AMBER ALERT WI - Jayme Closs, 13, Barron, missing after parents found shot, 15 Oct 2018 *endangered* #20

[BIC]

*** Long Post Alert ***
I had lunch with some LE today (not from WI, not involved or really even aware of this case). We discussed and I tried to get their opinion, specifically something I might have overlooked or incorrectly assumed. Not sure if any of this is relevant, but here are a few of the thoughts that came from the discussion.

Re the Dispatch Log and “possible suicide attempt” comment: Dispatch log should be considered to be notes of the communication at the time, not a full transcript. There’s going to be a lot of radio communication that log does not reflect. Notable that the first unit would advise that they are arriving at the scene and approaching the house. This officer would absolutely not just charge right in even if the door was wide open. It would be standard procedure to advise what can be seen as the officer approaches and evaluate whether it’s safe to approach and enter. That’s probably significant in that it’s unknown to us where the officer was when he observed the “man down” and reported “possible suicide attempt.” At that point, with no real threat assessment, this first officer would likely not enter until backup arrives to clear the house. More info would come in as more officers arrived to access the situation.

A good question that came up: I’ve assumed that since LE is confident that Jayme was present she must have been in bed sleeping (as I would expect a child her age to be at that time on a school night). That may be a bad assumption. I don’t know that she was asleep, I don’t know that she was in her room, I don’t even know that she was home prior to the assault. There’s a whole lot there that I’m assuming. LE almost certainly knows at this point, but I don’t.

I’m also assuming that the assailants arrived via a car pulling into the driveway and the assault in the house began with the first shots, probably the two shots that the neighbors reported hearing. But again, I’m not privy to the details I would need to ascertain that. I can’t rule out that perhaps the assailants were already there. That perhaps they were dropped off near the house and approached on foot. That maybe they were friends of James and they were hanging outside, maybe those shots were just rural folks shooting for any number of reasons before there was any intent to assault. I guess it’s even possible that the assailants arrived with Jayme (or James, or Denise) since I know nothing about where everybody was prior to the assault.

My takeaway: there’s so much about this case that just doesn’t seem to fit any plausible scenario. But that may well be because I’ve made a lot of assumptions - if any of those assumptions are wrong, that changes everything. With that I’m sure LE has a more complete picture than I do. They may not have named a suspect or released any significant details, but maybe my final assumption - that LE is as stumped as I am - is also incorrect.

In all honesty, I am impatient, and usually scroll past long posts, but I read this one, and I’m glad I did. Not knowing any of the details you mentioned, there is no way, NO WAY, to come to a reasonable conclusion. All scenarios are on the table, but I withdraw any I might have had, until we have some solid facts.

Thank you for your post, it enlightened me.

 

[MsBetsy]

These dogs are highly trained. They know the strength of a scent. They can detect overlapping scents. LE had one there looking for electronics. Between technology and these dogs LE has some pretty significant tools.

And they got it all. LE missed nothing. Sheriff Fitzgerald, his team, DNR,their team, Wisconsin State Police, their team, BCI, their team, FBI, CARD TEAM, and Barron City and all the other LE I might have missed, well they got it. By now and more likely weeks ago they had every bit of evidence collectible. They are now methodically putting a huge puzzle together if every scenario offered here and a thousand more.

And I’m guessing they have 1-5 scenarios probable as far as what has happened. I can’t imagine the volume of work put in to find Jayme. And I believe she will be found.

Thanks for all that! I hope it removes any thought that LE is doing harm to the investigation by not releasing certain information, like the 911 call.

 

[MsBetsy]

In all honesty, I am impatient, and usually scroll past long posts, but I read this one, and I’m glad I did. Not knowing any of the details you mentioned, there is no way, NO WAY, to come to a reasonable conclusion. All scenarios are on the table, but I withdraw any I might have had, until we have some solid facts.

Thank you for your post, it enlightened me.

That's true, just about every theory has been based loosely on what little information we do have, and largely on speculation. But it can't hurt to keep trying! Jmo

 

[kozzles]

I have a friend who became a 911 operator in MN. It was a one year training that included ride alongs with police.

Same as in Australia by the sound of it. Our certification was all US issued too

 

[pepper 34]

They did. We don’t know the results of their findings though.

It’s highly probable that the perpetrator both arrived and left in a vehicle. If this is the case, the scent would be lost after a short distance.

I was convinced of this, too, but now I'm not so sure because of this return visit by helicopter to the area north of Jayme's house. If I had a car and I wanted to avoid LE who had been called by 911, I would get in that car and be gone so fast and so far... but, LE has spent so much time not far away at all... right out back of that house and even came back to investigate by helicopter again... to see if anything had changed. Now, I'm wondering very much what LE knows that has them, it seems, fairly sure that the farmland out back... the access road, etc... are somehow very important in verifying some theory they have. That access road, iirc, gives access to the backs of all the properties / houses and out buildings on Route 8 for quite some distance going east and west...

 

[sbsuzilight]

You are right. It does. But LE has publicly claimed it was 4 min from the end of the call.
Call 12:53
duration 47 sec

Did they get the address from the cell phone records? Or from exact location of the cell phone?

 

[stephlovescheese]

I like that LE has searched with a helicoptor again. A perp might be more confident dumping evidence in an already-searched area thinking no one would look there again.
JMO.
I, too, think the LE has far more evidence/info than we suspect, and they’re working to fit all the pieces together as someone above suggested.
So frustrating not knowing! And trying very hard to stay hopeful!

 

[Abba's Tears]

Exactly correct, JRW.

A poster also discovered that the mystery of specifically contacting the Sheriff Dept. in Ontonagon, MI at 12:15:13 per the 911 log is because they are specialists in regional human trafficking.

I'd be interested in seeing a link for this.

 

[pepper 34]

That access road is also quite visible from Route 8 after a fairly short distance by going west but not before you come to 12th street. They could have parked out behind the house and drove west to 12th street or east to 13th street and headed north which would have allowed them to avoid Route 8 altogether but would have added a rough trip through the woods... but they might have felt it was worth it because they could also avoid LE by going through the woods. Naturally LE had to have been very occupied for some length of time inside the house.

 

[Jabarn]

*** Long Post Alert ***
I had lunch with some LE today (not from WI, not involved or really even aware of this case). We discussed and I tried to get their opinion, specifically something I might have overlooked or incorrectly assumed. Not sure if any of this is relevant, but here are a few of the thoughts that came from the discussion.

Re the Dispatch Log and “possible suicide attempt” comment: Dispatch log should be considered to be notes of the communication at the time, not a full transcript. There’s going to be a lot of radio communication that log does not reflect. Notable that the first unit would advise that they are arriving at the scene and approaching the house. This officer would absolutely not just charge right in even if the door was wide open. It would be standard procedure to advise what can be seen as the officer approaches and evaluate whether it’s safe to approach and enter. That’s probably significant in that it’s unknown to us where the officer was when he observed the “man down” and reported “possible suicide attempt.” At that point, with no real threat assessment, this first officer would likely not enter until backup arrives to clear the house. More info would come in as more officers arrived to access the situation.

A good question that came up: I’ve assumed that since LE is confident that Jayme was present she must have been in bed sleeping (as I would expect a child her age to be at that time on a school night). That may be a bad assumption. I don’t know that she was asleep, I don’t know that she was in her room, I don’t even know that she was home prior to the assault. There’s a whole lot there that I’m assuming. LE almost certainly knows at this point, but I don’t.

I’m also assuming that the assailants arrived via a car pulling into the driveway and the assault in the house began with the first shots, probably the two shots that the neighbors reported hearing. But again, I’m not privy to the details I would need to ascertain that. I can’t rule out that perhaps the assailants were already there. That perhaps they were dropped off near the house and approached on foot. That maybe they were friends of James and they were hanging outside, maybe those shots were just rural folks shooting for any number of reasons before there was any intent to assault. I guess it’s even possible that the assailants arrived with Jayme (or James, or Denise) since I know nothing about where everybody was prior to the assault.

My takeaway: there’s so much about this case that just doesn’t seem to fit any plausible scenario. But that may well be because I’ve made a lot of assumptions - if any of those assumptions are wrong, that changes everything. With that I’m sure LE has a more complete picture than I do. They may not have named a suspect or released any significant details, but maybe my final assumption - that LE is as stumped as I am - is also incorrect.

Thanks for the long post because, mainly, it pulls together some important points, and also those that don’t seem to make sense on the information we have from media accounts (which seem to be the information LE is willing to share with the public).

I would also think Jayme was in bed and asleep. She did have school the next day, which has been fairly cleared up by posters here.

Thank you!

 

[Mark111]

Lord, as another day comes to a close in the search for this young child, we continue our pleas for her safe return.

 

[Jabarn]

That access road is also quite visible from Route 8 after a fairly short distance by going west but not before you come to 12th street. They could have parked out behind the house and drove west to 12th street or east to 13th street and headed north which would have allowed them to avoid Route 8 altogether but would have added a rough trip through the woods... but they might have felt it was worth it because they could also avoid LE by going through the woods. Naturally LE had to have been very occupied for some length of time inside the house.

I think an alternate access to the house without pulling into the driveway is important. It does suggest more careful planning of a sabotage.

Pulling directly into the driveway vs parking away from the home doesn’t negate a planned attack, but does *perhaps* open up a conversation regarding a pure rage attack vs. a methodical and more planned attack. Thinking. There has to be something that makes sense, but I am not finding it at all.

 

[Andreee]

A 20 YO woman disappeared from a bar parking lot here early 80s. Remains found six years later, four miles give or take from the bar. I know people who walked a trail within ten yards of her. A hunter setting up a raised deer stand saw her. Never solved.

Yes, we hear about this scenario time and time again! I think it is well worth rechecking over previously searched land. For all we know, Jayme did escape the horrifying murder scene, perhaps even injured, hence the 20 minute gap where the murderer searched outside for her.

 

[Abba's Tears]

How long can the perp/s hold this on their concious, without losing sleep, or their sanity?
How long before someone they know takes notice that something just isn't right and it niggles away at them with every breath they take,and every second that ticks by. Before they call with that one tip?
Tick Tock, Tick Tock.
They can't keep this up forever.

Sadly, some people have no conscientious at all. There are those who seem to easily live with horrific things for great lengths of time. We must depend on those who are the noticers; those who see or hear that something isn't right, and who have the courage to act on it.
"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing."
Edmund Burke

 

[pepper 34]

I like that LE has searched with a helicoptor again. A perp might be more confident dumping evidence in an already-searched area thinking no one would look there again.
JMO.
I, too, think the LE has far more evidence/info than we suspect, and they’re working to fit all the pieces together as someone above suggested.
So frustrating not knowing! And trying very hard to stay hopeful!

I also think LE knows a lot more than they are saying. In fact, I think the sheriff is "playing dumb" to put the killer's mind at ease... let him think LE is going nowhere in circles and has no idea what's up. FBI could have advised this tactic. Every time the sheriff says anything in public, he knows he is also speaking directly to the killer... there could be "a method to his madness." Money is tight for LE yet helicopters use a lot of fuel and someone has to be paid to fly it. That can't be cheap. I think not making a public announcement that all can stop looking for the vehicles is also due to the fact that LE has located them or they know, for a fact, they are not involved. The business of "oh, we're still looking for some red car.. we're working on it" just rings about as true as nothing to me.

 

[Jabarn]

Yes, we hear about this scenario time and time again! I think it is well worth rechecking over previously searched land. For all we know, Jayme did escape the horrifying murder scene, perhaps even injured, hence the 20 minute gap where the murderer searched outside for her.

I wonder about the gap, too, from the 911 call, and what appears a 2-3 minute window of time before the first responders arrived from when the call was made. It is important to note, the first responders weren’t sent until after the 911 call ended, and apparently, from what I can tell, the 911 operator listened a while before the responders were sent. In the end, whether it is was just a couple of minutes, or 8 minutes, the 911 operator did well and the responders were there quickly.

Not ready to speculate on how the killer(s) got out so quickly without being caught.

IMO.

 

[Jabarn]

I was convinced of this, too, but now I'm not so sure because of this return visit by helicopter to the area north of Jayme's house. If I had a car and I wanted to avoid LE who had been called by 911, I would get in that car and be gone so fast and so far... but, LE has spent so much time not far away at all... right out back of that house and even came back to investigate by helicopter again... to see if anything had changed. Now, I'm wondering very much what LE knows that has them, it seems, fairly sure that the farmland out back... the access road, etc... are somehow very important in verifying some theory they have. That access road, iirc, gives access to the backs of all the properties / houses and out buildings on Route 8 for quite some distance going east and west...

I think what is means is there is some thought they couldn’t have gone too far, and even with 2000 volunteers searching the fields and woods, the volunteers may have missed something. I think it is smart that decision was made. It may not work out in finding Jayme, but, at the same time, it covers every evidentiality.

They still may miss something from the helicopter, and hope the mention of the ground search being stopped, doesn’t mean the grounds around the home aren’t looked at by more on foot as the trees clear going forward.

 

[human]

Same as in Australia by the sound of it. Our certification was all US issued too

I was very impressed with the professionalism of the training, It is far more than answering the phone.

 

[Andreee]

I wonder about the gap, too, from the 911 call, and what appears a 2-3 minute window of time before the first responders arrived from when the call was made. It is important to note, the first responders weren’t sent until after the 911 call ended, and apparently, from what I can tell, the 911 operator listened a while before the responders were sent. In the end, whether it is was just a couple of minutes, or 8 minutes, the 911 operator did well and the responders were there quickly.

Not ready to speculate on how the killer(s) got out so quickly without being caught.

IMO.

I was under the impression that basically as soon as a 911 call is received, that almost immediately police are sent to an address that comes up on screen right away. Maybe not as I thought?

 

[Abba's Tears]

I was very impressed with the professionalism of the training, It is far more than answering the phone.

Most people have no idea of the depth of training and professionalism necessary to be proficient in emergency telecommunications. It is indeed so much more than answering the phone. It also takes a toll, not unlike other public safety careers. Hearing the agony of others without being able to physically assist them is it's own kind of hell.