AMBER ALERT WI - Jayme Closs, 13, Barron, missing after parents found shot, 15 Oct 2018 *endangered* #25

[Blueberry2720]

Is there a way to see this without paying? Every link I try tells me I have to pay to subscribe.

I understand the logic behind releasing the 911 call but I still don't agree unless there is some audible voice on it from the perp that could be used to identify them. It's been widely rumored that on the call you can actually hear a gunshot which would be Denise being murdered. If the FBI audibility experts can't discern anything from the call, then there is little to no benefit to release it to the public because we sure aren't going to be able to figure it out any better.

I just think that releasing the call is a zero sum game because all it will do is get the everyone with a speaker saying "Aha! At ___ you can clearly hear ____" and making connections that aren't there thinking they broke the case. It won't get people thinking about it in the right away. LE also could be not releasing it because it contains audio of the aforementioned gunshot and I really don't have much interest in hearing someone be murdered.

They are paid by taxpayer money to solve crimes, from like you and I. They have not solved the crime at this point and the clock keeps ticking, and Jayme is still missing and the perp is still out there imo.

I think making the entire tape public is a mistake. In the Jon Benet case, when Patsy Ramsey called 911, she didn't completely hang up the phone. Thus, there is muffled talking at the end of the call, believed to be Patsy talking to her husband and son Burke. Once the tape was released, the public went nuts trying to decipher the words and who said what. Some say Patsy incriminated herself, others say she clearly blames John and others say she blames Blake. Do a search on YouTube and you will find numerous videos by folks claiming they "solved" the seemingly unintelligible words at the end of the call. Thing is, as you listen, you will hear the same words you are told are being said . . . then you watch another video and you hear the words that that sleuth claims are being spoken. Point is, people - including you/us - hear what our minds want to hear, or in the case of these tapes, what we are "told" to hear. Power of suggestion I guess. I found it very interesting and insightful, but it only muddied the waters further because there were now so many more interpretations of the tail end of the call. If the technology pros can't decipher a call with sophistocated equipment, why do we think we can??

(edited for grammar/spelling)

 

[JaneEyre]

I think making the entire tape public is a mistake. In the Jon Benet case, when Patsy Ramsey called 911, she didn't completely hang up the phone. Thus, there is muffled talking at the end of the call, believed to be Patsy talking to her husband and son Burke. Once the tape was released, the public went nuts trying to decipher the words and who said what. Some say Patsy incriminated herself, others say she clearly blames John and others say she blames Blake. Do a search on YouTube and you will find numerous videos by folks claiming they "solved" the seemingly unintelligible words at the end of the call. Thing is, as you listen, you will hear the same words you are told are being said . . . then you watch another video and you hear the words that that sleuth claims are being spoken. Point is, people - including you/us - hear what our minds want to hear, or in the case of these tapes, what we are "told" to hear. Power of suggestion I guess. I found it very interesting and insightful, but it only muddied the waters further because there were now so many more interpretations of the tail end of the call. If the technology pros can't decipher a call with sophistocated equipment, why do we think we can??

(edited for grammar/spelling)

Yes. And every time someone suggests they release the tape, I think of that nut job who killed a Frankfort woman earlier this year because he somehow recorded her, supposedly had someone analyze background noise, and decided he had clear evidence of her and someone else sexually abusing his son. Granted, he was on drugs. But the point was that he and someone else came up with a lunatic theory because they heard what he wanted to hear - that she was a monster, and that state police were in on it. You hear what you decide happened all too often, or what you expect to hear. I can only imagine what kinds of crazy theories could be cooked up if the public heard this, and how much that would then distract from the investigation. I leave analysis of this sort of thing to LE so that the investigation can remain focused.

 

[doktor57]

More speculation: Could the video of the vehicles of interest come from the police dashcams as they responded to the 911 hangup? In other words, did the cops pass the perp as he left...with Jayme in the car?

 

[cody22]

MANY of us keep up with the case news, or lack thereof, and don't post in the absence of new developments. It does not mean we do not care just as much as those who do post about the things we all wonder about and question.

It's a matter of order. If everyone posted their current thought of the hour or even the day, these case threads for Jayme would be so dense, the moderators would have a whale of a job to do.

I'm here, I read, and my prayers are said for Jayme and her relatives every day and night with genuine hope for her.
God bless you all and good night.

^^^ This is it for me also..... Great well written post..... Happy Thanksgiving, folks.

 

[SharonNeedles]

More speculation: Could the video of the vehicles of interest come from the police dashcams as they responded to the 911 hangup? In other words, did the cops pass the perp as he left...with Jayme in the car?

I’ve wondered that as well, but I don’t think it likely. If the images were from a head on dash cam and were clear enough to provide the descriptions we have, it would be easy to distinguish between a Ford Edge and an Accura MDX. Knowing that LE was unable to distinguish which it was indicates they probably have a profile view.

 

[KLM6]

Good morning WS and Happy Thanksgiving.

Im not going to bring up my debatable theory again today (youre welcome). But, theres a couple things I would like to point out.

Its totally not fair to the case, nor acceptable in any regard, to start discounting and/or tossing out events, facts, or even quotes from the Sheriff, just because they are being used in a theory you dont believe in!

Discounting and/or disregarding these things altogether in order to prove someone wrong, isnt discrediting the person youre disagreeing with, its discrediting the most credible people we have.

Over a month into this case, Im not going to start picking and choosing which events, facts, or quotes from the Sheriff work for me, and which ones dont. Nor should anyone else.

Besides, when we discredit something, it puts in peoples minds thats its not useful, when it actually very well could be useful in some way, shape, or form). Also, when we discredit one thing, how credible does that make everything else we have?

None of us know any more than the next person, but we are each entitled to speculate our own theory. We arent all going to agree on everything, ever. So agreeing to disagree is perfectly ok.
However, disregarding parts of the case that dont fit your agenda, or discrediting LE on this case in any way just to make a point, is not.

~peace~

 

[Trino]

Just thought I would throw this into the mix...

I am reading The Real Lolita (Sep 2018) about Sally Horner, taken by Frank LaSalle in 1948. It is pretty much recognized that Vladimir Nabokov wrote Lolita (1955), based on this case, although he consistently denied it. Anyway, Sally, age 11 at disappearance, was with Frank for 21 months - 21 months (emphasis) before she went to a neighbor telling who she was. Although a nation-wide case, they lived without an attempt to hide, she appeared happy to people she encountered, and she always said Frank was her dad. What this shows is how easily a child can be manipulated.

 

[Rosiebones]

I have always entertained the idea that the door was broken by an axe, or a crowbar etc. not kicked, and that JC was hit and knocked unconscious. DC came in to see what was going on and seeing the axe, picked up that chair to hold in front of herself. She too was struck and knocked out. The perp searched for Jayme and found her. On the way out with Jayme, he saw the phone in DC's hand, he kicked it aside and shot both of them to be sure they were dead. I have thought that the gun shots were at the end of the home invasion not the start.
I wonder if the motive was someone they knew who is in dire financial trouble and approached them for help ( a loan) and snapped when he was told no. This could have happened earlier in the day.

 

[Charliegizmo49]

Good morning WS and Happy Thanksgiving.

Im not going to bring up my debatable theory again today (youre welcome). But, theres a couple things I would like to point out.

Its totally not fair to the case, nor acceptable in any regard, to start discounting and/or tossing out events, facts, or even quotes from the Sheriff, just because they are being used in a theory you dont believe in!

Discounting and/or disregarding these things altogether in order to prove someone wrong, isnt discrediting the person youre disagreeing with, its discrediting the most credible people we have.

Over a month into this case, Im not going to start picking and choosing which events, facts, or quotes from the Sheriff work for me, and which ones dont. Nor should anyone else.

Besides, when we discredit something, it puts in peoples minds thats its not useful, when it actually very well could be useful in some way, shape, or form). Also, when we discredit one thing, how credible does that make everything else we have?

None of us know any more than the next person, but we are each entitled to speculate our own theory. We arent all going to agree on everything, ever. So agreeing to disagree is perfectly ok.
However, disregarding parts of the case that dont fit your agenda, or discrediting LE on this case in any way just to make a point, is not.

~peace~

I mostly agree.

The theories table is wide open.

It could be any scenario.

But if I were family I’d begin asking investigators specifically David Marshburn to look at this. He is very good at his job.

And that takes nothing away from Sheriff Fitzgerald. Marshburn can do things LE can’t.

 

[KLM6]

Just thought I would throw this into the mix...

I am reading The Real Lolita (Sep 2018) about Sally Horner, taken by Frank LaSalle in 1948. It is pretty much recognized that Vladimir Nabokov wrote Lolita (1955), based on this case, although he consistently denied it. Anyway, Sally, age 11 at disappearance, was with Frank for 21 months - 21 months (emphasis) before she went to a neighbor telling who she was. Although a nation-wide case, they lived without an attempt to hide, she appeared happy to people she encountered, and she always said Frank was her dad. What this shows is how easily a child can be manipulated.

Reminiscent of Shawn Hornbeck. He lived in the public eye under the guise of being his kidnapper's son, with a promise to not ever reveal himself - or die. The manipulation power some people have is sad.

 

[Mistermagoo]

More speculation: Could the video of the vehicles of interest come from the police dashcams as they responded to the 911 hangup? In other words, did the cops pass the perp as he left...with Jayme in the car?

NO. Sheriff Fitzgerald has stated that the 3 initial responding officers all cam from the same direction and there was nothing in those dash cams that could help

 

[KLM6]

I mostly agree.

The theories table is wide open.

It could be any scenario.

But if I were family I’d begin asking investigators specifically David Marshburn to look at this. He is very good at his job.

And that takes nothing away from Sheriff Fitzgerald. Marshburn can do things LE can’t.

I agree. Im surprised some of them havent started doing their own investigation, of sorts. But then, maybe they are and we just dont hear about it. The media block has deterred our (us here at WS) standpoint, imo, because we dont hear much from many people. I only just came here for Mollies case, and her dad was all over the media. I felt like that helped keep our momentum going. This family is mostly quiet.

 

[bellyup]

I agree. Im surprised some of them havent started doing their own investigation, of sorts. But then, maybe they are and we just dont hear about it. The media block has deterred our (us here at WS) standpoint, imo, because we dont hear much from many people. I only just came here for Mollies case, and her dad was all over the media. I felt like that helped keep our momentum going. This family is mostly quiet.

I actually think this is a good point. I’ve followed a ton of cases on WS over many years and I’m not sure I’ve seen a family be this quiet over such a huge crime. I was hoping once shock wore off one of them would find their voice and start loudly demanding answers.

Vocal crusaders can really make a difference in the attention a case gets in social media, local news and even LE response.

 

[photographer4]

More speculation: Could the video of the vehicles of interest come from the police dashcams as they responded to the 911 hangup? In other words, did the cops pass the perp as he left...with Jayme in the car?

We were told in recent MSM reports that they checked the dash cams from police cars, but there was nothing on them of evidentiary value.

 

[bellyup]

This article talks about why the case is falling out of the media and public eye. It’s an interesting read.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.greenbaypressgazette.com/amp/1934586002

I find detective Mains contribution particularly interesting bc it supports my theory that murder was the goal ... +/- Jayme.

“If the ultimate goal was kidnapping or sex trafficking, Mains said, it wouldn't be necessary to kill the parents. You may kill them because they know who you are or because the purpose is to kill them and not the kidnapping," he said. "It is an extra, extraordinary step and it is done for a specific purpose not related to the kidnapping.”

 

[KLM6]

Not sure if this has been brought over yet.
Interesting to me, Denise's brother says they have 'a lot of gut feelings'.

Holidays tough for Jayme Closs family

 

[Elle*Bee]

We have no right to hear it imo

They are paid by taxpayer money to solve crimes, from like you and I. They have not solved the crime at this point and the clock keeps ticking, and Jayme is still missing and the perp is still out there imo.

With all due respect, SausagePizza, the 911 recording is evidence. We, the general public, do not have a right to hear it. In my opinion. If LE deems it beneficial for the public to hear it, they may release a portion or more. In the case of Abby & Libby, LE did release a tiny snippet of a recording from one of the girl’s’ cell phones in the hope that someone might recognize the man’s voice. I just don’t think we’ll see that in Jayme’s case.

 

[Lavender Moon]

Just thought I would throw this into the mix...

I am reading The Real Lolita (Sep 2018) about Sally Horner, taken by Frank LaSalle in 1948. It is pretty much recognized that Vladimir Nabokov wrote Lolita (1955), based on this case, although he consistently denied it. Anyway, Sally, age 11 at disappearance, was with Frank for 21 months - 21 months (emphasis) before she went to a neighbor telling who she was. Although a nation-wide case, they lived without an attempt to hide, she appeared happy to people she encountered, and she always said Frank was her dad. What this shows is how easily a child can be manipulated.

I have read Nabokov's Lolita several times, never knowing it was based on a true story. Thank you for this information,Trino!

 

[Rubiconbob]

This article talks about why the case is falling out of the media and public eye. It’s an interesting read.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.greenbaypressgazette.com/amp/1934586002

I find detective Mains contribution particularly interesting bc it supports my theory that murder was the goal ... +/- Jayme.

“If the ultimate goal was kidnapping or sex trafficking, Mains said, it wouldn't be necessary to kill the parents. You may kill them because they know who you are or because the purpose is to kill them and not the kidnapping," he said. "It is an extra, extraordinary step and it is done for a specific purpose not related to the kidnapping.”

Think he is spot on ... this was planned ..
Perp coulda done housework and told Denise jayme was pretty... or something odd that set off James / Denise.

Or perp new jayme never without cell phone and mom quite a lot... no real opportunity.

If goal was jayme.... almost no options but what he did.

 

[Rubiconbob]

We were told in recent MSM reports that they checked the dash cams from police cars, but there was nothing on them of evidentiary value.

Not sure. I think there from local business.. sherif said challenger wasn’t really key...(think they found driver). But other vehicle was... black suv are brutal... they are everywhere... bout as bad as saying look for Honda Accord. You would think if somebody black suv was gone for day.. or at 1 am somebody would know.