AMBER ALERT WI - Jayme Closs, 13, Barron, missing after parents found shot, 15 Oct 2018 *endangered* #24

[Thisiove]

You may still, 'because LE has not verified it', and no one has seen the actual door close enough to know if it was shot or not. But the aunt was quoted very early on saying that the door had been shot. So Ive always kind of believed her, and havent been very popular when I mention it either.

We have seen the door though. It wasn’t riddled but looked like the lock was either shot or broken from being kicked in at the dead bolt area.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

Except...it is five weeks later. Not smart maybe but quite lucky.

Have been thinking about all of the murders I am aware of committed by teens or youngish males of adults, and one thing they have in common is that it was immediately apparent who the perp(s) was. So that holds me back from my initial theory of some wild-eyed youth with a violent temper charging in to claim Jayme. The more time that has passed, the less likely to me that this was a crime by a young person (i.e under 21, say.) They are just not good at covering their tracks. All jmo

True and often young killers cant keep their mouths shut.

They often brag to others about what they have done. Even more so if they think they are getting away with it.

 

[Quill]

I'm not even sure what your post said, I just quoted it because I got to the end of the thread and didn't feel like going back and looking for one that was talking about how devastating the loss was going to be for the company. I saw that you had responded to a post about the subject, and should have read it more closely. I probably would have been inclined to apologize for choosing the wrong post to quote if it hadn't been for that last comment. After all, even on Websleuths, mistakes are made: like it or not. MOO

I meant no ill will towards you and I am afraid you have misinterpreted. I was just trying to make clear what I was trying to say. I also didn't feel in any way that I needed an apology from you, sorry for any confusion. I apparently whiffed a kick somewhere in that discussion.

 

[Quill]

IMHO one of the many great things about Websleuths is that we all have different perspectives, and discussing them here allows us to take a peek at things from different angles. I think it is so fascinating that different aspects of this horrible crime interest us. Things that intrigue me are not always things that intrigue others, while some topics here made my eyes glaze over. So if my posts about salmonella at the Jennie-O plant make any of you feel like I did about the discussion regarding the splintered chair, I tell you what worked for me when I came upon those: scrolling and rolling right on past those. While I had no interest in the chair details, lots of others did. It would be wrong of me, and frankly against TOS to tell them to stop posting about it. I think the same is true about these speculations about salmonella at the Jennie-O plant. We are all frustrated and very very afraid for Jayme’s safety, and so we chatter about something to keep her in the forefront. Let’s not turn those feelings into intolerance of each other’s area of interest. Again, just my humble opinion.

I have been here a long time and I appreciate this sentiment. Thank you.

 

[Le Singe]

Sheriff Fitzgerald keeping hope Jayme Closs is still alive, calls it the worst crime in county history

Were the dogs used actual Trace dogs? That matters from what I’ve read.

And when will the profile be released? Scant as it is.

imo I've seen profiles released that ended up doing more harm than good (derrick todd lee case). The profile is simply a tool for trained LE to use to prioritize certain avenues of investigation. People that are not trained, i.e. the general public, tend to look at the profile as if it was a factual certainty. They stop looking for anyone that doesn't match the profile %100 and don't call in tips on those peoples. IMO only, I understand why you say it should be released I'm just giving the other side of the story so to speak.

 

[Mandrew]

How far, have other killers (of similar crimes) gonr to dispose of bodies? I ask because I spent a lot of summers in my youth in North Minnesota and the UP. The UP copper mines are about 3 and a half hours from Rice Lake, WI, and the taconite (iron) Mesabi range is about 3 hours from Rice Lake.

I was always awed by the vastness of these open pit mines but now, almost all are not functioning, it would certainly be easy to dump a body there and have it go unfound for years or never found.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

I had a thought which is probably not important even if it does end up being right. I never looked very closely at the chair, and I dislike guns enough that I'm not real familiar with what the damage one did would look like (I can't stand loud noises), so I may be way off base again. I was just thinking about Molly and wondered if she may have been barking at the guy from under the chair and he shot at her, hitting the chair instead. I hate to make it sound like she's to blame for anything, but is it possible that Jayme had managed to stay out of sight, got her mother's phone and hid (maybe in her parents' closet after getting the phone), but Molly came looking for her when the guy went after her. Some of the disturbance they heard could have been the guy yelling at Molly (maybe not by name if he didn't know them) and banging things around. She may have tried to stay quiet to keep him from knowing she was there, but Molly might whimper because she's afraid; once he opened the closet door all the way, he could have see her, pull her out and drag her out of the closet and the room. She would probably start yelling for help knowing the phone was still connected to 911, but Molly could have accidentally cut off the call while trying to hide better ... sorry Molly for making you the fall guy.

Unfortunately that doesn't get us any closer to knowing who did it or why, or where he took her even if it did happen that way. I just thought if I document what I'm thinking, it might help my mind get more organized so I can possibly come up with something useful. MOO

All possibilities. Except I do not think Jayme had the phone in her hand.

The phone used was found in close proximity of both parents. Fitzgerald said he thinks the phone may have been kicked and just happened to land closer to Denise's body than Jim's.

That means to me the phone was found in the general location where both Denise and Jim's bodies were found.

Fitzgerald said the commotion heard on the call seem to come from another room from where the phone was located. It was the room Jayme was in. Imo

Imo this is when the suspect turned to Jayme after killing both parents and that is what is being overheard on Denise's phone located in the area she and Jim were in.

I dont think Jayme even knew her mom had tried to call 911 nor knew it did connect to the dispatcher.

I think this poor frightened traumatized child was just screaming for someone. ....anyone to help her hoping she could be heard outside.

Jmo

 

[BlinkOfAnI]

WATCH – One Month Missing: The Closs Mystery special report

@BlinkOfAnI i think it’s this one- i didn’t rewatch it though- solely going off memory...for what that’s worth...memory and all

Thank you! Saw it at approx. 4:56

 

[Mistermagoo]

I DO NOT think that Salmonella has anything to do with this. I will not rule out something that may have happened at work though. With that being said, you would think that someone would lead LE in the right direction with some sort of a tip ( i.e. "Bob would always tell me he hated James" ). I have looked, over and over to see any kind of police reports in the past regarding Jennie O. I did come up with this
http://www.cumberland-advocate.com/...iser censored*-2017-09-13-a-001 e-edition.pdf
It begins on page 5 at the bottom of column 4.

I am in no way saying this has ANYTHING to do with this but it did enlighten me that regular people can act out differently than you or I would if they were depressed or angry and it was at that Jennie O plant

 

[Charliegizmo49]

Denise was on the phone with her sister at 10:00 p.m. and at that time all the Closs's were home. It seemed to her sister everything was fine. This invasion, murder and taking Jayme all happened quickly and I believe closer to 1:00 a.m. This was at a time they would have all been vulnerable. This is another reason I think this had planning and was not a random act. Nothing was taken, except Jayme. I believe the intent was to execute her parents immediately in order to take Jayme without a fight. It didn't take long nor did it need to. Mission accomplished. The question is why did they want Jayme? There's not many options to consider with an answer to that.
all jmo imo imho

Iirc that was a text. Nope I was wrong. Sister said it was the last time she heard her voice. My apology.

 

[gipsypup]

I've just read the thread and all the news front to back and have a few things that stand out and a theory.

1. Unless I missed it... does anyone know the relation of the local tribal lands with Barron law enforcement? There are three reservations in the immediate surrounding area and I'd be curious to know if they've been spoken with and/or if they historically cooperate with local law agencies? I think this is a REALLY important consideration. If they aren't historically cooperative it could provide a really good shield for someone who is keeping Jayme.

2. All the speculation about the salmonella outbreak at Jennie-O. While it seems far fetched to think this is linked, I have to wonder. No, a company as large as Hormel isn't going to feel a huge loss from a recall of this size and the resultant law suits. HOWEVER, management will have heads rolling. There will be people terminated / blamed / etc. This could potentially cause enough conflict to drive someone to murder. Again, I think it's far fetched but possible.

3. My working theory (subject to change). I believe the perp was known to Jayme based on LE's insistence that she was endangered, not a suspect and believed 100% to be alive. Be it someone she knew or someone her parents knew. I believe the murders took place around the 1230 time frame when the neighbor likely heard the shots. (mostly because I do NOT believe they happened in the 4 minutes it took police to respond ; that four minutes was precious get away time).

The perpetrator and Jayme remained in the house (I hesitate to post speculation on what was happening in this time but they could have been panicked, arguing or the perp could have been assaulting Jayme). Jayme seizes an opportunity and gets ahold of her mothers phone somehow, dialing 911. The perpetrator "catches her" and this is the scuffle heard on the 911 call. I also believe that something was heard by the dispatcher that led them to believe it was a potential suicide as it was originally dispatched. Maybe a threat to Jayme " I'll kill myself!"

The perp takes Jayme and bolts knowing that police are en route. I'm just not sure how they got away. My gut (with little to support it) is that it wasn't by car. There are likely a lot of people that know the land there extremely well. The only supporting "evidence" I have for this gut feeling is LE searching neighbors home. Makes me believe that they may have suspected a "on foot" or alternative (ATV) escape. Someone may have known the perfect place to hide out.

I think a lot about theory #1 listed above. It appears to me that crimes listed on the Tribal FB that are committed on tribal land are handled only by the tribal police. There may be some interaction by LE groups, but I wonder exactly how much? Are Barron LE free to search their jurisdiction ? Do they interact fully?
There are cases throughout America where some areas base their laws on their beliefs and even have their own type of police groups. Main stream LE tend to back off these areas. Therefore , it would be easy to hide someone. Jennie -O employs a lot of people-not all local. Many different connections there. JMO.

 

[Quill]

As I said, it is a billion dollar company. They deal with fecal matter and turkeys all of the time.

Maybe the turkeys were grown in too much of an unsanitry condition. Maybe some kind of machimeey was on the fritz,

Hormel did not become a multinational company without knowing what they are doing. When dealing with animals and all of their diseases, there are bound to be issues.

One turkey that isn’t cleaned well enough could nasty up the whole batch.

I have to ask. Who in the heck eats raw turkey? I suppose people dom’t use proper cleaning techniques in the home.

As you have said, there are so many possibilities for contamination but the machinery/equipment is the area that interests me. I am thinking along the lines of proper maintenance and cleaning, but I really do not know. I am just thinking of the whole idea of links in a chain. The companies may know what they are doing and have the proper processes and protocols in place, but one weak link in that chain failing to carry out the process and protocol threatens the operation's integrity.

There have been so many recalls lately for things like e.coli and salmonella and many are not what you would think. Duncan Hines had 2.4 million boxes of cake mix recalled in the last week or so for salmonella. 2.4 million boxes, right before Thanksgiving. There was quite a bit of ground beef recalled recently as well. Pretty startling if you think about it.

 

[Le Singe]

I think a lot about theory #1 listed above. It appears to me that crimes listed on the Tribal FB that are committed on tribal land are handled only by the tribal police. There may be some interaction by LE groups, but I wonder exactly how much? Are Barron LE free to search their jurisdiction ? Do they interact fully?
There are cases throughout America where some areas base their laws on their beliefs and even have their own type of police groups. Main stream LE tend to back off these areas. Therefore , it would be easy to hide someone. Jennie -O employs a lot of people-not all local. Many different connections there. JMO.

Just to be clear i can't say I know for sure how the Tribal LE and local LE interact. BUT everyone is a human being and we are looking at a missing little girl and a double homicide. Even if there was some friction in day to day between the to groups I can't imagine that they would be anything less than cooperative in this matter. They don't want this individual living on their land either.

 

[andreww]

I agree 100 percent andreww.

They truly are the very hardest cases of all to solve.

LE cant even have a starting point to begin to know who the suspect may be.

If it is someone unknown to the victims the only hope we have that it will be solved is when they finally get the forensics back they will have a DNA profile that can be matched in CODIS.

Usually these type of criminals do have a criminal history.

I agree, this person is likely to have some sort of criminal history. Whether it would be serious enough for them to have submitted a DNA sample is another story. Unfortunately I believe this case will be at a stand still until a body is found.

 

[KLM6]

We have seen the door though. It wasn’t riddled but looked like the lock was either shot or broken from being kicked in at the dead bolt area.

Ah! Thank you. I havent seen a picture of the actual door. Is there a link?? Tia!

 

[Ravenmoon]

I am curious about something. It has been nagging at me. Please do not misinterpret anything .

The 911 phone call came from Mrs Closs' cell phone. It has been stated that there was basically only noise. My question is..how did the police know to go to the Closs residence?
Do they have the technology to be able to ping the cell phone in 4 minutes?
Was there at least a mention of the address or who was calling?
In our area, it is pretty well known that pinging a cell phone may take longer than a few minutes and that calling 911 from a cell phone does not in any way insure a rapid response from first responders.
Again.. just curious!
Maybe someone can put this together for me.

 

[Randazzo]

Do they have the technology to be able to ping the cell phone in 4 minutes?

GPS. With smartphones if you call 911 it sends the GPS location.

 

[Mistermagoo]

I am curious about something. It has been nagging at me. Please do not misinterpret anything .

The 911 phone call came from Mrs Closs' cell phone. It has been stated that there was basically only noise. My question is..how did the police know to go to the Closs residence?
Do they have the technology to be able to ping the cell phone in 4 minutes?
Was there at least a mention of the address or who was calling?
In our area, it is pretty well known that pinging a cell phone may take longer than a few minutes and that calling 911 from a cell phone does not in any way insure a rapid response from first responders.
Again.. just curious!
Maybe someone can put this together for me.

Summit911 - 911 Guidelines - Proper 911 Call Etiquette

According to this, it says when calling from a cell phone no address info is automatically provided

 

[Ravenmoon]

GPS. With smartphones if you call 911 it sends the GPS location.

Thank you. I was genuinely interested in finding out . We are rural in the area that we live, our first responders are pretty fast, but fortunate for us in this town , our emergencies are much less dire in urgency and giving an address is not an issue. ..

 

[Mistermagoo]

Summit911 - 911 Guidelines - Proper 911 Call Etiquette

According to this, it says when calling from a cell phone, no address info is automatically provided

It did say in the police dispatch that the voicemail indicated the phone lists to Denise at that address. Don't know what her voicemail said so don't know how they came to that.