems like a stretch, just because of that.

I don’t expect the assailants were local, likely from a short distance away but not specifically local. My guess is that Jayme was removed from the immediate area and disposed of shortly after. So many places in rural areas to dispose of a body... 50 miles away might as well be 1,000.

 

[Mom24]

I am forgetting which thread, but it seemed an old debt probably not anything abnormal especially given the timeframe of the US recession and people having been out of work. It was definitely mulled over, but being a judgement it’s typically by a bank or credit card. Nothing out of the ordinary MOO.

The case about DC's debt was really very simple. The records state she was working with a debt consolidation company. When you do that the consolidation company negotiates a deal with your creditors for some kind of partial forgiveness of the outstanding debt in return for a complete payment from the consolidation company, and then in turn the debtor pays the consolidation company back.
It some situations, one of the creditors will not agree with the negotiated amount and will take the person holding the debt to court to negotiate a larger amount from the consolidation company. That's what happened here. One of DC's creditors wasn't happy with the negotiated amount, took her to court and both parties settled for another amount and she was able to consolidate her debt.

 

[Pretty Go Pale]

I think the thought of it being a shotgun came from the neighbors saying it was a really loud shot that sounded like it came from a big gun. LE has never stated what kind of gun (or guns) was used, and they haven't even confirmed the neighbors account. So we just don't know.

Actually, the neighbor husband, per the various interviews through his wife, thought the sound came from a "big gun." That wouldn't have been a shotgun, imo, but instead a hunting rifle -- like a .30-06 or a .30-30. Even so, because of the timing of the 911 call, I don't think the shots the neighbors heard at 12:31 am were related to the violence at the Closs house. Either that, or the neighbors' timing was off by 25 or so minutes.

 

[SharonNeedles]

The problem is that no matter how you look at this case, something about it seems wildly unlikely, yet it happened.

I guess I don’t see it as wildly unlikely at all now. Depends on perspective I guess.

 

[1987]

.

 

[Mountain_Kat]

I keep coming back to wondering why they thought they were dealing with a suicide at first. Especially when there wasn't an obvious weapon.

I feel you, Carbuff. I went around and around with that for a long time, and never did land on a reasonable explanation. The very first thing LE saw when they arrived at the house was the front door kicked in and an adult male lying on the ground. No gun visible anywhere. How the heck does that scream suicide to seasoned law officers ?

 

[StarryStarryNight]

Random thoughts following the current discussion: Are meth heads usually this good at covering their tracks?

Probably not most of the time I would think but they certainly were in the Holly Bobo case. It was aided by some really shoddy police work caused partially by LE thinking this group was too drugged up and stupid to pull it off, and partially by just dumb luck.

I don't see many similarities. She was not an adolescent. The perp in Hollies case was seen leading her into the woods. He did not murder anyone before he abducted her. There was no car description. She was sexually assaulted and then murdered. We don't have any indication in this case if that is what happened. In my opinion we have even less to go on. Jmo

I completely get what you are saying. My point I think was that in the Holly Bobo situation the kidnaping went off probably better than planned and they were able to get Holly to go with them into the woods. But if someone would have tried to stop them(as Jayme's parent may have in her case) would it have gotten violent also? No way to know. Also Holly was missing for a good bit of time before her body was found and it was known she had been murdered for certain. It was even longer before they knew she had been sexually assaulted by these guys. In Jayme's case right now we really only know she is missing. No real difference than with Holly this early in the investigation. There was no real car description in the Holly Bobo case other than vague talk about a truck cruising their road. Definately got more info with this case on that. I hope it will help solve it a lot quicker.
It's jmo they seem similar. I'm probably way off!

 

[Pretty Go Pale]

I don’t expect the assailants were local, likely from a short distance away but not specifically local. My guess is that Jayme was removed from the immediate area and disposed of shortly after. So many places in rural areas to dispose of a body... 50 miles away might as well be 1,000.

Ok, let's say that is what happened. Even so, I can't imagine that the weight behind the order to hit the Closs' is gonna be anything but pissed at the revelation that the perp(s) took the daughter along after the murders. That's what I meant by the perp(s) being a loose end -- someone who deviated from the simple plan of eliminating what they saw as informants. If the scenario is accurate, the odds of solving the case may hinge on LE getting ahold of the perp(s) before his bosses do.

 

[wallaby]

Hello, just posting to say I have just tried to read as much of the past threads as I can (took a while) and will be trying to follow future posts in hopes of more news. So sad about her parents and that Jayme has not been found yet . Hoping for a miracle and that she’s found alive soon!

 

[ReckoningDay]

RBBM. Lots of families get together for lunch or dinner every Sunday as a matter of tradition. Perhaps it is less common these days? I saw my grandparents and cousins at least once a week for the family dinner growing up. If one of my cousins had a birthday that week then the meal included cake and ice cream and singing happy birthday. That said, I'm confused as to why this family gathering could be significant to the crime. A Sunday family gathering for a cousin's birthday sounds pretty common, mundane almost. Can either of you enlighten me as to why you think it could be significant? TIA

(as long as your thoughts are within TOS, of course, if not just ignore me and I won't take offense at all )

We still do this, and people who weren't raised this way find it so odd! lol

 

[Cryptic]

My new working perp theory: 1) Isolated loner white guy deviant sex pervert killer with a rural farm or homestead in region, possibly with military background.

I think that this is a possibility and over the years, there have been a small number (thankfully) of horrific crimes with that involved an attacker(s) murdering a family to kidnap an individual that they were interested in.

This possibility maybe heightened by the small town ordinary lives of the victims: They had very stable lives and worked together at the same plant for twenty plus years. The mother taught religion classes at a church. The father’s favorite topic of conversation was Wisconsin football. Heck, they did not even have political signs out, let alone present themselves as being extremely partisan politically.

Their stable, unassuming lives seemed to extend outside of work and home: No apparent debtor lifestyles or gambling hobbies. No property disputes. No reputation for having confrontational personalities or for aggressive business practices. No apparent troubled boyfriends with Jayme and no apparent involvement in affairs or “swinging” lifestyles regarding the parents. Moving on to criminal motives, no apparent involvement in even recreational drug usage, let alone sales. Likewise, no apparent arrest histories and no friendship with say, outlaw bikers or small town crime clans.

Rather, everything points to the victims as being quiet, unassuming, and “salt of the earth” type people. The only thing that might support another motive besides the one you mention is the apparent contradiction between their daughter’s multiple healthy sports / dance activities, the mother’s teaching position (teachers are usually out going) with a neighbor’s observation that the family was very private and “almost reclusive”.

This could point to a desire- but not paranoia, to keep their place of residence from becoming well known. This possible desire may have stemmed from an encounter with someone. As recent contacts have probably been examined, perhaps the possible encounter occurred in the more distant past?

 

[Gardener1850]

Very niceley said and I agree however last 24 hours are always the most important and always looked at every victimology of the deceased person. That gathering happened in that time frame, just hours prior in fact, so it must be looked at. And I am very sure LE did.

One member here stated somewhere in previous threads that after this party finnished, it spilled and some went to continue at different place. That did cought my eye as I have never seen it mentioned anywhere before. Not sure who post it, in which thread and if there was a link but I will try to somehow search for that post.

You also have to consider that Mark Furhman in interview with Fox stated that he believes the evidence shows that Denise was the intended target. He must have unknown to us reason for that thought. That theory would also wipe out many brought up theories aleady here by most members pointing to Jayme as a target.

Going from all above, it does make one question and rethink all things known so far. Not saying this what happened but it could and gathering on that day should be definitelly considered.

Here is quote and link about Mark Furhman



AMBER ALERT - WI - Jayme Closs, 13, Barron, missing after parents found shot, 15 Oct 2018 *endangered* #11

BBM. I think that must have been someone's speculation and not a fact that they went to a different place after the birthday party. I have never read that before. If you can find it in a MSM source please share that as it's new info to me. We don't know what time the party happened or when Denise and Jayme arrived home. We only know it was in the afternoon on Sunday. I agree that the schedule for the day may be important and I'm sure it was looked at by LE. LE knows the times and who was there (even though the sheriff said at a presser he didn't know if everyone in the family was there, I believe there is probably a list written in police notes somewhere and everyone on it would have been questioned about James and Denise and Jayme).

Some posters have speculated that Jayme and Denise may have stopped at a store or gas station on the way home and perhaps a random perp or perps saw them and followed them home. Others have wondered if someone knew James had to work and Denise and Jayme were gone to the party and could have broken into the house earlier and waited for the family to come home. These speculations are certainly possible, although without knowing the times of the party nor when they arrived home it's hard to make any solid theories on these types of speculations. And a break in earlier in the day doesn't seem to fit with the other facts we know. JMO.

But looking at the schedule for the day is one thing, suggesting the party itself is important is another. I'm still not sure what is meant when posters say things like "what are the chances" of a family birthday party occurring the same day? I'm trying to understand why so many think it may be related or may be a rare occurrence. To me it just seems like a normal event that may have been a regular occurrence. This is a small rural community where everyone in the family lives close by--either in the same town or nearby towns. They may attend the same church they grew up in and see each other at least twice a week there. They are not living far apart where a family get together would be a once a year or less frequent event. There is no mention of someone they hadn't seen in years showing up and making a scene or anything like that. There is no mention of anyone who had disagreements with Denise and Jayme being there. I know some families are like that and every "party" is a rare event that they dread and are dragged to and petty arguments occur every time, but there is absolutely nothing to indicate something like that with this family. Maybe if there was some family dysfunction that we knew about or some big argument that occurred that day it would seem more relevant to me. But there is not anything like that reported to us anywhere. And it does us no good to idly speculate about the family dynamics of a family who just lost two of their loved ones in a brutal murder and still have a child missing. JMHO.

As for the Mark Furman discussion, I have addressed those posts by OBE previously in that thread and I'll let my previous evaluations of his theories stand.

 

[peace9274]

We still do this, and people who weren't raised this way find it so odd! lol

Unfortunately, my 3 sons, my grandchildren, my brother, my sister, my parents, aunts, uncles, cousins, nieces & nephews and I all live in different states.

I am so envious of you and your family! I don’t think your family get-togethers each week are one bit odd. I think it’s absolutely wonderful!!!

 

[Mountain_Kat]

I was reading quotes from some serial killers a few days ago. Absolutely chilling rabbit hole. I had to take a break for a bit after that. I don't recall which one, but they said they'd just pick the first person they found attractive. I think it was Dahmer.

I have an entire notebook full of notes taken from serial killing cases and interviews with known serial killers... backgrounds, case similarities, victimology, psychology, geography, you name it. The only thing I find useful in this case with respect to what I have learned about serial killers is the possibility that this was a random crime. If that is the case here, and I'm not saying it is , the only thing a serial killer case can teach us about the Closs case is that the probability of it being solved is very low simply because there is nothing to connect the suspect(s) to the victims.

JMO

 

[SharonNeedles]

Ok, let's say that is what happened. Even so, I can't imagine that the weight behind the order to hit the Closs' is gonna be anything but pissed at the revelation that the perp(s) took the daughter along after the murders. That's what I meant by the perp(s) being a loose end -- someone who deviated from the simple plan of eliminating what they saw as informants. If the scenario is accurate, the odds of solving the case may hinge on LE getting ahold of the perp(s) before his bosses do.

And in an organized drug distribution network that would indeed be true. The people upstream would be more organized, better financed and situationally aware enough to clean up loose ends.

But when you’re talking about home grown meth production... I mean, these people steal anhydrous ammonia and Sudafed then sometimes blow themselves up trying to cook it. But they likely didn’t even kill the real snitch, I doubt the Closs family was in a position to know anything. I think in this case the real snitch is the weakest link right now.

 

[Pretty Go Pale]

Let's say that someone w/ a vested interest in moving drugs had become threatened, in their opinion, by someone in the Closs family. And w/ that being the case, someone was sent to the Closs home to eliminate the problem. That scenario has been floated. I reject that notion, as were this a directed "hit," I find it hard to imagine a perp tasked w/ such a direct assignment actually leaving the home w/ a family member. That's a tough scenario to bridge, unless the perp (s) was simply a sex fiend w/ nasty plans ahead. And such a perp(s) would be a BIG problem for the brains behind the assignment; i.e. targeted for death. So, I don't see this as a hit, at all. Could be a drug dealer who felt threatened, in some way, by the Closs', but just can't see it as an assigned hit. If it was a drug dealer, it was a personal reaction -- some small-time number lashing out. And in most any scenario I see, Jayme is just collateral damage -- someone taken along for the sexual whims of whatever [w]ussy took her.