AMBER ALERT WI - Jayme Closs, 13, Barron, missing after parents found shot, 15 Oct 2018 *endangered* #20

[KitKat2xx8]

I tend to think that if Jayme was not the motive or target, she would have been left behind once they knew they weren’t being followed, and should have been found by now.

And she's not being found easily, as perp has her hid well, due his DNA evidence being on her.

 

[KitKat2xx8]

I think this will become a cold case JMO

I feel like another Jacob Wetterling...

 

[KitKat2xx8]

The only thing that gives me hope (as odd as it may seem) is that LE has maintained the same pattern of not releasing info. I almost dread waking up and seeing LE suddenly releasing info. At this point it would almost seem they were becoming desperate. As long as they are withholding info I feel they know things and are just waiting for that one break or tip. I know people feel differently and want info so I am probably the minority.

I agree, but they have to be weighing releasing more info, to possibly bring about more new tips.
They is a very tight lipped investigation, and I cannot say for sure if that's good or bad. But perhaps more released info may provoke more useful tips.

 

[chi123]

I realize you weren't asking me, but I'd like to respond to this.

IMO. The obvious -- that they took Jayme -- is a pretty darn big thing.

If I can make a sports analogy -- it would be like if Team A beats Team B in the Super Bowl, and someone says that Team B is still better than Team A. I'm sure someone who thinks that could come up with stats and anecdotes that would indicate Team B is better. But it's still really hard to argue with the fact that Team A won when they played. That's the only fact that anyone arguing Team A is better needs. It's basically the trump card.

Basically what I'm saying is that the simple fact that she was taken is a big one. It's not something that can be easily dismissed. I could get on board with that not being the motive if her body were found fairly quickly. Maybe then the idea that the perp simply ran out of time at the house would make more sense to me. The fact that she was taken, and hasn't yet been found, is a major indicator to me that she was the target.

Respectfully, that is my opinion.

Agreed. This is the best ive seen it put. The only explanation that makes sense at this point is that Jayme was indeed the target.

It would have been far easier to just kill her on scene if she wasn't.

 

[Ari_]

I have to think that the criminal elements co-mingle when it suits their needs. Sell her to human traffickers? I hate to go down that road but they'd be better prepared to hide her/ move her than a couple of meth heads.

Possible. But kids who are trafficked, don't usually come from situations like this. Typically, they are "runaways" or kids with not much of a support network in their family. Kids that seek others because they have no one in their lives. Jayme does not fit this dynamic.

This is just my opinion that she has not been trafficked based on typical on the typical HT. But, it's still possible.

 

[Ari_]

I think they're closing in on someone. Just a hunch. Honestly; it just seems too quiet. Like they're working on something, or someone.

I hope you're right because I feel like we're heading towards a cold case.

 

[Bluebythec]

i w

Possible. But kids who are trafficked, don't usually come from situations like this. Typically, they are "runaways" or kids with not much of a support network in their family. Kids that seek others because they have no one in their lives. Jayme does not fit this dynamic.

This is just my opinion that she has not been trafficked based on typical on the typical HT. But, it's still possible.

Yes, but that's when trafficking is the original crime. I agree. However, I was responding to the question if the perps took her because they didn't want to kill her, what would they do with her once they had her.

 

[Mysteries1974]

I hope you're right because I feel like we're heading towards a cold case.

I don’t want jaymes case to become cold

 

[Ari_]

i w


Yes, but that's when trafficking is the original crime. I agree. However, I was responding to the question if the perps took her because they didn't want to kill her, what would they do with her once they had her.

No, I understood. I just meant that she would be too risky for them and that isn't how traffickers usually like to get their victims.

 

[Ari_]

I don’t want jaymes case to become cold

Me neither

 

[Bluebythec]

No, I understood. I just meant that she would be too risky for them and that isn't how traffickers usually like to get their victims.

I agree it's risky but keeping her would be riskier. I also think the fact she had green eyes and red hair would make her somewhat of a prize so the traffickers might make an exception. If that's the case she's probably out of the area since that night. I'm not saying that's my theory just that with so little info to go on, I don't think *any* scenario is off the table.

 

[houseofblue]

Appraisal to determine value which most banks pay for. Proof of insurance.

It's a very good if you can handle it well and if you use it responsibly. Saves on your home tax bill and also it can be tax deductable. The interest that is!

You are speaking from the perspective of someone that is skilled at managing money - I am in this place as well. However, I think if you took a cross section of Americans you would probably not find that to be the case. I am fairly certain that consumer debt around 15K is not that unusual for an average household. Last I check average CC debt was 5K with average consumer debt being circa 16K per family. Which is also why I don't think this has anything to do with this case at all. Totally normal for lots of households. Wouldn't fly in mine, but doesn't make it weird.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

Ok I'll take a stab at the debt - loan! To me, an accountant, a woman that age with that kind of debt bothers me. Most of us use credit cards when we are younger and buying homes and raising young families.

Can you imagine the monthly interest on a $13,000 credit card bill at say 16% interest!
So I ask myself what's she buying?

Neither of them were spring chickens they were older parents when they had Jayme.
If they had house damage in 2017 why not take out a small home equity loan? If Jayme had medical bills same thing.

I'm pretty sure my husband would flinch at a $13,000 credit card bill as would I if he presented me with one!

Oops deleted..duplicate post. Sorry.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

Ok I'll take a stab at the debt - loan! To me, an accountant, a woman that age with that kind of debt bothers me. Most of us use credit cards when we are younger and buying homes and raising young families.

Can you imagine the monthly interest on a $13,000 credit card bill at say 16% interest!
So I ask myself what's she buying?

Neither of them were spring chickens they were older parents when they had Jayme.
If they had house damage in 2017 why not take out a small home equity loan? If Jayme had medical bills same thing.
Bu
I'm pretty sure my husband would flinch at a $13,000 credit card bill as would I if he presented me with one!

What was being charged? Questions we ponder.

Thanks for explaining your take.

I may still be confused though. I thought the credit card debt which she settled ....happened years ago and she would have been in her 30s? She was only 46 at the time of her murder right?

We havent had a credit card for over 15 years or more now. We did have one when we were raising our five children because families can have unexpected costly expenses.

We get several investment magazines every month and they often have articles on how to payoff high credit card debt. So it must be a prevalent problem for countless people who have them. I would think the age of those who have high credit card debt includes all ages from very young to the elderly.

It seems to be millions of people who have high balances on credit cards. So I dont even think Denise's balance amount would be considered that high by the credit card companies and may even be below average owed balances.

I cant remember now what the article said wss the exact number of credit cards the average card person has but I do remember it was very high and blew my mind at the time. They listed the average balances owed in credit card debt and that also was astronomically high.

I thought the other loan taken out was years after settling the credit card debt? Was it also in default.... if so... I havent seen anything supporting it? It does show she overcame her difficulties she had years prior with the credit card debt she settled. Imo

However I am still confused how personal financial matters with one happening many years ago and an open loan has linkage to why she and James were brutally murdered and their only child taken?

So if you believe its possibly connected somehow would you please be so kind and layout why this could be the link as to why all of this caused them to be murdered and Jayme abducted?

Thank you in advance.

Jmo

 

[mtnlites]

I agree it's risky but keeping her would be riskier. I also think the fact she had green eyes and red hair would make her somewhat of a prize so the traffickers might make an exception. If that's the case she's probably out of the area since that night. I'm not saying that's my theory just that with so little info to go on, I don't think *any* scenario is off the table.

Traffickers generally try to avoid people who would likely receive scrutiny. With Jayme's case being high profile, IMO it's unlikely that she would be "sold" into that kind of crime simply because the risk would be too great. She's recognizable. A trafficker's worst fear is drawing attention to themselves or to their victims. That's one of the reasons why they target at-risk people-people who won't be missed or won't necessarily stand out.

 

[Ragnarok]

Thanks for explaining your take.

I may still be confused though. I thought the credit card debt which she settled ....happened years ago and she would have been in her 30s? She was only 46 at the time of her murder right?

We havent had a credit card for over 15 years or more now. We did have one when we were raising our five children because families can have unexpected costly expenses.

We get several investment magazines every month and they often have articles on how to payoff high credit card debt. So it must be a prevalent problem for countless people who have them. I would think the age of those who have high credit card debt includes all ages from very young to the elderly.

It seems to be millions of people who have high balances on credit cards. So I dont even think Denise's balance amount would be considered that high by the credit card companies and may even be below average owed balances.

I cant remember now what the article said wss the exact number of credit cards the average card person has but I do remember it was very high and blew my mind at the time. They listed the average balances owed in credit card debt and that also was astronomically high.

I thought the other loan taken out was years after settling the credit card debt? Was it also in default.... if so... I havent seen anything supporting it? It does show she overcame her difficulties she had years prior with the credit card debt she settled. Imo

However I am still confused how personal financial matters with one happening many years ago and an open loan has linkage to why she and James were brutally murdered and their only child taken?

Since you think its possibly connected somehow would you please be so kind and layout why this could be why all of this caused them to be murdered and Jayme abducted?

Thank you in advance.

Jmo

Nerd Wallet states that average family credit card debt for 2017 was $15,482.

 

[mtnlites]

Thanks for explaining your take.

I may still be confused though. I thought the credit card debt which she settled ....happened years ago and she would have been in her 30s? She was only 46 at the time of her murder right?

We havent had a credit card for over 15 years or more now. We did have one when we were raising our five children because families can have unexpected costly expenses.

We get several investment magazines every month and they often have articles on how to payoff high credit card debt. So it must be a prevalent problem for countless people who have them. I would think the age of those who have high credit card debt includes all ages from very young to the elderly.

It seems to be millions of people who have high balances on credit cards. So I dont even think Denise's balance amount would be considered that high by the credit card companies and may even be below average owed balances.

I cant remember now what the article said wss the exact number of credit cards the average card person has but I do remember it was very high and blew my mind at the time. They listed the average balances owed in credit card debt and that also was astronomically high.

I thought the other loan taken out was years after settling the credit card debt? Was it also in default.... if so... I havent seen anything supporting it? It does show she overcame her difficulties she had years prior with the credit card debt she settled. Imo

However I am still confused how personal financial matters with one happening many years ago and an open loan has linkage to why she and James were brutally murdered and their only child taken?

Since you think its possibly connected somehow would you please be so kind and layout why this could be why all of this caused them to be murdered and Jayme abducted?

Thank you in advance.

Jmo

Agree. I thought that personal debt was settled some time ago. And through a financing agency. Not seeing how it would figure into this crime. As far as why someone who doesn't appear to live extravagantly would have that kind of credit card debt...it happens. Your house needs a new HVAC system, your car needs a transmission, etc. A lot of people don't have savings. It's not unusual to me.

 

[Charliegizmo49]

Not necessarily. They are often called in on abduction cases because smaller departments often don't have the resources that the FBI does. Including staff, labs, ballistics catalog and social media/internet techs.

After contact the soeacial CARD team has a rep in site within 1-2 hours. They are trained and home based throughout regions and then cities for maximum coverage.

We saw them in very short in the missing family of 4 in Kenai Alaska. Those people are super intelligent, organized and trained extremely well. Within a very few minutes after reviewing the files they had 3 scenarios and direction that search and Case would take. Other than having to send for heavier hiking boots and a couple warmer coats(which were loaned) they hit the ground running and did an exceptional job.

I might add the bodies of the 4 and the dog were missed in 5 foot high grass by a few feet. The search area is difficult for moose to transgress let alone locate anything. It was sad it took months to find them and my neighbor died during that time. She was the mother’s grandmother.

But I can’t say enough about the feds. When the search scaled back, the team stayed but left a very experienced member. until the snow was to deep to walk or ride through.

There were people on foot, 4x4s, on horse AND DONKEY back, atvs, scooters, motorcycles and throughout the heavy snowfall. Boats can use and park campers all searched.
The mother two girls and the dog were all shot by the mother’s boyfriend.

Searchers walked by them several times. They laid just 18 feet of a direct well used trail.

I became side tracked. My point is that a small contingency of highly specialized agents from different divisions were in Kenai. The City Police and many of us who have searched for lost hunters and fishermen absorbed the methods used and looking at suspects and why.

 

[Mandie K]

I think they're closing in on someone. Just a hunch. Honestly; it just seems too quiet. Like they're working on something, or someone.

I hope your hunch is right. So much time is going by.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

Agree. I thought that personal debt was settled some time ago. And through a financing agency. Not seeing how it would figure into this crime. As far as why someone who doesn't appear to live extravagantly would have that kind of credit card debt...it happens. Your house needs a new HVAC system, your car needs a transmission, etc. A lot of people don't have savings. It's not unusual to me.

It's sad but true for many families I would think.

A friend of ours mother suddenly past away a few years back. Her mom had no life insurance so she had no choice but to put the funeral and burial cost on a credit card. Once the estate settled she paid off the balance.

The amount was too large for her to get an unsecured loan through her bank. She at first did try to workout some kind of payment plan with the funeral home but they wanted all of it paid within 30 days. She told us the total amount exceeded 10K iirc.

At one time funeral homes would work with families but many times many were never paid. So most have changed their policies.

Jmo