AMBER ALERT WI - Jayme Closs, 13, Barron, missing after parents found shot, 15 Oct 2018 *endangered* #21

[Gardener1850]

type of barrel on gun. shotguns specifically might not be rifled. it is the barrel that leaves the markings on bullets that can id it back to a gun.

Ok, I see. So you are thinking only a shotgun would cause that type of damage?

 

[SharonNeedles]

I agree it would have to be a shotgun to not be rifled. but if it is a slug then I assumed shotgun.

Ah, I get what you’re saying. Some people use the term “slug” interchangeably for “bullet”. A shotgun slug would have ripped that chair in half.

 

[SharonNeedles]

Ok, I see. So you are thinking only a shotgun would cause that type of damage?

No, I’m thinking probably a handgun. Definitely not a shotgun. And bigger than a .22 or .32. At least a 9mm.

 

[Jabarn]

It's possible that the perps planned on spending more time in the house. Or that they were banking on having plenty of time to get away after the crime at the house. We can certainly tell from the interview that they weren't there very long.

How long would it have taken LE to know that Jayme was missing if there had been no 911 call? Probably at least until school started the next morning. Leaves a lot of time for a getaway.

I hear you. It does seem based on the information today, whether there was a plan in place or not, it all went down very fast.

 

[KLM6]

I don't see a slug, nor would I expect to... But now I do think this is gunshot damage. I can see the discoloration at the point of impact, the buckling of the splintered piece on bottom, and the frayed splintering on top.
View attachment 154842
Can I change my vote please? This is a bullet.

What is the triangular piece of something at the bottom of your circle and goes to the left outside the circle?

 

[SharonNeedles]

This is where I think I see a bullet sticking up out of the chair:

I just see splintered wood. The tips of some of those frays are darker with the finish from the surface of the wood.

 

[1987]

Ah, I get what you’re saying. Some people use the term “slug” interchangeably for “bullet”. A shotgun slug would have ripped that chair in half.

I agree unless it had already gone threw a wall or door.

 

[Jabarn]

Ah, I get what you’re saying. Some people use the term “slug” interchangeably for “bullet”. A shotgun slug would have ripped that chair in half.

The damage to the chair is apparent, and it does look like a a charge of some force went through it to cause the wood to spur out in such a way, yet in the great scheme of the damage to the chair, it is a small portion and the entirety of the chair is still in place. Does make me wonder what buckshot would do if the chair was hit randomly. I am thinking if it was the intended target (or someone sitting in it), you would see that kind of expulsion of wood on other parts of the chair. What do you think? TIA.

 

[Gardener1850]

Ah, I get what you’re saying. Some people use the term “slug” interchangeably for “bullet”. A shotgun slug would have ripped that chair in half.

I think that's where I'm getting my wires crossed here, lol. I consider slug a slang term for a fired round/bullet. Bullet and slug are essentially the same thing in my mind. But I see now that others use it mainly only for shotguns? Is that the gist of it? I don't think it's a shotgun slug either.

 

[cody22]

I don't see a slug, nor would I expect to... But now I do think this is gunshot damage. I can see the discoloration at the point of impact, the buckling of the splintered piece on bottom, and the frayed splintering on top.
View attachment 154842
Can I change my vote please? This is a bullet.

It looks like the base of a bullet showing possibly, and that it knocked a fairly large triangular piece of wood, from the front edge backwards, on the bottom of that chair....Nice photo. Thank you for sharing it.

 

[SharonNeedles]

What is the triangular piece of something at the bottom of your circle and goes to the left outside the circle?

Not sure what you’re talking about... the broken red line I drew as the trajectory I’m seeing, I didn’t notice anything in the area you’re talking about.

ETA: are you talking about the area where a chunk of wood is missing?

 

[cody22]

I not following, what do you mean by "ballistics are out" ?

Shotgun pellets have no rifling marks from the interior of a smooth barrel. Shotgun shell casings can have firing pin and ejector marks.

 

[KLM6]

Not sure what you’re talking about... the broken red line I drew as the trajectory I’m seeing, I didn’t notice anything in the area you’re talking about.

ETA: are you talking about the area where a chunk of wood is missing?

I went to circle it and I guess its a chunk out of the chair? Its like a triangle piece.

 

[1987]

Shotgun pellets have no rifling marks from the interior of a smooth barrel. Shotgun shell casings can have firing pin and ejector marks.

and shotgun slugs and home protection shot from the same smooth barrel also don't have marks but do have the same other marks the casings can have.

 

[SharonNeedles]

The damage to the chair is apparent, and it does look like a a charge of some force went through it to cause the wood to spur out in such a way, yet in the great scheme of the damage to the chair, it is a small portion and the entirety of the chair is still in place. Does make me wonder what buckshot would do if the chair was hit randomly. I am thinking if it was the intended target (or someone sitting in it), you would see that kind of expulsion of wood on other parts of the chair. What do you think? TIA.

Buck shot at close range would hold a tight pattern, I would expect to see a lot more damage where other shots hit as well. Also, buckshot would likely be just lead and leave a distinctly grey ring of discoloration.

 

[cluciano63]

I doubt the crime scene would have been discovered until the school had made a few calls and someone finally checked the house, unless one of the parents had the early shift. And even then, it probably would be an hour or two after schdule time before worry really set in. So a good 9+ hour lead?

Yet it does not seem to matter...4 minutes or 9 hours...jmo

 

[Jabarn]

Buck shot at close range would hold a tight pattern, I would expect to see a lot more damage where other shots hit as well. Also, buckshot would likely be just lead and leave a distinctly grey ring of discoloration.

Thank you! What would buck shot look like shot from a distance? Say 10 feet or so. Just thinking.

ETA: just googled the difference between birdshot and buckshot.

 

[SharonNeedles]

and shotgun slugs and home protection shot from the same smooth barrel also don't have marks but do have the same other marks the casings can have.

Although that is correct, the damage you see on that chair is definitely not from a shotgun.

 

[KLM6]

It looks like the base of a bullet showing possibly, and that it knocked a fairly large triangular piece of wood, from the front edge backwards, on the bottom of that chair....Nice photo. Thank you for sharing it.

Yes, this is what I saw. I didnt realize at first it was a piece of the chair. It looked like something stuck in the chair to me. But I see it as wood from the chair now.

 

[cody22]

Although that is correct, the damage you see on that chair is definitely not from a shotgun.

Yes sir....this is sure feeling like a handgun crime, thanks to that great chair edge photo.