AMBER ALERT WI - Jayme Closs, 13, Barron, missing after parents found shot, 15 Oct 2018 *endangered* #25

[bellyup]

Whomever walked up to the Closs house that night HAD to have suspected that James would be armed. It was a life and death risk to even go up to that front door.

I think the fact that James was likely the first shot / killed and likely immediately supports this. They weren't risking him having any opportunity to arm himself.

I think the time of approach was also carefully considered. Perhaps at the end of James shift but when he would still be awake. Watching TV or preparing a snack. To where a knock or noise at the door wouldn't immediately alarm him to arm himself (whereas 4am would make him more likely to go for his gun instead of to answer the door). Not in bed where he could have a firearm nearby.

You don't take life or death risks to kidnap a little girl who waits alone for the bus in the morning. This person wanted BOTH James and Denise dead and to take Jayme.

Now why would someone want BOTH of those things?

 

[bellyup]

The cover of night + less cars on the road + most people sleeping

I think those things would be easily navigated on that rural road. More easily navigated than confronting a very possibly armed James who very possibly isn't in bed at that time.

 

[bizzle2]

The cover of night + less cars on the road + most people sleeping

Exactly.

If your goal is to take her and get away, then doing it at night and killing her parents makes the most sense. Way too many risks during the day.

 

[bellyup]

Someone with a grudge who also happens to be a pedophile?

This would be assuming that the person has a sexual motivation.
I'm not 100% sure that's the case here. Possible, but I'm starting to lean away from that theory.

 

[Rubiconbob]

Whomever walked up to the Closs house that night HAD to have suspected that James would be armed. It was a life and death risk to even go up to that front door.

I think the fact that James was likely the first shot / killed and likely immediately supports this. They weren't risking him having any opportunity to arm himself.

I think the time of approach was also carefully considered. Perhaps at the end of James shift but when he would still be awake. Watching TV or preparing a snack. To where a knock or noise at the door wouldn't immediately alarm him to arm himself (whereas 4am would make him more likely to go for his gun instead of to answer the door). Not in bed where he could have a firearm nearby.

You don't take life or death risks to kidnap a little girl who waits alone for the bus in the morning. This person wanted BOTH James and Denise dead and to take Jayme.

Now why would someone want BOTH of those things?

I think if they knew jayme they likely new both James and Denise. Could be co worker / painter / roofer/ trucker/hunting partner/anyone.... but if they knew James and Denise and were odd or could be linked by either parent... then u would eliminate both.

 

[doktor57]

Killing the parents makes sense, as opposed to abducting Jayme from the bus stop, if you are able to do it without the victims getting a 911 call out. That way, you could be a thousand miles away before the alert goes out.

 

[bellyup]

Killing the parents makes sense, as opposed to abducting Jayme from the bus stop, if you are able to do it without the victims getting a 911 call out. That way, you could be a thousand miles away before the alert goes out.

Taking her from the bus stop could give you a lot of time too.

I agree that someone that only wanted Jayme could have decided to go in at night to give themselves more get away time or more cover. I could even see that someone decided to murder both parents to take her.

I can't see deciding to face an armed father. That's a huge risk.

 

[Nemellotus]

If kidnapping was the motive, wouldn’t the perp be able take Jayme at other times during her daily routine? School to activity etc. ? This would avoid murder. Also, the timing of this crime tells me in MOO that whoever this was, knew Mr. Closs’ work schedule. Doesn’t seem like a home invasion to take valuables or cars etc. just MOO.

 

[SharonNeedles]

Respectfully snipped for focus.
This is my primary speculation as well.
However, I was reminded of an important consideration today with the announcement of the 50-year-old Jane Britton murder case being solved! Jane was a promising anthropology student at Harvard in 1969. (Cambridge, Mass.) We had some very interesting theories on Jane's thread, and had an insider providing additional dimension. However, none of our theories were right. The Perp was a serial killer and was out hunting for prey when he spotted this pretty young co-ed. He scaled up the fire escape to get in to her dorm. This was a completely random attack. There was such an incredible signature to the murder, and such apparent ritualism, we were sure it was tied to some pagan ritual. Apparently not so. Just a demented killer.

Another interesting point that we can apply when pondering this case. The Perp in the Jane Britton case did not live in Cambridge (where the college was), but *did as a child*. The town was his old stomping grounds and he knew it well. Just something to keep in mind as we mull over probabilities.

So what I learned from today's revelation is that we must always consider the possibility of complete randomness by a serial Predator.
This type of Predator is voracious and prolific, as evidenced by the string of rapes and murders by the Perp in the Jane Britton case.
It was the same scenario in the Mollie Tibbets case - completely random Perp out hunting for prey.

Amateur opinion and speculation

The problem with speculating a serial killer is that a true signature is likely not apparent until a case is solved. In the vacuum of a single case it is often impossible to discern anything unique enough to tie it to other victims - and unless the serial killer has been at it awhile there might not be enough known victims to conclusively establish even an abiguous link.

Personally I’d consider a serial killer to be an ever present albeit very remote possibility. It would be my default theory only when all other avenues are exhausted.

 

[bellyup]

Do we have any conformation of James' schedule the day of the murders? I know I've seen it speculated that he had just gotten off of work but then I also saw he may not have worked that day.

If he had just gotten off of work it supports my idea that the time was calculated and the perp was hoping James wouldn't be armed or would be coming in , changing, set his weapon down or put it away, etc.

 

[Rubiconbob]

Killing the parents makes sense, as opposed to abducting Jayme from the bus stop, if you are able to do it without the victims getting a 911 call out. That way, you could be a thousand miles away before the alert goes out.

The perp likely planned out with some forethought.... drive by police station on evening of Crime. At 12:30 u would know if most cops coming from that direction.

Commit Crime walk out back past farm to car... you would be gone for 2 hours before cops realize they all came from same direction... not keystone cops... just well thought out by this jerk..

He would essentially know if I make out back 30 seconds ahead of cops I’m free..

 

[bizzle2]

Whomever walked up to the Closs house that night HAD to have suspected that James would be armed. It was a life and death risk to even go up to that front door.

I think the fact that James was likely the first shot / killed and likely immediately supports this. They weren't risking him having any opportunity to arm himself.

I think the time of approach was also carefully considered. Perhaps at the end of James shift but when he would still be awake. Watching TV or preparing a snack. To where a knock or noise at the door wouldn't immediately alarm him to arm himself (whereas 4am would make him more likely to go for his gun instead of to answer the door). Not in bed where he could have a firearm nearby.

You don't take life or death risks to kidnap a little girl who waits alone for the bus in the morning. This person wanted BOTH James and Denise dead and to take Jayme.

Now why would someone want BOTH of those things?

The road where she got picked up by the bus isn't really very rural. It's a US Highway. There are 6000+ cars that travel through there each day. (I don't have link, but that has been quoted many times. I believe from Wisconsin Department of Transportation data.)

That's 4 cars per minute on average. And at around 8am on a work day it is probably at least double that. That would be one car every eight seconds.

Taking her from the bus stop presents it's own risks. Lots of potential witnesses. And she'd be reported missing pretty quickly. Wouldn't give the perp much time to get away.

It really wouldn't be the least risky way to do it.

 

[Sarg]

Prolly been mentioned by some previous posters, but one reason Jayme could have been taken -- if she wasn't the original target -- is that the perp either ran out of bullets or his/her gun malfunctioned. In that scenario, the perp would likely have had to take Jayme in order that she couldn't ID him/her, particularly if the perp knew 911 had been called.

This is exactly what I believe. I don't think Jayme was the target. I think they knew 911 was called and had to get out of there immediately.

 

[bizzle2]

Do we have any conformation of James' schedule the day of the murders? I know I've seen it speculated that he had just gotten off of work but then I also saw he may not have worked that day.

If he had just gotten off of work it supports my idea that the time was calculated and the perp was hoping James wouldn't be armed or would be coming in , changing, set his weapon down or put it away, etc.

We don't know what time each arrived at the home, but we know that all three family members were home at 10pm.

 

[Rubiconbob]

Taking her from the bus stop could give you a lot of time too.

I agree that someone that only wanted Jayme could have decided to go in at night to give themselves more get away time or more cover. I could even see that someone decided to murder both parents to take her.

I can't see deciding to face an armed father. That's a huge risk.

I agree completely... that is some guts to do this... only reason I would even consider drug addict... the high risk of it..

I still think he knew family and might know guns locked up...

Or he was close to certain James would answer door then second he sees knob turn begin the plan... that’s gutsy and scary af

 

[WiseOwl]

Do we have any conformation of James' schedule the day of the murders? I know I've seen it speculated that he had just gotten off of work but then I also saw he may not have worked that day.

If he had just gotten off of work it supports my idea that the time was calculated and the perp was hoping James wouldn't be armed or would be coming in , changing, set his weapon down or put it away, etc.

He hadn't just finished work - Denise's sister phoned her around 10.00 pm that evening and confirmed that all 3 Closs family members were there at that time and everything seemed normal.

 

[girlhasnoname]

No.... Just to have a little more winning revenge.

Wow, that just gave me chills...….

 

[bellyup]

The road where she got picked up by the bus isn't really very rural. It's a US Highway. There are 6000+ cars that travel through there each day. (I don't have link, but that has been quoted many times. I believe from Wisconsin Department of Transportation data.)

That's 4 cars per minute on average. And at around 8am on a work day it is probably at least double that. That would be one car every eight seconds.

Taking her from the bus stop presents it's own risks. Lots of potential witnesses. And she'd be reported missing pretty quickly. Wouldn't give the perp much time to get away.

It really wouldn't be the least risky way to do it.

There are 6000+ cars that travel on SOME PART OF that highway every day. That's not 6000 cars that pass by the Closs house on a daily basis. I'd say it's not even close to a FRACTION of those cars that travel that particular stretch.

Maybe not the LEAST risky but certainly far less risk than staring down James gun IMO

 

[girlhasnoname]

Do we have any conformation of James' schedule the day of the murders? I know I've seen it speculated that he had just gotten off of work but then I also saw he may not have worked that day.

If he had just gotten off of work it supports my idea that the time was calculated and the perp was hoping James wouldn't be armed or would be coming in , changing, set his weapon down or put it away, etc.

He was said to have worked during the day, that being the reason he wasn't at the family gathering earlier. At 10 pm Denise spoke to her sister and all was well. Maybe James was actually asleep at 12:30 am on a Sunday night, I know I usually am.

 

[Nemellotus]

The more I think about this, it seems IMOO that the perp really hated Mr. & Mrs. Closs, emotionally hated them, passionately hated them. I think this may be a close friend or relative. IMOO. And I do think IMOO that he felt he was rescuing Jayme.....in his or her mind...it is very baffling.