AMBER ALERT WI - Jayme Closs, 13, Barron, missing after parents found shot, 15 Oct 2018 *endangered* #21

[tiffkinsadder]

I come to see if there are any leads or Jayme has been found (Hania and Karlie too), my heart sinks, very discouraging. These sort of crimes are an epidemic.

 

[cody22]

You mean like us?

I am innocent. I was in a Mollie Tibbets PM at the time. We had a mere 16 possible suspects and we were wrong about all of them.........

 

[Caylee Advocate]

Ok. I just did a 180°.
I was completely discounting any connection to the girls in Delphi, until now and this is why.

"James Closs worked in the plant area that deboned turkeys, and he delivered meat orders that Ruffin would weigh for shipping."
Hundreds turn out to remember parents of missing Wisconsin teen Jayme Closs
Turkey trailer takes bit of a tumble

Now, James probably delivered locally as we haven't heard any indication that he drove a semi out of state to deliver turkey, but that doesn't mean that he didn't know people who did drive semis for Jenni-O.
Even if it was a 3rd party that delivered the Turkey on long hauls, 27 years at the same place of business, one would get to know the "regulars" that hauled the meat.
This theory that there is a chance that they are connected is growing legs in my mind!

The photo is just for proof of semis being used for delivery from Jennie-O
View attachment 155139

IMO, he delivered them internally to a different section in the Jennie-O plant. He worked in de-boning and Ms. Ruffin in weighing them, at least that's how I see it but I could be wrong.

 

[OhThatVictoria]

There's no type. Young girls can and do conceal crushes & bf's from parents esp. if the parents are strict.
She looks very young and innocent as she is very young, but she could still have a secret bf. I want to make it very clear in no shape or form would this make her guilty still a child and a victim.

Jayme could have also visited social media sites that live stream (like YouNow) and gotten into a convo with someone. For the uninitiated, YouNow enables anyone with a phone/tablet/computer cam to livestream their own “show” (if you will). The person livestreaming appears on-screen in a window and there is a chat feature where others watch in a “room” setting. The fun of it is that viewers interact with the live streamer. The live-streamer can also invite another member to share the feed with them and it becomes a split video screen.

In 2015, YouNow boasted 150,000 live streams per day. I’m sure the numbers are higher now. Some of these livestreams are done by YouTube celebs to expand their reach / popularity, some broadcasts are music shows, some are kittens playing . . . You name it, people broadcast it. This is a very popular site with teens (and kids) who tend to “follow” their favorite broadcasters. There are also a lot of bored kids, home alone, talking to each other. Unfortunately, it’s fertile ground for pedos and stalkers. Even an innocent kid, lurking online just watching one of the broadcasts, could be lured into chatting either on-screen and/or in private message. If it’s someone they trust, it can morph into grooming and real time / real life disclosures and eventually a relationship.

I’m confident that LE is all over Jayme’s social media footprint by now and tracking the places she frequented. As someone who has observed this stuff for a while, Parents really need to monitor what their kids are doing in their bedrooms, and also what they are doing when they are over at a friend’s house. Parents need to share this type of info and yes, spy on your kids, know what APPS they are using, (ok, me on a soapbox).

There are so many possibilities in this case, it’s mind boggling. Much respect to LE and what they have to sift through !
Edited for spelling !

 

[mtnlites]

To be fair, Romeo killed Juliet's cousin Tybalt...

Yes, he did. But my point was that the topic of the Dierks Bentley song is not a new one.

 

[mtnlites]

Kids switching a school is a very big deal. Very big. This should be examined further IMHO.

I think so, too. When my son started kindergarten, we lived across the road from his school. A year later, we bought a house 45 minutes away. For the next 4 years we drove him back and forth (45 minutes one way, twice a day) so that he wouldn't have to switch school. He had friends, he liked his teachers, etc. We considered switching him, because it would've been more convenient for us, but we didn't want to disrupt him.

In my experience, parents don't generally switch schools for their kid unless there is a very good reason: an incident at the school that unsettled the parents, bullying, a teacher giving the child a hard time, moving far away, etc.

 

[tmar]

I come to see if there are any leads or Jayme has been found (Hania and Karlie too), my heart sinks, very discouraging. These sort of crimes are an epidemic.

I do the same tiffkinsadder.

Each morning I check Threads, hoping the criminals are arrested.
Often, I hear the same conversations, hoping we find something positive.
I wish to thank the dedicated Posters, out Sleuthing, in the chance something may be discovered to solve this, and many other cases.
All around us, everywhere, these murders are happening, and I am wondering, are they increasing in frequency, or is it due to Media, we are just more aware.

 

[Regit]

Dropped in hoping for good news. I keep thinking how if she is found safely, how awful it is going to be for her that her parents are gone, and she has no siblings. It sounded like they were close to extended family. So I hope she has close relatives that will advocate for her to stay in the news and keep people searching for her, and provide her a loving supportive home if she is found.

 

[Bugurl747]

At age 13, Jayme is considered a teenager not a child. As a teenager, she should be responsible for completing her homework. She ran cross-country which is finished by mid-October. What other activities was she in? Dance was not connected to school.

This is a fair topic to debate, is a young teenager considered a child?


I think there are a lot of variables that come into play regarding this such as nature vs nurture, mental/emotional/psychosocial development and maturity, societal norms, cultural variables, etc.

For semantics sake:

Per Oxford Dictionary, child is defined as

*A young human being below the age of puberty or below the legal age of majority.
*An immature or irresponsible person.
*A person who has little or no experience in a particular area
child | Definition of child in English by Oxford Dictionaries​

Per the American Academy of Pediatrics, a thirteen year old is considered a child that just graduated from a vehicular booster seat.
Child Passenger Safety

The CDC describes children between the ages of 12-14 as young teens
Young Teens (12-14 years old) | Child Development | NCBDDD | CDC

In other countries, a thirteen year old is married and has birthed children.

I can go back and forth on endless scenarios that could prove childhood is subjective.

With all of that being said, IMO and mere speculation, Jayme is a child.

 

[tiffkinsadder]

I keep going back to the neighbors hearing gun shots. I know the Sherriff said they are wrong about what time they heard them, but still...and I wish they would have looked out the window. #FindJayme

 

[oceanblueeyes]

If this was targeted...as seems most likely imo, why should locals be in such fear? And if random, how on earth would anyone know enough to be in fear of telling anything? I don’t get it. If people are afraid of talking to LE, imo they usually have other reasons. Unrelated to the crime being investigated. Jmo

Has Sheriff Fitzgerald told the community this family was soecifically targeted meaning by someone they knew? If not..I think anyone in any community would be afraid until its solved and the killer and abductor apprehended.

This is commonly said by the residents when something like this happens.

If it was a random target that would instill even more fear in everyone living there.

They know two parents of a good family have been brutally nurdered and their only daughter has been taken.

Imo they're thinking if it can happened to them then it can happen to any one of them. That mere thought would strike fear in them all.

I believe both type of offenders are just as likely as either one in this case. Done by a stranger or someone they knew even casually.

The police wouldnt even have to tell me to be extra safe knowing it could be anyone since they are still out there at large somewhere knowing they have nothing to lose now if they commit more violent crimes.

The ones who actually may know something may fear for their own lives if they come forward.

The only ones who may have pertinent information as to who may have done this would have to hang around the suspect.

In so many unsolved cases some for years or decades which were solved only when someone finally came forward with what they had known for so long.

It usually takes a complete break in the relationship between the suspect and who he or she confided in back when it all happened.

That is how Isabel Celis' case was finally solved 6 years after she had been kidnapped from her home..raped and murdered in 2012. The suspect's girlfriend finally contacted the FBI.

Isabel's unsolved case went on for many years where the majority of all crime blog posters were certain the suspect was her own parent only to be completely wrong. Isabel Celis' suspect was a registered sex offender who by then had done the very same thing to another child....Maribel Gonzalez in the same town.

So both options remain wide open for me in this case at this time.

Jmo

 

[Pennysmom1]

At age 13, Jayme is considered a teenager not a child. As a teenager, she should be responsible for completing her homework. She ran cross-country which is finished by mid-October. What other activities was she in? Dance was not connected to school.

I'm guessing she IS capable of completing her homework. I think part of the reason for going to her aunt's/caretaker's house, could be that she may have cousins her age she could hang out with. Since she didn't have siblings of her own, I would think she (and her parents) would prefer an place for her with other children rather than home alone.

 

[Stunned]

In his radio interview, interesting to note that the Sheriff did not mention that the gunshots were heard by neighbors at 12:31AM relative to the response time of the 911 call. When asked about DNA left at the crime scene, his response related to the short amount of time (four minutes) that the bad guy(s) had at the home . . . Essentially he shortened the timeline to four minutes for the crime to occur / perp(s) in the home. Anyone else pick up on that or do I need to go back and listen again? (It was late last night when I listened :/ )

Edited for grammar

I think there could have been more until it woke them up. Unless they were awake and alert already.

 

[JenniD]

Had some thoughts about a few things and want to bring them up.
1 Do we know that James worked the 2nd shift st Jenni-O? Seems there is a lot is speculation that he was working the evening of the murders because he did not attend the birthday party and DC said he was working . Maybe he worked day shift and if the birthday party was mid afternoon he may have still been working. And maybe working didn't necessarily mean at the plant- he may have been doing stuff around the house to get ready for winter. If that is the case it might explain the odd way and location that his his red pickup was parked. Maybe he was hauling brush, pulling the garden? A day shift also makes more sense of the coworkers comment at the funeral regarding James sometimes taking the day off after a Packers game

2. If James did not work the evenings of the murders then he may have been at home and not arriving home around the time of the gunshots. Additionally maybe LE indicated he answered the door that night - could he have already been in bed and dressed in his pajamas?
3 as for the who and why- I am clueless. I did see where Fitzgerald said the FBI is watching who is watching. OMG I just did an online subscription to the Barron newspaper so I didn't have to mess with those paywalls and could get the locals newspapers perspective. Hope the FBI doesn't come knocking on my door. I live 3 states away!

Anyway just bringing up a few points that might be worth considering
MOO

 

[Pennysmom1]

There's no type. Young girls can and do conceal crushes & bf's from parents esp. if the parents are strict.
She looks very young and innocent as she is very young, but she could still have a secret bf. I want to make it very clear in no shape or form would this make her guilty still a child and a victim.

I agree with this...I remember going to summer camp at age 12, and having a crush on a 16 yr old councelor. Very, very innocent and I was a shy girl! He didn't give me the time of day. BUT if he had, or flattered me in any way, I could maybe have an interest that I would keep from my parents. I guess what I am saying is, I don't believe Jayme had a full-on older "boyfriend", but if one took interest in her and flirted a little, maybe she did have contact with someone older who her parents didn't know about.

 

[debirlfan]

The intruder was not a boy, but a man in his 30's. Police Chief assured the public in his last interview that this man was cleared. He has a history of stealing women's clothing -- more specifically undergarments. He did not steal change of clothing for Jayme.

I do hope that police asked the panty thief if anyone mentioned the missing girl to him. If a perp was familiar with his fetish, a casual mention of the case and that Jayme's clothes would have been left behind could have triggered his robbery attempt - and the perp might have "suggested" it to him in hopes of muddying the case and possibly to see how closely they were watching the case. Panty robber could have been "put up to it" without even realizing it.

 

[Andreee]

I don't think she was shot in the yard, I believe she ran into the woods and was shot there. Like I said, I hope I'm wrong, but it would explain the 20 mins between the shot being heard by the neighbors and 911 call. If the intruder shot Denise and then spent time running after Jayme and shot her in the woods(the shot the neighbors heard), then returned to the home to find Denise had attempted to call 911 but was too injured to speak, disconnect the call and shoot her again and leave.
Most people don't sleep with their phones by their beds. I know mine is typically either dead in the bottom of my purse or on a charger in another room. If someone bangs on the door, your husband gets up out of bed to see what's going on, you hear a commotion and you run out and get shot. You yell to awaken your daughter and tell her to run, and then you attempt to find your phone. If you're shot and injured, it may take time to get it and if you're losing consciousness you may not be able to say much, especially if the intruder returns to the home and you're fumbling with the phone with him. It's all conjecture, but I haven't yet come up with a scenario where Jayme is the target for an abduction. There are easier ways to abduct a child without a double homicide. Even breaking into the home during the night and grabbing her through a window makes more sense than breaking down the front door and killing two able bodied adults.

That would certainly explain the 20 minutes. If there was a body of water within that time frame...
At any rate, perhaps this murderer thinks he is saving Jayme from something she either told him or is something conjured in his own mind. And I think I can safely say that this was a 'he' if a lone killer, which is about all I'm certain about!

 

[1987]

<modsnip - quoted post removed>

this is kind of off topic, but also kind of part of it, part of potential prevention for the next ones and there will be next ones with no way to know who it might be, maybe me or you even. I know every ones budgets don't allow for security systems, but if your budget does allow for it at least consider it. after you learn it it does give a lot of peace. I know if someone gets in to me and my family the police are comeing even if I cant call 911 and my cameras will at least point to who even if I cant.

 

[Seattle1]

That is how Isabel Celis' case was finally solved 6 years after she had been kidnapped from her home..raped and murdered in 2012. The suspect's girlfriend finally contacted the FBI.

Actually, there's no evidence that Isabel was raped. Only a handful of Isabel Celis bones were located, and cause of death could not be determined. However, I do believe sexual assault was the motive.

 

[Jabarn]

Has Sheriff Fitzgerald told the community this family was soecifically targeted meaning by someone they knew? If not..I think anyone in any community would be afraid until its solved and the killer and abductor apprehended.

This is commonly said by the residents when something like this happens.

If it was a random target that would instill even more fear in everyone living there.

They know two parents of a good family have been brutally nurdered and their only daughter has been taken.

Imo they're thinking if it can happened to them then it can happen to any one of them. That mere thought would strike fear in them all.

I believe both type of offenders are just as likely as either one in this case. Done by a stranger or someone they knew even casually.

The police wouldnt even have to tell me to be extra safe knowing it could be anyone since they are still out there at large somewhere knowing they have nothing to lose now if they commit more violent crimes.

The ones who actually may know something may fear for their own lives if they come forward.

The only ones who may have pertinent information as to who may have done this would have to hang around the suspect.

In so many unsolved cases some for years or decades which were solved only when someone finally came forward with what they had known for so long.

It usually takes a complete break in the relationship between the suspect and who he or she confided in back when it all happened.

That is how Isabel Celis' case was finally solved 6 years after she had been kidnapped from her home..raped and murdered in 2012. The suspect's girlfriend finally contacted the FBI.

Isabel's unsolved case went on for many years where the majority of all crime blog posters were certain the suspect was her own parent only to be completely wrong. Isabel Celis' suspect was a registered sex offender who by then had done the very same thing to another child....Maribel Gonzalez in the same town.

So both options remain wide open for me in this case at this time.

Jmo

Hey there Ocean BE,

That is important, everything you wrote.

I know it imortant to think about a a spectrum of the relationship with the killer and the family- someone watching from a distance, a casual acquaintance, a person from a closer point of view than a casual acquaintance, or a firm relationship with any of the family members.

That spectrum is important.

On the low end of this spectrum is no prior knowledge of anyone in the family graduating to an awareness of their comings and goings and on to the high end of the spectrum, a direct familiarity with one or all family members.

I tend to think this crime tends toward the low end of the spectrum of acquaintance. IMO.